The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Handguns => Topic started by: twyacht on July 06, 2010, 08:16:56 PM
-
Just a question, or three, regarding performance and pressures (SAAMI), firing .38+P rounds in a Rossi M971 .357 Magnum.
The pressures seem very much in the safe zone:
http://www.handloads.com/misc/saami.htm
17,000 for .38
20,000 for .38+P
35,000 for .357 Magnum
.38 Special +P 158 gr (10.2 g) 1,000 ft/s (300 m/s) 351 ft·lbf (476 J) 20,000 PSI
.357 Magnum 158 grains (10.2 g) 1,349 ft/s (411 m/s) 639 ft·lbf (866 J) 35,000 PSI
Yes the .357 Magnum was/is/and will be on the "short list" for a proven SD round.
However, with bullet technology advancing rapidly, making better ballistics all around, would:
A .38+P seem practical as a SD round in a "nightstand" pistol, just to get less recoil, are there any other factors?
In a full size frame with a 4" barrel length, does it even matter?
Given energy, but harsher recoil, especially at a 3:51 a.m. scenario, what are some other options?
I have a variety of SD pistols, but prefer a revolver for simplistic reliability at home, long-term storage factors, (no mag spring wear, etc...), it just works. Middle of the night, things that go "bump", grabbing my .357, gives me no hesitation.
Just interested if someone here, has fired +P .38's in their .357 and had good results. I have fired standard .38's for practice in my .357, but interested in other opinions/experiences.
Thank you.
tw.
-
All this from a man with a Glock in .45 acp ::)
-
All this from a man with a Glock in .45 acp ::)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, but something about keeping those "poor" mag springs compressed for a while, even though I rotate mags, .....
I was just curious.
-
Yeah, yeah, yeah, but something about keeping those "poor" mag springs compressed for a while, even though I rotate mags, .....
I was just curious.
Dont over think it.
-
It works great! esspacailly with the 4in bbl. Lots of BG's have met their fate from the business end of a .38! In my 340PD their the only thing I can shoot with reliable hits. the .357mags just kick to much the 2nd to the 5th may or may not hit the target.::) But with .38+P+ I'm usually 5 for 5. ;D
-
It works great! esspacailly with the 4in bbl. Lots of BG's have met their fate from the business end of a .38! In my 340PD their the only thing I can shoot with reliable hits. the .357mags just kick to much the 2nd to the 5th may or may not hit the target.::) But with .38+P+ I'm usually 5 for 5. ;D
Solution here is .357 for the first, which will probably either do the job or be a wild miss, and then 5 .38s. POI shouldn't differ that much at ten to twenty feet.
FQ13
-
Solution here is .357 for the first, which will probably either do the job or be a wild miss, and then 5 .38s. POI shouldn't differ that much at ten to twenty feet.
FQ13
That might actually work. I'll have to take it to the range a few times to try it out.
-
Years ago I had a Taurus M66 .357 that I kept in my truck console. I loaded it with 4 rounds of .38 spl +P and 2 rounds of .357 magnum. I staged the cylinder so the magnums were the last 2 rounds. I figured if the first 4 +P's didn't take the BG out, the last 2 would either kill him if they were hits......or, deafen, blind, and scorch him enough to give up if I missed.
I really liked the recoil and accuracy of the +P's in the .357 revolver. I still do the same with my .44's.
-
Two words......."night blindness"..
I'm able to shoot at my local range until almost dark. A few cylinders of full load mags at dusk is quite a way to get someones attention. ;D
I've downloaded my snubby to .38 +p on the nightstand. I normally carry .357's during the day but it is hard to get two shots near each other on the follow up. Practice is getting tough as I can't find practice loads in .357 anymore and have to shoot HP's...
-
I've shot +P loads in my .357 with no problems at all.
-
Thank you. I like the staggered round loading. I utilize it in my Remington 870, in what my friend calls a "spray & wash".
3 rds. of No. 2 Tactical BuckShot, 2 rds. of 00Buck, and 2 rds. of slugs.
If it gets to the slug level, I am already working on getting more firepower from the strongbox.
Thanks again. got a large range trip this Sun. (including Tannerite ::)) and enjoying letting some rds. get down range.
I will get some .38 +P rds. in the .357, and follow up.
-
Thank you. I like the staggered round loading. I utilize it in my Remington 870, in what my friend calls a "spray & wash".
3 rds. of No. 2 Tactical BuckShot, 2 rds. of 00Buck, and 2 rds. of slugs.
If it gets to the slug level, I am already working on getting more firepower from the strongbox.
Thanks again. got a large range trip this Sun. (including Tannerite ::)) and enjoying letting some rds. get down range.
I will get some .38 +P rds. in the .357, and follow up.
Glock!
*Where is that Chipper Jones shaking his head pic?
-
the only prob with loading 38s into a 357 is...
you will have a carbon ring at the end of the cylinder, which is a pita to clean off and may not let you load 357s into the gun, untill its clean.
-
Thanks TAB. I'll check case length, and carbon/fouling,. Never a real issue with standard .38's, but I'll certainly check.
OK, OK, I'll keep the "G" in the second drawer of the nightstand. with 10 rds. of Federal HST's..... ;)
-
Tom,
I've never had a problem loading .357 after shooting several hundred .38's in my Ruger but they might get a bit gummed up when you go to eject the empties.
Cleaning guns is either a PITA or a not.... I don't love it, but I don't hate it either...I enjoy taking stuff apart. I should look into some gunsmith courses at S&W...only about 45 minutes away..
-
the only prob with loading 38s into a 357 is...
you will have a carbon ring at the end of the cylinder, which is a pita to clean off and may not let you load 357s into the gun, untill its clean.
If you reload, couldn't you just download .357 cases to .38+P levels and not have to worry about the carbon ring?
-
If you reload, couldn't you just download .357 cases to .38+P levels and not have to worry about the carbon ring?
That is exactly what I do. I always keep my .38 Special brass separate from my .357 brass. I treat them as if they were non interchangeable. This eliminates any "carbon ring" forming in the chambers of the cylinder, and more importantly prevents me accidently grabbing the wrong ammunition when I head out to the range. Bill T.
-
Isn't .357 brass longer than .38+P? If so wouldn't the added volume in the .357 brass change pressures if loaded with a .38+P charge?
I am NOT an expert (or even beginner really) on reloading but I believe I have read that loading any brass with the wrong charge (even if it is under charge) has the potential to be dangerous. That the extra case volume could even allow an 'under' charge to build dangerous levels of pressure in the case.
As stated "not an expert".
-
Isn't .357 brass longer than .38+P? If so wouldn't the added volume in the .357 brass change pressures if loaded with a .38+P charge?
Theoretically yes. However most pistol powders are not slow enough to get the reloader into trouble in that regard. Case volume does come into play when downloading large, belted Magnum rifle cartridges with slow burning powder. Most of these calibers have a footnote in reloading manuals not to deviate from the minimum charge listed. It's something that cannot be duplicated in the lab with any regularity, but a type of detonation can take place under certain conditions.
In the opposite condition, a bullet pushed farther down in the case will decrease case volume enough to cause problems. That is the reason you will see a cannelure on the outside of the case, about midway down on most factory .45 ACP ammo. Bill T.
-
Original question, 38+p or+p+, does not equal .357 full house SD, loads, for my money, it is full house all the way, with the exception of very lightweight guns, and even then, practice at full speed at 7 yard targets, if you can't hit, then back down. When it is time to rock, bear down hard, I don't think the flash and recoil will overcome your attention to the threat, just like hunting with a .300 mag, the recoil is not noticed when it is pointed and fired at the intended game, but off the bench, will make you take notice. Now a 100lb spouse, who does not shoot that much, may well benefit from the lighter caliber.
-
Years ago I had a Taurus M66 .357 that I kept in my truck console. I loaded it with 4 rounds of .38 spl +P and 2 rounds of .357 magnum. I staged the cylinder so the magnums were the last 2 rounds. I figured if the first 4 +P's didn't take the BG out, the last 2 would either kill him if they were hits......or, deafen, blind, and scorch him enough to give up if I missed.
I really liked the recoil and accuracy of the +P's in the .357 . I still do the same with my .44's.
That configuration sounds right to me. And that's how I have it set up in my Rossi .357 s/s with a 4" barrel revolver. FQ and I would have a disagreement on this point--but it's not political so it doesn't matter. My thought is aligned with Peg's. A round or four of .38 +P should do the trick, but if the BG is high on sumpin-sumpin, the .357 will help him barbeque his thoughts and train him to refrain from further action. I do like the flash/boom of the .357, though.
Offered by a smiling Crusader. ;D ;D ;D
-
That configuration sounds right to me. And that's how I have it set up in my Rossi .357 s/s with a 4" barrel revolver. FQ and I would have a disagreement on this point--but it's not political so it doesn't matter. My thought is aligned with Peg's. A round or four of .38 +P should do the trick, but if the BG is high on sumpin-sumpin, the .357 will help him barbeque his thoughts and train him to refrain from further action. I do like the flash/boom of the .357, though.
Offered by a smiling Crusader. ;D ;D ;D
My rationale for putting the .357 first is that it is more likely to the "aimed" shot, where as the rest are more likely to be rapid fire and thus muzzle flip is a bigger issue. Whatever works for you though.
FQ13
-
I like the idea of the first round to be .357 and the rest .38 +P+ due to the light 12oz. weight of my S&W 340PD after you feel the pain of the first round you tend to flinch a bit on the rest of your shots. So if you know you have some more manageable if still snappy .38+P+ rounds to follow the first shot you might not flinch so much and produce a much better group!
-
The way I'm looking at it, if the magnums induce flinching and/or disorientation, I want that to come lastly....not at the beginning of a firefight. I want my most accurate shot(s) to be up front and my 'last ditch', throw the kitchen sink, to be the big boomers. JMHOFWIW.
8)
-
I'd put the mags first, if he thinks I'm throwing grenades at him I probably won't need the .38's ;D
-
I'd put the mags first, if he thinks I'm throwing grenades at him I probably won't need the .38's ;D
Might be on to something there!! ;D ;D
-
I'd put the mags first, if he thinks I'm throwing grenades at him I probably won't need the .38's ;D
If you put all the .38s in the boiler room, he wont be breathing long enough to know you brought the grenades ;)
-
The way I'm looking at it, if the magnums induce flinching and/or disorientation, I want that to come lastly....not at the beginning of a firefight. I want my most accurate shot(s) to be up front and my 'last ditch', throw the kitchen sink, to be the big boomers. JMHOFWIW.
8)
I'm going to try it both ways see what works the best. I like the power of the magnum and I can hit what I'm aiming at on the first shot it's the last 4 that are bitch to keep on target and the .38+P+'s are a bit snappy too. Though not nearly as painful as the magnums. So we'll see in a week or so.
-
Normally,,,,,,, I carry a Ruger SP101 or a Ruger LCR both in .357 and short barrel on the SP. I use Hornady Critical Defense in .357 mag and I am disabled. rich642z
-
Normally,,,,,,, I carry a Ruger SP101 or a Ruger LCR both in .357 and short barrel on the SP. I use Hornady Critical Defense in .357 mag and I am disabled. rich642z
Ok, around here you actually have to specify if its mentally or physically disabled. ;D
-
Ok, around here you actually have to specify if its mentally or physically disabled. ;D
ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The truth is always funny!
;D