The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Politics & RKBA => Topic started by: alfsauve on July 20, 2010, 07:13:25 PM
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Okay, the wife asked two questions the other night.
First how bad would things have to get in the US before we would consider leaving?
DON'T ANSWER THAT ONE. It's a personal thing, each of has a different tolerance level I'm sure.
BUT, if we did leave the US, her second question was, where would we go?
What other country would offer a similar, or better cost of living, and have freedom of speech, assembly, worship and arms?
Any thoughts?
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The biggest problem you'll find is now matter how bad it is here, it's MUCH worse just about everywhere else.
Some people say Costa Rica is a good place to go, US $s go pretty far and the gov't is relatively stable, for Central America. Not my bag, man. No significant sustainable industry and high inflation.
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25 years ago, I would have picked Australia. It was actually a "dream" goal.
Now I'd probably pick Switzerland. Notice it is NOT a member of the EU.
I passed through Switzerland many years ago on leave and found it to be a very friendly country. I visited many European countries and could find something bad to say about all of the except Switzerland. Even the winters and snow were not a problem because of the way it was handled. I was there in December and found it not a disaster or much of an inconvienence.
My favorite story is waking up in my hotel room in Chur and finding it had snowed 3ft over night. My car was a white hump in the parking lot.
I had go to American Express to cash travelers checks and asked a man, who was supervising the locals who had come out to shovel the streets in their neighborhood, for directions and he pointed out the AE office a block up the road. He also asked me where I was parked.
I went to AE and when I returned, they had shoveled a path in the parking lot to my car, swept it clean, windows and all, and had moved off someplace. I was not even able to thank them.
Any other place I had visited, they would have had been bargaining for pay for the job or even acting intimidating about getting paid afterward, which happened in Italy.
This was just the most outstanding example. Every encounter with the Swiss showed a willingness to help and an enjoyment of doing so.
Have no idea about the cost of living there or employment opportunities, but the folks are great.
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Stay in North America, go off the grid and live off the land. Get as far away from civilization as I can.
We only need government if it serves the people. It no longer does...
My wife? That's another question.....
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If we ever feel compelled to move from our home here in the most conservative, and well armed part, of the most conservative State of the Union, it would have to be New Zealand.......and give up a bunch of the gun thing :'( ............but, of course it would be full by then
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Australia it is not that bad 8)
if I had to leave the Island then New Zealand would be my next stop
they still allow Semi Auto's
just the economy is not the best
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Hey Phil,
I may well be doing Oz an injustice by not making it my first choice, but I have a goofy CumByYawhycan'tweallgetalong (half, HALF!) sister who lives somewhere near Brisbane clouding my judgement,
MP
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Alaska. Yes Alaska is a part of the US.
If it ever gets so bad that we need to leave the lower 48, Alaska will have already declared their independence. I was in Fairbanks for work for 20 days February didn't see one BHo sticker and saw the Al Gore hot air ice sculpture. The other bonus is if your a US citizen, not mentally deranged, or a felon you can carry concealed. Which from the peoples attitudes up there I don't see changing anytime soon.
The beautiful thing about Alaska is that natural selection still seems to work up there.
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Alaska. Yes Alaska is a part of the US.
If it ever gets so bad that we need to leave the lower 48, Alaska will have already declared their independence. I was in Fairbanks for work for 20 days February didn't see one BHo sticker and saw the Al Gore hot air ice sculpture. The other bonus is if your a US citizen, not mentally deranged, or a felon you can carry concealed. Which from the peoples attitudes up there I don't see changing anytime soon.
The beautiful thing about Alaska is that natural selection still seems to work up there.
I noted the "ruggedness" "off-the-grid" of the people up there and yes, it would be a good place for survival. I'm convinced that in a major catastrophe it will be the Alaskan's who survived us all.
I was thinking not so much a catastrophic event though as a political boiling point. But Alaska, may still be the best choice.
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Bunny and I have been to an awful lot of places all over this world and there are major drawbacks to most places one might consider. Alaska is too effing cold. I need warmth. Costa Rica is gorgeous. Temperatures are very moderate. They have great wilderness areas and the offshore fishing is superb. They are the longest lasting democratic republic in Central America, but they don't have much sustainable industry, and no standing army (if things really go to heck up here, they would be a target down there). OZ is beautiful except for their gun laws and the fact that they don't want immigrants over some ridiculously low age (leaves me out). NZ is neat, but not as temperate as OZ and it will run out of room when lots of immigrants flood the place so they will shut down quickly. On our side of the world, Panama has an awful lot of ex-pats already there, so English is widely spoken. It has an abundance of fresh water, forests, lakes, fishing and more. They will allow guns (with approval of the local LEO) and it may even be possible for a resident to get a carry permit, but not likely. Real estate is still reasonable. The US was in control of the Canal Zone for about 100 years, and it's easy to get just about any American products you might need. Problem is it's still a third-world country and located in a desirable place for some nation to make a stand. If the US falls apart, China would probably try to take over the Canal. Deepwater can tell you about Peru--neat place but not terribly stable in the political sense. Ecuador--same-same. Plus, you'd need to learn to speak Spanish. Chile is accommodating, but tends to come down hard on gun ownership. Brazil is overrun with inflation and crime--both non-starters for me. Argentina tends to be anti-gun and not particularly pro-immigration. Venezuela has Hugo Chaves and if you think it's bad here, try there. We' ve been all over Asia, India, Europe and a bunch of other places, so if anyone has a specific question about a specific country, I may be able to answer it for you.
Submitted by Crusader who intends to stay where it's warm and has a large supply of guns and ammo and food and stuff.
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No choice but to die in place.
If America falls there is no where else to go, and if we allow them to drive us out there is no point in continuing .
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No choice but to die in place.
If America falls there is no where else to go, and if we allow them to drive us out there is no point in continuing .
That's about sums up what I told my wife. We can try to go off the grid, Idaho, Alaska, Dakotas, (I'd prefer a tropical island), but I don't think there are any good alternatives.
HEY! THIS IS AS GOOD AS IT GETS FOLKS........LET'S NOT SCREW IT UP ANYMORE THAN WE HAVE ALREADY.
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My vote goes to taking our country back no matter what it takes or how long it takes. I am ready & willing to do what is necessary, but it must be the correct thing - and that depends on the circumstances, outlook, methodology & final result. Granted, there are no guarantees that any method/action will have the desired effect, our country is worth defending at all costs as we swore to do many years ago.
We survived Wilson, Roosevelt, Carter, Clinton & many other less damaging officials. I'm not so sure this time as there are too many ignorant people out there. For instance - we are currently in the middle of the worst recession/depression since '29 & yet many people have not changed any habits or not for long if they did. Day to day things are the same - many still get a paycheck & don't save anyway, either because of financial obiigations or stupidity. Those of us who did have lost 1/2 or more of their investment value (unless it was protected from the market etc. etc.) It matters to us who save - seeing the devaluation of monies, houses & any other real market values. But there is no difference for the moochers. They still get their handouts & they can afford their ghetto-mobiles (any race/creed!!!) & their $300 jeans. I have trouble going to Walmart for the $10 jeans!!!
Wake up America!! The sh_t is going to hit the fan soon. Remember Aesop's fable of the Ant & The Grasshopper. Best be prepared in whatever you deem the correct manner - cash, gold, guns, ammo, food, medicine.....
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No choice but to die in place.
If America falls there is no where else to go, and if we allow them to drive us out there is no point in continuing .
Tom is right.
I took the oath to defend the Constitution and abandoning that oath will not be considered. Better to die, if it comes to that, taking back the Nation it created than running and surrendering the Country to the enemies, foreign or domestic.
Patrick Henry said it best "Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death! "
And what better epitaph than the last words of Lt. Nathan Hale "'I only regret that I have but one life to lose for my country.
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No choice but to die in place.
If America falls there is no where else to go, and if we allow them to drive us out there is no point in continuing .
I may go under the radar....but I'll keep fighting there....every rebellion needs a Fifth Column....
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I thought about this many moon ago,.....
If I still lived in NC, I would stay. Too many like minded folks, different area, demographics, culture. etc,...
However, I am now in the melting pot of South Florida, too many folks would trample you for your last can of SPAM, and than cuss you out in a foreign language, yes I could fight, but my ammo would run low. So "F" em...
Therefore, I would fight to the docks, take what I need, and make all possible speed to TEXAS via a boat.
Variables would have to be considered, I may stay at sea for a while, and island hop. Let the mobs, kill each other off, wait for a rendezvous initiative via short wave radio holdouts, and than see.
I still pray this never happens, But,....
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I thought about this many moon ago,.....
If I still lived in NC, I would stay. Too many like minded folks, different area, demographics, culture. etc,...
However, I am now in the melting pot of South Florida, too many folks would trample you for your last can of SPAM, and than cuss you out in a foreign language, yes I could fight, but my ammo would run low. So "F" em...
Therefore, I would fight to the docks, take what I need, and make all possible speed to TEXAS via a boat after stopping to pick up Haz and Cursader on the beach in St Pete.
Variables would have to be considered, I may stay at sea for a while, and island hop. Let the mobs, kill each other off, wait for a rendezvous initiative via short wave radio holdouts, and than see.
I still pray this never happens, But,....
FIFY ;) ;D
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Mars.
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France.
I could have control of the crap hole in about two weeks. The only bad part would be feeding all the prisoners and getting past all the white flags.
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Therefore, I would fight to the docks, take what I need, and make all possible speed to TEXAS via a boat after stopping to pick up Haz and Cursader on the beach in St Pete..... and swinging up the curve to St. Marks to snag Peg.......
;D
That looks much better. ;)
FIFY ;) ;D
Dang Haz, ya screwed up a 'fix'.....'Cursader'??........did CR hit his thumb with a hammer? ;) ;D ;D ;D
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Dang Haz, ya screwed up a 'fix'.....'Cursader'??........did CR hit his thumb with a hammer?
ow ow ow ow ow ow ow ow ow ow... sunuva... How didja know???
CR
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I've always like the word Rendezvous. It's pronunciation sounds of the mystery involved and the way it's spelling not quite matches the pronunciation adds to that mystery.
Nice thought for this thread too.
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I'd be in the group that would have to stay and fight. Maybe relocating to the southwest or somewhere else to stay low although I know a lot of places to hide from Florida to Tennessee. As far as places out of the country my cousin just bought a place in Uraguay and is raving about it. I'm not sure how they are on defensive firearms but he took shotguns and hunting rifles down with him without any problems and left them there at his place. He says the political climate is very stable and your money goes a long way. I'd be a little worried that if it was a global SHTF situation being wedged between Brazil and Argentina might not be the best place to be but who knows.
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The DRTV member Compound.....the last stronghold of Freedom. ;)
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I gotta go with most here. I would be drawing a line in the sand. Our founders gave us the tools to defend our liberty. It's our duty as citizens of the republic to use those tools to defeat tyranny, in whatever form it exists. Let me say that again. IT IS OUR DUTY AS CITIZENS TO DEFEND THE REPUBLIC FROM TYRANNY.
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WELCOME TO TEXAS EVERYBODY 8) 8) 8) SEE YOU SOON.
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The secret hidden bunker!!
;D
Alaska....