The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Politics & RKBA => Topic started by: alfsauve on July 22, 2010, 07:27:57 PM
-
Okay the subject line is a little simplified, but then newspapers do it all the time.
But using Brady Campaign's own measurements and correlating that with FBI murder rates, GOSH, who'd thunk?
[Me! Me! Me1] States with the highest rate of gun ownership have the lowest murder rates, both firearm and non-firearm related.
DUH
http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/states-with-stricter-gun-control-laws-are-less-safe/ (http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/states-with-stricter-gun-control-laws-are-less-safe/)
-
TAB will STILL disagree, with the ATF, FBI, Justice Dept, local LEO's, and the sheer fact that, alf, YOUR CORRECT!!!!
Imagine that? ;D
-
ok so if more guns and any one can carry concealed means less crime, explain why the state with the highest sexual assult rate is alaska. almost twice the national average.
its not guns that cuase crime its people.
-
its not guns that cuase crime its people.
Agreed. It's the Brady Bunch that is trying to argue it's gun ownership that causes crime.
-
owning guns does not stop it ethier
-
I think we both agree that the guns don't cause crime. Where we differ is that I believe, in an otherwise civilized society, the widespread ownership of guns tends to maintain a cap on crime by virtue of making it more expensive to be a criminal.
-
then explain why alaska has the highest sexaul assult, aka rape rate of any other state. you don't need a permit to carry and they have one of the highest gun owner ship rates.
its not for a lack of guns, thats for sure.
-
Rape is a very hard crime to defend against as the vast majority of rapes are committed by acquaintances. It often takes place in a place where the victim feels "safe" and is with someone they "know" thus firearms are not at the ready. That is a case where other self defense techniques are better employed. Is the rape data you looked at just raw data or has it been broken down into categories, such as acquaintance v. stranger?
-
just one big lump, but thats not really the point. the point being that by far one of the worst crime that can be commited on a person happens almost twice the national average in a place where guns are every where and there is no restrictions on carrying. its not the guns or the lack there of, its the people.
ps i've never seen any data on sexual assult that was broken down. i'm sure its out there some where, i've just never seen it. i know that being attacked by a stranger is far less common then some one you know.
-
then explain why alaska has the highest sexaul assult, aka rape rate of any other state. you don't need a permit to carry and they have one of the highest gun owner ship rates.
its not for a lack of guns, thats for sure.
Cabin fever
Alaska also has a HUGE problem with alochol.
-
Cabin fever
Alaska also has a HUGE problem with alochol.
so what you are saying is guns have nothing to do with it...
how many years have i been saying that now ???
ps i think it has more to do with the mind set of the people there, rape is about power not sex. i'm talking about foreced sex, not one of the many other 'crimes' that can be called rape.
pps booze is illegal in most of alaska
-
I just did a quick search on "Alaska rape" and it seems there are a multitude of factors coming into play. Reasons given include large amounts of drunkenness, public or otherwise; greater number of men v women; isolation.
Isolation enters in in a way similar to what you saw in the movie Deliverance - clannish behavior protecting the criminal - where the perp is protected and the victim shamed and scared.
And, oh, yeah, the 20% of women raped is ESTIMATED not REPORTED. Be wary of "estimated" anything.
Snippet from a report to the State of Alaska where they flat out say it's an estimate based on SURVEY RESULTS of 11,000 women. Problems there already:
After reviewing several national sources of information about rape, we determined that the most
methodologically sound information comes from the National Women’s Study (NWS) and the
National Violence Against Women Survey (NVAWS). Data from these studies indicate that
approximately 13.4% of adult women in the United States have been victims of completed
forcible rape sometime during their lifetime. These studies also found that risk of having ever
been raped was related to a woman’s current age, her race/ethnicity, and the region of the nation
she currently lives in. Both studies also found that the majority of rapes these adult women had
experienced occurred when they were under the age of 18.
We then developed a method for estimating the prevalence of rape in Alaska using this national
information about the prevalence of rape and risk factors for having been raped. Briefly
described, we determined demographic and geographic risk factors for rape among the
approximately 11,000 women who participated in the NWS and the NVAWS. Next, we obtained
a breakdown of the Alaska population of women on these risk factors using Census data. Finally,
we used this demographic and geographic risk factor information to produce estimates of the
percentage of Alaska women who had ever been raped by statistically adjusting the
national estimate of rape based on the age and racial/ethnic breakdown of adult women in Alaska
as well as the geographic region in which Alaska is located.
Using this procedure, we estimated that approximately 20.9% of adult women in Alaska
have been victims of one or more completed forcible rapes during their lifetime. According
to the 2000 Census, there are about 210,000 women age 18 or older living in Alaska. This
means that the estimated number of adult women in Alaska who have ever been raped is
nearly 44,000. This estimate of the magnitude of Alaska's rape problem is conservative
Note they ESTIMATE the rape level in Alaska based 11,000 women who replied to a survey else where.
-
so what you are saying is guns have nothing to do with it...
No.
http://www.downrange.tv/forum/index.php?topic=13365.msg172284#msg172284
-
I just did a quick search on "Alaska rape" and it seems there are a multitude of factors coming into play. Reasons given include large amounts of drunkenness, public or otherwise; greater number of men v women; isolation.
Isolation enters in in a way similar to what you saw in the movie Deliverance - clannish behavior protecting the criminal - where the perp is protected and the victim shamed and scared.
And, oh, yeah, the 20% of women raped is ESTIMATED not REPORTED. Be wary of "estimated" anything.
Snippet from a report to the State of Alaska where they flat out say it's an estimate based on SURVEY RESULTS of 11,000 women. Problems there already:
Note they ESTIMATE the rape level in Alaska based 11,000 women who replied to a survey else where.
the fbi has a report every year that breaks down major crimes by state. now that is just reported crimes. which i'm sure rape is pretty high up on the least reported crime list.
-
the fbi has a report every year that breaks down major crimes by state. now that is just reported crimes. which i'm sure rape is pretty high up on the least reported crime list.
I've shown you mine, now you show me yours.
And yes, I am well aware of the UCR, I used it to debunk Slick Willy's claims of gun violence for a college report. Another guy that gave numbers out of context with the big picture.
-
Fatman is pretty much right on with the root cause analysis.
I would also throw out there that gun ownership in Alaska is probably vastly different then in the lower 48. I would venture that the number of people CCWing everday (and especially women) is miniscule to almost non existent. The bulk firearm ownership up there revolves around getting game (rifle+shotgun+.22). Not to mention the lack of gun stores where one could even buy a handgun specificly designed for everyday carry. With regards to crime prevention that would basicly put them in the same category as areas with firearm/handgun bans.
-
Can it be those Eskimo women are hot? and the men can't control themselves?
(http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm182/twyacht/WomenEskDancingWainwright.jpg)
C'mon TAB... ;) With that type of seductive wardrobe?
-
Ok, all in favor of banning twyacht from the forum? ;D
-
Hey, ya gotta dig chicks in mukluks.......... :o ::) ::) ::)
*and oh yeah, +1 Fatman.
-
In this instance I think I have to agree with TAB that guns have nothing to do with Alaska's rape rate, (took 3 tries to get that right ;D )
It has more to do with booze and attitudes toward women.
Another thing, How many times have you dealt with people who think "yes" means OK, and "No" means we debate it some more ?
But after seeing that picture I can not understand the high numbers. ::)
-
In this instance I think I have to agree with TAB that guns have nothing to do with Alaska's rape rate, (took 3 tries to get that right ;D )
It has more to do with booze and attitudes toward women.
Another thing, How many times have you dealt with people who think "yes" means OK, and "No" means we debate it some more ?
But after seeing that picture I can not understand the high numbers. ::)
But if women in Alaska actully carried a CCW they would be able to stop a rape in its tracks (and probably end the career of a serial rapist). I still contend that the fact that next to no one actually CCWs up there is a contributing factor, and when the police are minutes away a helicopter ride away it makes a difference.
-
CCW is a scary proposition when every one involved is drunk.
You will find similar rates on Reservations in the lower 48.
It is not so much a case of "serial rapists" as it is just drunken stupidity.
-
CCW is a scary proposition when every one involved is drunk.
You will find similar rates on Reservations in the lower 48.
It is not so much a case of "serial rapists" as it is just drunken stupidity.
If you offer violence to an innocent, whether drunk or sober, to paraphrase the words of Col. Cooper, you should beget more violence then you can possible handle, preferably the fatal type.
If you are the type of drinker who cannot refrain from violence, you need to have your behavior changed, one way or another.
It's hard to not be sure she really means 'NO' when her carry weapon is in her hand.
"You can't beat a woman who shoots" is true in a couple of meanings.
-
Guns and booze are a worse mix than booze and Indians, no offense intended but it is a simple fact that they handle Alcohol even worse than the rest of us.
-
Guns and booze are a worse mix than booze and Indians, no offense intended but it is a simple fact that they handle Alcohol even worse than the rest of us.
(http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm182/twyacht/1919_No_Liquor_Served_To_Indians_Sign.jpg)
Sign in Oklahoma Store 1919.
Before this, it was "Firewater".... ::)
Very true though, the Lumbee Tribe in NC, has a larger proportional crime rate than the surrounding area, no casinos either.
-
American Indians metabolize alcohol differently than people of European descent. This is thought to result in binge drinking and alcoholism.
Don't what excuse the Irish have. ;D
-
American Indians metabolize alcohol differently than people of European descent. This is thought to result in binge drinking and alcoholism.
Don't what excuse the Irish have. ;D
We don't need one, we are azzholes without alcohol too ;D
-
American Indians metabolize alcohol differently than people of European descent. This is thought to result in binge drinking and alcoholism.
Don't what excuse the Irish have. ;D
Oh, thank Heavens for the clarification....... I was having visions of a small band of drunken 7-11 owners trashing their store in a drunken rage.
;D ;D ;D ;D
*No offense meant to drunks of any nationality........ :P
-
Thank goodness, (I'm not sure God wants any part of this one ;D ) for the Indians in the 7 - 11's to protect us from the Pakistani's in the Taxi cabs ;D
On second thought, there may be a bit of truth there. ::)
-
That is the reason God invented whiskey to keep we Irish from ruling the world.
We don't need one, we are azzholes without alcohol too ;D
-
The Irish have never lost a war any where in the world.
You can't lose if you have troops on both sides, Even the Confederacy had an Irish brigade.
-
We Irish just look for a fight. We came here to do two things drink and fight, we are out of whiskey so it is time for somebody to have their butt cheeks turned into ear muffs.
-
Up the Republic !
-
I'll drink to that!!
And to my grandmother, Nellie Burke.
-
We don't need one, we are azzholes without alcohol too ;D
(http://i755.photobucket.com/albums/xx191/saharrold/irish-sunglasses.jpg)
-
"An Irishman isn't drunk as long as he can hang on to a single blade of grass and not fall off the face of the earth!"
;D
-
I guess it means something totally different when an Irish guy says "I'd hit that". ;D
-
Irish? Drink & Fight? and Like It?
I'm stunned :P
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJ_aFHjQhx8
::)
I guess it means something totally different when an Irish guy says "I'd hit that". ;D
Thanks now I need to clean the damn monitor again.... ;D
-
(http://i755.photobucket.com/albums/xx191/saharrold/irish-sunglasses.jpg)
In the south, that's called a 'Redneck Blindfold'.........'cause you shouldn't have to tell her twice........ 8)
Moonshine anyone? ;D
-
Don't mind if I do. Thank you.
Do you have enough for the corner ? ;D
-
Don't mind if I do. Thank you.
Do you have enough for the corner ? ;D
We can make more.
We make wine & shine..........................Peach or blueberry? :D
*I had a couple of hidden Mason jars of blueberry years ago. They were just, you know, sitting quietly in a cool, dark cabinet. My soon-to-be-wife found them while we were packing up to move to our new home and poured them down the drain......!!!!!!!!!!.... She thought it was grape jelly that had 'went bad'............ :'( :'(
-
Peach,....Peg, You are much man Gunga Din,....for the Blueberry incident...
;)
-
I know how strict we are about thread drift , ( sorry for any wrecked keyboards ) but this reminds me of something I've been wondering about.
Are what we call "Blue berries" back East the same as what the West calls "Huckleberries" ?
I know that your "Blue Jay's" only resemble ours in size . Color and profile are much differant.
-
I know how strict we are about thread drift , ( sorry for any wrecked keyboards ) but this reminds me of something I've been wondering about.
Are what we call "Blue berries" back East the same as what the West calls "Huckleberries" ?
I know that your "Blue Jay's" only resemble ours in size . Color and profile are much differant.
We are Professional Thread Drifters........... ;D
Huckleberry is a wild berry that is very similar to blueberries. There are a lot of blueberry varieties. My wife's family has a blueberry patch (couple of acres) and we get all we need for home made jelly and such. Good stuff.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blueberry
Commercially offered "wild blueberries" are usually from species that naturally occur only in eastern and north-central North America. Other sections in the genus, native to other parts of the world including western North America, South America, Europe, and Asia, include other wild shrubs producing similar-looking edible berries such as huckleberries in (North America) and bilberries (Europe). These species are sometimes called "blueberries" and sold as blueberry jam or other products.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huckleberry
While some Vaccinium species, such as Vaccinium parvifolium, the Red Huckleberry, are always called huckleberries, other species may be called blueberries or huckleberries depending upon local custom. Usually, the distinction between them is that blueberries have numerous tiny seeds, while huckleberries have 10 larger seeds (making them more difficult to eat).
The fruit of the various species of plant called huckleberry is generally edible. The berries are small and round, usually less than 5 mm in diameter, and contain 10 relatively large seeds. Berries range in color according to species from bright red, through dark purple, and into the blues. In taste the berries range from tart to sweet, with a flavor similar to that of a blueberry, especially in blue- and purple-colored varieties. Huckleberries are enjoyed by many mammals, including grizzly bears and humans.
-
Thanks Peg.
I have learned something new ;D