The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Defense and Tactics => Topic started by: Solus on August 04, 2010, 01:44:14 PM
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This has been rattling around with me for some time and I'm just getting around to opening discussion about it here.
A long time ago someone mentioned having spare magazines strategically located around their home should they need them when on the move. This started me thinking about this concept.
The most recent reminders came to me in the currently active thread Is it safe where we have been discussing options for initial response to a home intruder.
The comments that I noted were one about getting a handgun and light from the bedside vault. The other was made by Peg, I think, about putting on pants with a belt with holster and maybe other gear mounted. A comment was also made that the threat has given reason to be thinking about the things discussed.
Well, what I have been thinking of is some type of bag/pouch/box type of thing. I don't have any idea what it would be and that is why I am presenting this here...to get us thinking about what might be a workable solution.
The Bug IN Bag would have spare mags for your handgun and long gun if one was to be carried. It could contain extra shotgun shells if that was to be carried. It could hold a cell phone, pepper spray, taser, light, some type of retention device like handcuffs, thumbcuffs or wrist bindings.
It should have a "holster" area where the handgun can be placed if a switch is made to a slung long arm, or if two hands are needed to manipulate something. The hand gun would still be readily available.
I am not saying it has to hold all of this, but be able to hold as much of it as each of us deems useful. Nor am I saying this is all that should be considered to carry...that is just what I have thought of...you all will find stuff that might be added.
I envision it would be kept close, maybe hung from a door knob or something to be picked up after the initial weapon is in hand and there is time or need to grab it.
It might be hung around your neck in front of you or over one shoulder. It might have an additional strap to wrap around your chest/waist to make it more secure.
The idea is that you have your ready gun for any immediate threat and then can quickly grab the bag and wear it so anything you might need to either stay put or venture forth, if needed, would all be in one place and handy.
I don't have any ideas about how it should be constructed that I like, so that is open also.
Thoughts?
Thanks
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I've thought about this quite a bit actually since my home defense plan consists of a need to clear the house to make sure my children are safe rather than just staying put in the bedroom. I keep my concealment vest, you know the type that screams I'm carrying a gun: (http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u236/nvssurf/botach_2117_467072947.jpg)
I keep this hanging on a hook right next to the bed, it has 2 AR mags and 10rds of 00 buck along with a flashlight in it already. When I open my gunvault and grap a pistol there are 2-4 magazines for each pistol right next to the pistol that I can grab and throw in the pocket. I have the large gunvault with 2 shelves so I keep the appropriate magazines on the shelf with the pistol and another flashlight attached to the side.. Now I'm set to work my way to the closet and get a shotgun, which is the only gun I keep out of the safe, mounted high inside the reach-in closet above the door. It's cruiser ready so I have around 16rds of 12ga to work with along with a pistol with 2-4 mags. If I choose to open the safe real quick while I'm in the closet then I also have the AR with 112 rds to work with on me and the rifle. My wife can either grab the other pistol in the gunvault or take one of the longguns from me or the safe.
Honestly it sounds like overkill but it's comforting to know I have a decent amount of ordinance readily available, on my person before moving through the house. Even though a single intruder is the most common threat It doesn't hurt to be prepared for a 4-5 person home invasion team. I feel like with a split floor plan I'd rather not get cut-off from the other end of the house with limited resources. If there was a home invasion team I could easily get pinned down in my sons room while my wife an daughter could be pinned down on the other side of the house. This plan gives us a fighting chance and I can slip on the vest very quickly and it distributes the weight quite well.
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I have one of those vest and never thought of that way to use it. Thanks.
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I have one of those vest and never thought of that way to use it. Thanks.
Same here....I bought it as a 'range use' vest to keep shooting stuff at the ready while at the range. I actually forgot it was in the closet. :-[
Like I posted in another thread, I have very little need to uproot from the bedroom, but in the rare case that I did have to, this might be a way to go.
Thanks, bafsu.
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Big factor for some, including me, is no kids, so after my son went back to his home in NC, I put a few items in strategic places.
Never thought of having a vest or MOD bag, whatever, close at hand for "what may come"....but it does make sense.
Probably have to ditch the vest when the cops show up though... They can get a little sensitive when they pull up on someone wearing a tac vest and boxers....
Still a good concept to explore whether it's a vest or not. For a larger home, certain items, tucked away, work.
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Yea, I wouldn't want to sport the vest and boxers look either. I was in the same boat as far as buying the vest for the range and seeing it sit in the closet the idea hit me. I can't leave a whole lot stashed around the house with small kids although I do have some mags on high shelves at various points and another gunvault where I keep my carry guns and wallet and other assorted crap that fills my pockets when I leave. Having the vest "pre-loaded" and on a hook next to the bed just seemed a lot quicker than getting shorts or pants on and buttoned etc. I usually wear gym shorts around the house and have them next to the bed to pull on fast but you try to slip a pistol in gym short pockets and they end up around your ankles. The vest has the built in concealment pistol pockets so I can slip the pistol in there and transition to the shotgun or AR once I get to the closet.
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I've thought about this quite a bit actually since my home defense plan consists of a need to clear the house to make sure my children are safe rather than just staying put in the bedroom. I keep my concealment vest, you know the type that screams I'm carrying a gun:
Perfect, Bafsu...
Will have room for everything, easy to get on and more secure than a bag or box hanging around your neck.
I knew this was the place to ask
Thanks.
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I am lucky, no kids in the house, the bedroom is the defense room. Next to the bed on my side is my dressing chair, it holds my pants, which I have everyday, a J frame smith, 2 reloads and 2 flashlights, as I use them in my daily routine, Rem 870 with surefire forend, 7rd mag and 4 rd side saddle, in the bed, Glock 17 with crimson trace and 28rd mag, model 649 with one reload, 2 feet away my 16" AR with flashlight and magcinch 2 x 30 rd mags, aimpoint always on half power. Change the batteries on my Birthday.
I can give multiple attackers a bad response. Rack the 17 and give it to the wife, I pick up the 870 and we are going to town hunkered down behind the water bed, which I believe will stop a lot of bullets if shot through. I also have 2 streamlight rechargeable flashlights in chargers mounted to the bed.
The vest Idea is a good one, my lifestyle permits my sitrep.
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IMO. the only thing you are missing is the OC spray and Cell phone. I like to have options and the only break-in'ish experienced was a drunk neighbor whom I would of been justified Spraying but not shooting.
tex
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For a less Ninja look, a bird vest would work. I've got the classic Filson. Suspenders with two big pouches and a game bag. Well, one pouch with shells and a light, one with mags for the Glock and maybe a couple of AR mags in the game pocket. Think of it as tactical FUDD. ;D I'll even wear my smiley boxers. Oh, wait, I have The Watchmen version. Probably a bad idea. ;D ;D ;D
FQ13
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So you are going to hide the "Ninja look" with "FuDD cammo" instead? I do not get it, are you concerned with how the Felonious Home-invaders will perceive you and rather not intimidate them? Or is it the fact that you would have to admit the need to your peers? I am befuddled FQ. Seriously man.
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So you are going to hide the "Ninja look" with "FuDD cammo" instead? I do not get it, are you concerned with how the Felonious Home-invaders will perceive you and rather not intimidate them? Or is it the fact that you would have to admit the need to your peers? I am befuddled FQ. Seriously man.
More like I already own the damn thing. Plus, it doesn't scream paranoid yahoo to the cops. As far as the BGs, if plan A succeeds, getting their perceptions will recquire a ouija board. Still, I return to the first point, I already own it. Even if I didn't its cheaper than a range vest. Lighten up man, its humor. ;)
FQ13
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More like I already own the damn thing. Plus, it doesn't scream paranoid yahoo to the cops. As far as the BGs, if plan A succeeds, getting their perceptions will recquire a ouija board. Still, I return to the first point, I already own it. Even if I didn't its cheaper than a range vest. Lighten up man, its humor. ;)
FQ13
This is what I was afraid of. You are in denial, or worst, with the rest of the statement. I am perplexed with you man but I am nothing but light.
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This is what I was afraid of. You are in denial, or worst, with the rest of the statement. I am perplexed with you man but I am nothing but light.
Whats the point here? Look, if I shoot a guy in my house, it will be with an EBR, EBSG or EBP (or in my case an Evil Olive Drab Pistol :-\ ;D). So, why not USE THE VEST I HAVE, rather than buying a tac vest I neither want nor need? Why spend money to annoy the cops? If you need or want a tac vest, by all means buy one. Hell, buy two. Nothing wrong with that. All I'm saying is that being tactical includes not going out of your way to make waves with the cops. YMMV.
FQ13
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Whats the point here? Look, if I shoot a guy in my house, it will be with an EBR, EBSG or EBP (or in my case an Evil Olive Drab Pistol :-\ ;D). So, why not USE THE VEST I HAVE, rather than buying a tac vest I neither want nor need? Why spend money to annoy the cops? If you need or want a tac vest, by all means buy one. Hell, buy two. Nothing wrong with that. All I'm saying is that being tactical includes not going out of your way to make waves with the cops. YMMV.
FQ13
Now you are contradicting you previous 'tude in this post: For a less Ninja look, a bird vest would work. You are no more or less safe from the opinions of responding officers if you look tactical FUDD. . So why promote it?
Just saying FQ. If you have strong feelings against people buying "Purpose Specific Gear", why not be honest? Its a little too Liberal in my opinion and I am not polite enough not to point it out.
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Now you are contradicting you previous 'tude in this post: For a less Ninja look, a bird vest would work. You are no more or less safe from the opinions of responding officers if you look tactical FUDD. . So why promote it?
Just saying FQ. If you have strong feelings against people buying "Purpose Specific Gear", why not be honest? Its a little too Liberal in my opinion and I am not polite enough not to point it out.
I'm going to sum up with this. The tactical Fudd vs ninja thing was humor. If I "had strong feelings against people buying tactical gear" I'd hardly be making provisions to carry ammo for an 8 round tube 12 gauge Maverick riot gun, an AR-15 or Glock would I? I'd rely on my double barrels, bolt actions and a .38 revolver. You are putting a lot of words in my mouth. I may be more liberal than you on some issues, but the 2A ain't one of them.
FQ13
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You voted for whom again? Enough said dude. You can change your opinion as you feel, but don't light the fuse on your tampoon if you get called on a B.S. statement. Take a drink and rethink your previous statements on post. You brought humor into a serious question by a forum member whom has serious concerns about 'How to' and got called on it. If it made you feel superior to use 'fudd' on self while typing down at inquiring members and getting a laugh, sad man. If I am taking it the wrong way, my bad without hesitation, but this is how it came across FQ.
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You voted for whom again? Enough said dude. You can change your opinion as you feel, but don't light the fuse on your tampoon if you get called on a B.S. statement. Take a drink and rethink your previous statements on post. You brought humor into a serious question by a forum member whom has serious concerns about 'How to' and got called on it. If it made you feel superior to use 'fudd' on self while typing down at inquiring members and getting a laugh, sad man. If I am taking it the wrong way, my bad without hesitation, but this is how it came across FQ.
I was making a valid suggestion. Game vest will work and I intend to use it. I guarantee you Solus will not take offense and he made me think of the bag as a good idea (at least in mho). You are picking fights where there is no disagreement.
FQ13 Who wants to get back to the thread
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I was making a valid suggestion. Game vest will work and I intend to use it. I guarantee you Solus will not take offense and he made me think of the bag as a good idea (at least in mho). You are picking fights where there is no disagreement.
FQ13 Who wants to get back to the thread
Last word. HMMMMPHHH!
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Thanks for the suggestion, FQ, that is what I was looking for here.
I took your comments about the less ninja look as you intended, a humorous way to introduce your suggestion. The same with the tactical Fudd comment.
As for looking less paranoid yahoo, that was mentioned previous to your post about not appearing to the police officers wearing a tactical vest and underwear. You simply continued that humorous thread.
Thanks again.
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I have one of those vest and never thought of that way to use it. Thanks.
Same here....I bought it as a 'range use' vest to keep shooting stuff at the ready while at the range. I actually forgot it was in the closet. :-[
Bane has one too..... I think his is just for weddings and black tie affairs ;D
A tactical vest of some kind is the best way to go. It would be the quickest way to go into loaded up mode and would probably make it easier to access your mags then from a bag.
I talked a buddy of mine into keeping one on his boat to feed the AR he has onboard. I was able to successfully get through to him that he might need a great deal of ammo if he ever needed to try to keep a bad guy's boat at a distance, and the "easy off" ability of a vest could be a life saver if he ever fell overboard. He does a lot of trips where he goes far enough off shore that pirates are actually a possibility
As far as the Quaker/Texcaliber feud.... Is it just me or is anyone else surprised that there is someone left on this forum that actually takes Quaker seriously? ZING! I think the idea of the bug in bag is more focused on long term bug in situations, not facing down a home invader/burglar and then waiting for the cops......... more so for those situations where there might not be any cops! I saw a lot of news coverage during Katrina of people sitting on their porch with a shotgun across their lap, but none of those people were carrying reloads. I think in an extended bug in situation where you had to stay and defend the castle, a quickly deployable system for reloads, backup gun, etc is a very good thing to have.
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I think the idea of the bug in bag is more focused on long term bug in situations, not facing down a home invader/burglar and then waiting for the cops......... more so for those situations where there might not be any cops! I saw a lot of news coverage during Katrina of people sitting on their porch with a shotgun across their lap, but none of those people were carrying reloads. I think in an extended bug in situation where you had to stay and defend the castle, a quickly deployable system for reloads, backup gun, etc is a very good thing to have.
I got that impression too, from the title at least. As far as that goes my house IS my bug-in-bag. Everything I would need to bunker in for about a month. Maybe 6 weeks if I ration from the outset. I personally feel that this is the amount of time needed to know if this is going to turn into a long term survival situation, or for the disaster to be over. Either way I have enough time to take the next step. Either procuring more supplies, or just waiting it out. I also decided to stop at this level (at least for now) because it is the balance of food, water, and equipment that I could load up in the truck and bug out if I had to. There is no standing around looking at a pile of stuff and trying to prioritize what stays, and what goes. It all goes. It has been scrutinized and deemed required. Load it all up, grab the family, and lets hit the BACK road! Or, since the powers out, start thawing out all the meat in the freezer, we're making jerky kids!
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IMO. the only thing you are missing is the OC spray and Cell phone. I like to have options and the only break-in'ish experienced was a drunk neighbor whom I would of been justified Spraying but not shooting.
tex
Yea, I didn't mention that but we each have a cordless phone on our nightstand and I also have my cell there every night. I moved my cell charger from the front door area to the nightstand about a year ago. It took some getting used to but gives a backup with no power or phone lines. We still charge my wife's phone near the front door so if needed I could always grab it on the move. We do have an OC canister in my wife's nightstand and also in her purse. When we build a new house in a year or so I will have a safe room in the design with easy access to our room and the kids room.
As far as a tac vest vs. "Fudd" vest or whatever, I think the point is if you already own something that will work for your needs then use it. Don't run out and buy "tacticool" gear if you don't need it. I already had this vest which really looks more like a photographers vest than a "tac" vest. Most of us here would identify the look as a CCW carrier in public but it's still not as menacing a look as wearing a true tac vest which to me is a MOLLE style plate carrier type vest with mag shingles etc. I also own one of those with soft body armor and even though it would provide me an additional level of safety to have the soft body armor while engaging potential intruder(s) within my home I for sure don't want to have that look when the local LEO's arrive.
My photog/tac vest really isn't that menacing of a look, it doesn't really scream tactical any more than my dove vest does, and I can slip it off as fast as I put it on. I would pretty much guarantee if it was back on it's hook by the bed or hanging over the back of a kitchen chair the average cop that comes into the house following a self defense situation, shooting or otherwise, isn't going to look twice at the vest hanging on a hook or chair. If you had some MOLLE gear vest with holsters and mags hanging off it that seemed as well equipped as what my local SWAT team carried then you might get scrutinized a bit more. I personally wouldn't even worry about that here where I live since odds are I'd know at least half the responding officers but you'd have to gauge that on your own situation.
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I agree about your house being your Bug In Bag during a long period. If I lived in a Winnebago, it would be my Bug Out Bag too.
What I was getting at was that brief moment you have after finding an intruder is in your house to grab what you need to protect yourself and others.
This is what I have that I can get into play in under a minute, not what I have stockpiled for the siege.
The "tactical" vest is pretty much what I had in mind with this post. Should have figured it out myself.
Thanks again for the thoughts.
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Bane has one too..... I think his is just for weddings and black tie affairs ;D
I also have a Hawaiian shirt now too........should make a great combo. ;D
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I agree with FQ only an idiot would pay extra because it's "Tacticool".
I bought a vest for concealment, It has loops for 10 shotgun shells,
Starting at the right shoulder and moving down
First pocket
Flashlight
Next Pocket
Butts and lighter
Large bottom pocket
Bottle of Aspirin (100 count ) Water bottle (1 liter )
Inside pocket
Shades or safety glasses Depends on which ones I'm wearing, the others are in this pocket )
Left Top
Note book, 2 markers and a pen, package of antacid and packet of "Triple antibiotic " band aids
Middle pocket
Cell phone
Bottom large pocket
Nitro pills, Knife sharpener, and survival kit with Magnesium chips, Matches, fish hooks, fish line, sinkers and a wire saw, and a paper back book
Inside pocket
Ear plugs
No one even notices because it doesn't scream "I'm a ninja wannabe"
Instead it screams "Here's a guy who lives out of his pockets".
And no one has ever noticed the 2 pistols, 2 spare mags, and 2 knives I carry elsewhere.
PS, Texcaliber, you had to make quite a stretch to get offended by FQ's comment, I'll make it easy for you, when you rag on him out side the politics section, you and Eric sound like my ex wife. If that does not deeply offend you, you don't know my Ex.
See you next Tuesday . ::)
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As for looking less paranoid yahoo, that was mentioned previous to your post about not appearing to the police officers wearing a tactical vest and underwear. You simply continued that humorous thread.
It would be less "paranoid yahoo" than if you appeared wearing a tactical vest and NO underwear.... :o
Another option would be a safety or carpenters' vest....
http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1xkj/R-202073069/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053 (http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1xkj/R-202073069/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053)
http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1xkj/R-202218043/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053 (http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1xkj/R-202218043/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053)
http://www.homedepot.com/Tools-Hardware-Tool-Storage-Aprons-Pouches/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1xkjZbasg/R-100375408/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053 (http://www.homedepot.com/Tools-Hardware-Tool-Storage-Aprons-Pouches/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1xkjZbasg/R-100375408/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053)
http://www.homedepot.com/Tools-Hardware-Tool-Storage-Aprons-Pouches/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1xkjZbasg/R-100155225/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053 (http://www.homedepot.com/Tools-Hardware-Tool-Storage-Aprons-Pouches/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1xkjZbasg/R-100155225/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053)
http://www.homedepot.com/Tools-Hardware-Tool-Storage-Aprons-Pouches/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1xkjZbasg/R-100155465/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053 (http://www.homedepot.com/Tools-Hardware-Tool-Storage-Aprons-Pouches/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1xkjZbasg/R-100155465/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053)
http://www.homedepot.com/Tools-Hardware-Tool-Storage-Aprons-Pouches/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1xkjZbasg/R-100672666/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053 (http://www.homedepot.com/Tools-Hardware-Tool-Storage-Aprons-Pouches/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1xkjZbasg/R-100672666/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053)
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(http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/4718/p10007031.th.jpg) (http://img706.imageshack.us/i/p10007031.jpg/)
Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
I admit to owning this, far from expensive at about $39 new including shipping via EBay. It came with a belt which I have used for another purpose. Surprisingly good quality and very comfortable. I'm sure I could come up with some sort of good looking fake acronym (DRTV?) to stick on the ID patch if I were to be worried about 'friendly fire', but as I'm about 20 minutes away from the closest Sheriff's deputy.............I'm not
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As gun guys or those that hang with them, we see MB in his vest and say GUN ... SHOOT ME FIRST!!! However, we need to remember that anyone coming into our home is planning on shooting us first, and out in public most people don't recognize the vest as anything threatening.
I am thinking of taking a page from the fanny pack advice, and putting a photography patch on the front and back of a concealment vest, and let the general public think I'm a a photo geek.
When talking about what others will think we need to try and think like them. A lesson from Minnesota Department of Natural Resources and firearm safety and hunter ed - 11% of the nation's population are pro-hunting, 9% are anti-hunting, and 80% of the nation's population has no opinion. That same 80% has little information on areas of shooting, and most of the 9% are clueless as well. Then go with the idea that most of the pro-gun people aren't "bad guys," and how many people are really going to recognize a vest that screams gun to us.
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As gun guys or those that hang with them, we see MB in his vest and say GUN ... SHOOT ME FIRST!!! However, we need to remember that anyone coming into our home is planning on shooting us first, and out in public most people don't recognize the vest as anything threatening.
I am thinking of taking a page from the fanny pack advice, and putting a photography patch on the front and back of a concealment vest, and let the general public think I'm a a photo geek.
When talking about what others will think we need to try and think like them. A lesson from Minnesota Department of Natural Resources and firearm safety and hunter ed - 11% of the nation's population are pro-hunting, 9% are anti-hunting, and 80% of the nation's population has no opinion. That same 80% has little information on areas of shooting, and most of the 9% are clueless as well. Then go with the idea that most of the pro-gun people aren't "bad guys," and how many people are really going to recognize a vest that screams gun to us.
Good point. Its on this same topic that I'll include a PM I sent to another member. I was a bit exassperated with Texcalibers thinking I was making a political statement when reccomending a bird vest (for the record, I really wasn't). It got me to thinking about how "tacticool" had blinded us to tactical. The post is a bit tongue in cheek and obviously not meant literally. It was just food for thought with a bit of irony and humor thrown in.
Here's the post about "tacticool" vs tactical cammo.
This is something that gets lost on this board and every other I've ever been on. Cammo is designed to blend in with AN environment. We get fixated on woodland/desert military stuff.
Well, what works in an urban environment? If you were serious about this, well.....you would look like a lawyer, a blue collar worker bee, a homeless guy. Someone no one notices and no one looks at twice. I swear, if you shoot somone, you want an el cheapo reliable gun that makes you look like an amateur who just got scared and bought one out of fear and modeling the cops. (Bonus points if you're a woman and its pink) . You would have read this board but never posted and have an Obama sticker on your car. If you have to get pro active? Your tactical vehicle would be a shopping cart, your "tactical pants" would be pissed in twice, you wouldn't have shaved or showered for two weeks and you'd be half in the bag and puke on the shoes of any officer who dared to get within ten feet of you. Alternatively, sharply dressed, perfect grammar and an attitude of privilege. "How can I help you gentlemen? Questions? Well, you'll have to talk to my attorney, here's her card". Lesson the first, Don't be seen.
FQ13
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FQ has it nailed, camouflage has to fit the environment, in the woods it's "Realtree or Mossyoak, in the city it would be Brooks Brothers or Armani.
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FQ has it nailed, camouflage has to fit the environment, in the woods it's "Realtree or Mossyoak, in the city it would be Brooks Brothers or Armani.
Your right, easier to spot in the scope in that get up.... ::)
(http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm182/twyacht/Sniper.jpg)