The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: flyandscuba on March 21, 2007, 09:30:59 PM
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Yes, I am one I suppose:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v250/flyandscuba/P7s.jpg)
Although now officially discontinued by HK -- by far, I find them to be the most accurate belt carry CCWs that I own. Out of all of them though, I still choose the P7 PSP more times than not over the M8, M13 -- or M10. Though some find the manual of arms too far a departure from other pistols, I find it natural, comfortable -- and certainly safe.
Cheers!
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One of the guys that shoots with us in IDPA is an HK Collector. He has a similar collection. I am surprised I don't see one of them chromed. Very nice collection. I like the M10 portion too.
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I am surprised I don't see one of them chromed.
Nah, I'm a firm believer that P7s are best left black -- as originally intended.
Though I rarely carry the M10 -- it is a sweet shooter. I've used it in a couple of Randy Cain's handgun courses with excellent results.
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Very cool! i will have to find one of these some day. I had the chance to gt one about 6 years ago for 650$. it was chromed though. I too believed it was best to have it in Black at the time. Oh well ::)
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Bought my first one in 1984 and it still remains my favorite. I found that I was just as fast and accurate with it as with a highly modified racegun. Sorry to hear that is now discontinued.
The Wilson Combat ADP borrows many features of the P7, but I haven't seen one yet.
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The Wilson Combat ADP borrows many features of the P7, but I haven't seen one yet.
The newest American Handgunner had an article on the APD. 100 rounds before the first gas system related stoppage. A thorough cleaning and 50 rounds later there was another stoppage due to the gas system being clogged. Might have been ammo related, but it does remind me of the stories the original Heritage Stealth had. Also I think that putting the Wilson name on the Stealth and then charging twice what NIB Stealths are going for is pretty strange.
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Good grief! Bruce Gray would have a stroke!
Back int he early 1980s, when Bruce was the entire H-K R&D department, he was always cooking up P-7s in "Major 9," ie, 9mm jacked up to make the IPSC major caliber power factor. I'd see him and he'd say, "Wanna shot it?" My response was that I had grown accustomed to my hands, and having blow up two guns myself (a 1911 .38 Super and a High-Power in Major 9), I'd gotten spooky. He always looked so hurt, and pointed out to me that P-7s, as a rule, didn't blow up...unlike the French MAB he'd launched into low earth orbit.
Good lord, we were stupid back then!
Michael B
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I just got mine like 2 weeks ago and love it. Super safe.
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i always liked the P7 for carry. it was good enough for the german police right ?
a little info Cabela's has a bunch for sale ! asking price 760.ish i believe
no idea why H&K discontinued it, possibly due to the retail price ???
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no idea why H&K discontinued it, possibly due to the retail price ???
Yes, its production costs finally priced it out of the market.
I will dissent: I bought one several years ago and shot it extensively for two years. It never clicked with me. The way it heats up is annoying, the finish is weak, the grip screws need a lot of lock tite to stay in place, and the gas porting fouls the gun quickly. It is difficult to clean or keep clean, although I have read HK designed it to run dirty. Yet, the idea of a permanently dirty pistol offends my neatnik sensibilities. Speaking of clicking, the sound it makes when gripping the squeeze-cocker is irritating as well. I found it as accurate and reliable as any Euro-style 9x19 pistol. It is certainly not better. As for parts, not always available, and this situation will not improve now that the pistol is out of production. If you must have one, buy two and use one for parts. The current used German police ones floating around are the last of the good times for the P7.
If one is a theme-oriented collector, consider picking up one of each: the P5, P6, and P7. Surplus firearms of this type are currently available. All served the German police well for 30 years. These pistols were developed in the 70s after the Munich Massacre when the German Authorities decided to pack away the .32 Autos and get some better guns. The requirements they published were for a 9mm pistol that would be ready to fire without disengaging a safety. Each design meets this requirement in its own way. This development was the beginning the modern 9mm pistol, which I think is the finest handgun one can buy (although now in high capacity format). While the P5, P6, and P7 are now outdated, they mark a significant turn in the development of small arms.
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Michael,
Was the blow-up hi-power one of the earlier forged frames, or one of the current cast frames that are supposed to be stronger?
The cast frames all have the fine grooves on the bottom of the mag well. My first hi-power was one of the 60's T series; I shot many hundred of a published load using Herco powder. Many years later, I found some of those loads and chronographed them: 125 gr. @1250! I'm happy to say the gun still looks like new, but after advice from both Wayne Novak and Bill Lauthridge, I'll never fire those loads again in any hi-power. Of course some militaries used hotter loads, but most of them weren't especially concerned with a long life span on any combat gear.
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I like my P7PSP ok, but I don't think it is all that great. If the trigger didn't have so much curve to it, I would like a it better. As far as a carry gun, I prefer my P225.
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Sorry to have made a typo on Bill Laughridge. He is way too nice a guy to not have his name spelled correctily.
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Having been a former HK dealer I think the squeeze-cocker is a fine pistol and won’t wade into any pros and cons.
My response is about the use of the term “Chrome”. Chrome is seldom used for a finish of a quality firearm (of course you unless you consider Ravens and other small inexpensive auto loaders) and of course the lining of rifle barrels. Most finishes are nickel plated . . . chrome is an extremely fragile finish as it does not flex well. Nickel is a multilayer applied finish that will expand (to a certain extent), so most high quality firearms are Nickel plated not Chrome plated. About the only time chrome is used is when you see a finish called “Cracked Chrome” which is an electroless nickel finish similar to the finish you see on Browning Hi-Power’s in the 80’s and Colt pistols of the same era (Colt Guard). But all these finishes have the same problem; they will not protect the metal from rust as well as you think. Sad thing about nickel is that the metal, if exposed to moisture and not treated, will rust from the inside out, thus by the time you see the rust on the finish the metal below may be pitted.
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I've owned a German police surplus P7M8 a few years ago, and Trevor is right, the trigger and accuracy of the P7 is not as good as claimed, the bluing starts rusting in your hands quick(your hands smell like rust after shooting it), fire 3 mags rapid fire and the trigger guard will burn you and you will have to take a 10 minute break to wait for the gun to cool, the recoil reduction of the messy gas system is overrated.
In tactical use, are you supposed to squeezecock as soon as you unholster? Like in a house clearing situation? Then you are walking around unknown targets with a cocked and relatively light trigger(We don't recomend it wiith revolvers). Or uncocked in your hand, then you will be walking around with a really light grip on the pistol, someone can just lightly tap the pistol out of your hand. I could never figure that out.
All that said, it is the coolest looking pistol...still after all these years. Great show-off gun at the range. I like the squeezecocker doubling as a slide release, very easy to use, and no extra buttons to find or slide to reach. As much as I had hopes for the P7 when buying it(it was still expensive, used and all), in almost every way the lowly Glock 26 did much better. Oh, another good thing about the P7, you can sell it again at a good price!
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The HP I lit up was one of the old competition models with the longer barrel and barrel weight (the GS? Stephen Camp would know...). I made major with a "triplex" load — three different powders with different burn rates — compressed under a 125-gr JHP. I also made the slide crack right at the slide stop, the magazine emphatically and automatically eject and several other non-documented actions take place. I have no excuses, except that I was younger and stupider. Wasn't my gun, either...not exactly true...it was my gun AFTER the explosion!
Michael B
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I'm suffering from "Seller's Remorse" over the two (2) PSP's that I used to have. Sold them when I got out of the military back in the late 1900's. One had over 30K rounds through it - no hiccaughs.
I loved how thin they were for CCW! Heavy for caliber, their recoil never bothered me. Triggers were not like a tuned 1911, but pretty close. I don't know how accurate they were because the harder I tried, the better they shot. I don't believe I ever quite shot to their potential (reportedly, Fritz Huls shot a 5" group at 100 with one - from prone - back in Orange Gunsite). Even with the butt-mounted mag-release, these were quick to reload (not as quick as a 1911 for a speed-load, but about the same with a tac-load).
O.K. the stock-screws had sheet-metal lock-washers that would flatten out, and then the stock screws would come loose. Lavender Loctite (#222) is the answer for THAT! Hmm... They'd get hot if you shot them a lot. So does everything else! Wear a glove, or take a break. Not an issue with CCW.
I might just have to scout up some replacements.
-KBS
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I had a M13 for a while. I never made the conversion from a normal hand gun to the HK. My first HK pistol was the MK 23 then every USP made. I gave up on HK due to poor service from HK. Now I only have one HK and it is class III
Jon
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For some reason I always wanted one but never could let go of the cash? Silly me.