The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: PegLeg45 on August 12, 2010, 07:09:45 AM
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http://www.star-telegram.com/2010/08/11/2398802/former-president-and-first-lady.html
By Pete Alfano
palfano@star-telegram.com
This was a different kind of shock and awe.
As 145 soldiers returning from Iraq and Afghanistan walked through the double doors in Terminal D at DFW Airport on Wednesday for two weeks of R&R, they were greeted not only by their families, but by some special guests.
Former President George W. Bush and Laura Bush joined 33 kids participating in the North Texas Super Bowl Host Committee's SLANT 45 project to give service members perhaps the most memorable moment since the Welcome Home Heroes initiative started in November 2004.
"Today was one of the best, if not the best day we ever had," said Lt. Col. Patrick McAfee, who has overseen the program for the last three years. "It was phenomenal and the bottom line is that these service members had the shock of their lives. Kids being there gives special meaning to us soldiers, and the president and first lady were there just like regular people."
Read more: http://www.star-telegram.com/2010/08/11/2398802/former-president-and-first-lady.html#ixzz0wOQCyqgq
Photos here:
http://www.star-telegram.com/2010/08/11/2398802/former-president-and-first-lady.html#article_photos
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Honestly? If Id been returning from Afghanistan I'd consider it an honor. If I'd been coming back from Iraq? The S.S. woud have had to shoot me.
FQ13
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:D
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May not have agreed with all his policies, and his speeches made me laugh, but "W" had something that's been missing in the office of the current WH resident: honor.
It would be quite refreshing to have an element of honor return. Oh well... Just over two more years--if we last that long.
Offered by Crusader who's been wishing his life away.
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Honestly? If Id been returning from Afghanistan I'd consider it an honor. If I'd been coming back from Iraq? The S.S. woud have had to shoot me.
FQ13
I think that's a little off base. Yes, the stated reason for Iraq was based on bad intel, but we are still doing a job that should have been done in 92. The Iraqi people as a whole, want us there and theink we are doing the best we can, given the soup sandwich we were handed.
Most service members believe we are doing the right thing for the right reasons, and feel that we are leaving to early. That said, if I walked off a plane after being downrange and saw the POTUS, or former POTUS, standing there to say "Thanks", even the current one would get my respect for doing so.
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I think that's a little off base. Yes, the stated reason for Iraq was based on bad intel, but we are still doing a job that should have been done in 92. The Iraqi people as a whole, want us there and theink we are doing the best we can, given the soup sandwich we were handed.
Most service members believe we are doing the right thing for the right reasons, and feel that we are leaving to early. That said, if I walked off a plane after being downrange and saw the POTUS, or former POTUS, standing there to say "Thanks", even the current one would get my respect for doing so.
Well said, and more polite than anything I thought of typing.
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Well said, and more polite than anything I thought of typing.
Ding!....Either way, Bush not only has honor, respect, and reverence for our troops. He also has what the current POTUS doesn't:
CLASS!
I'll bet 99.9% of those returning troops were damn glad to see him.
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I'll bet 99.9% of those returning troops were damn glad to see him and not Obummer.
FIFY
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Look guys, I don't want to Hijack this thread and I actually think W was doing the right thing. I would like to see him and the ex- presidents do it. Hell, even Carter would be a morale booster if he showed up at the airport and said "Thanks for your service".
That being said? There is nothing in Iraq that is worth the life of a single American if Saddam stayed within his borders (which he did). Daddy's sanctions, enforced by Clinton, worked. Every dead American can be laid at W's feet. He asked "Is the world better off with Saddam out of Power"?
Who gives a f..k? The real question is whether America is better off for having started that war? The answer is no.
FQ13
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Look FQ, no one is going to change your mindset... How many VIOLATIONS of UN Sanctions, that Bush was very patient in getting, did Saddam violate? Uh, that would be EVERY ONE OF THEM.
Do you remember what the Treaty after Gulf War I stated, AND UN sanctions stated? Uh, we could retaliate, with ANY MEANS!!!
The enabling of terrorist groups, and training facilities in Sadr City, the funding of terrorist groups like Hamas, Hezbollah, Al-Aksa-Martyrs Brigade, etc,.....all while Saddam's sons, raped, kidnapped, and tortured whoever they wanted, including children.
How many American pilots were shot at patrolling the No-Fly Zone, how many months did we put up with this crap? How many months/ years did we wait for the IAEA, UN to do something????
The IAEA was kicked out of Iraq, several times, and the UN did what the UN does,.....NOTHING!!!!!! Just like Iran today....Same as it ever was isn't it? How long before Iran "pushes" the envelope farther FQ????
So get off the "every dead American thing".....it's uncalled for.
Three kinds of people FQ,
1. Folks that let things happen
2. Folks that watch things happen
3. Folks that MAKE THINGS HAPPEN
take your #2 position, and have another cocktail. Saddam deserved to die in the early 90's when we had him in our sights than.
But we played "nice" trying to appease the Middle East (again)....
Join the Peace Corps, and help some Haitians out. Sheesh...
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TW, some things for you to consider:
Number of American pilots killed over the no fly zone? Zero.
Number of Iraqis killed by Saddam? Do either of us know or care? And was it more or less than are dying now? I return to my first question.
Cost of the Iraq war? $704 billion dollars, 3,486 dead Americans. These I care about very much.
The amount of deference you believe we ought to pay to the UN? Some number less than zero.
The reason the Arabs hate us? We're messing around in the Middle East, a region I will cheerfully leave to the camel jockeys the day after we have energy independence. They want to be left alone? Not half as bad as I'd like to deny ever having met them.
In short TW, not one of your arguments pointed to a single vital American interest threatened by Saddam. Yeah, he was a bad guy who oppressed his people and funded anti-Israel terror groups. This differs from our "friends" the Saudi's how? Remember that telathon for suicide bombers?
I'm hardly going to join the Peace Corps or go to Haiti (hell, Haiti has come to us). Its just that I'd really like a hard eyed realist in charge rather than someone who wants to make the rest of the world's problems our own. When W dies his grave stone will read "Not half the man his father was". (Probably true for most of us, but especially so in his case).
Fq13
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So since no American pilots were shot down, the only country to uphold sanctions and treaty violations was going to be who?
Just let him thumb his nose at the world, like Iran is now, and just what,....let him be? The scandal for food for oil, was enabled BY THE UN!! He didn't just fund anti-Israeli terrorist groups, he funded TERRORISTS!. Considering all the other intelligence agencies, was in agreement, and Saddam's personal fondness for using chemical weapons against the Kurds....etc,.... et. al... The world after 9/11 knew that we were going to kick ass. Remember, Quadaffi got real humble after 9/11 cause, for a brief time, he didn't know how far the U.S ass kicking was going to go, and he was having Reagan flashbacks.
I like it like that. It's all the damn barbaric savages understand. Talking, appeasing, bowing, and rationalizing, will get us another 9/11, and frankly I'm surprised we haven't had another one yet.
And keep going back, how long have the Muslim extremists hated infidels? Gee, Crusades or earlier??? America, if I recall wasn;t even around than.
Vital American interest threatened by Saddam????
Like I posted, keep watching things happen, and eventually, you'll ask:
Gee, How did that happen? Saddam was enabling and funding every anti American terrorist group he could reach, and let the party and train in his back yard. Which terrorist went to get medical aide in Iraq, after being wounded???
If you want a hard eyed realist view, try thinking of a foreign policy that is not so passive when dealing with terrorists that would gladly slit your families throat if given the chance. Sure Saudi America sucks, and is not our ally, just like Russia.
Hey, but I hear travel restrictions are going to be lifted to Cuba!!! We'll have to jump a quick flight down get some cigars and rum, spend our money on another two-bit dictators country, but at least their amenities, and they don;t want to kill us.
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Every dead American can be laid at W's feet.
FQ13
You know, I read this and then decided to go read a few other threads before commenting..... but I really cant get past my original assesment.
Quaker, you are a sorry son of a bitch! I mean you have said some stupid sh-it in the past, but this might actually have topped them all. You may think that the war in Iraq was the worst military move in the history of the world, but to say something like that is just f-ucking horrible. You make me sick. Do yourself and everybody else a favor and get lost. Go hang out at someplace like the Huffington Post where 90% of your comments will be appreciated.
You are a disgrace, and I seriously dont understand how it is that you dont get punched in the face more often.
(http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm182/twyacht/smh.gif)
*I am done with this thread
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As usual FQ is 180 degrees off.
We should have killed Saddam in 91, but Bush #1 did not want to get bogged down in the Urban warfare that anyone with the IQ of a turnip could predict.
FQ shows his lack of research by his ridiculous claim that sanctions were working. As we were invading Baghdad, French and Russian planes were still delivering weapons and high end Night vision equipment.
Food for Oil ? Don't make me laugh, probably one of the most egregious scams ever run by the UN, the ones who made money were Putin and Company.
According to various sources, most recently Tariq Aziz, Saddam had indeed divested him self of his weapons program, however, because of his fears of retribution from his neighbors, (Iran ) he refused to prove this publicly, and THAT was the specific requirement of the UN resolutions, there fore whether he had them or not, he was in violation.
The only one that sanctions worked for was BJ Clinton, every time he had a hearing about Monica, he announced it by bombing something in Iraq as a diversion.
As to the War in Iraq, First off, what you and the other peace mongers can't comprehend is that you are talking about 2 different conflicts , the war "With " Iraq only lasted a couple weeks, it was followed by the major combat portion of the "War on Terror", where we have been fighting both Sunni and Shiite extremists, In other words, Al Queda AND Iran. Iraq was actually a good candidate for this since they were a relatively modern nation, used to having a strong central Govt. that could be replaced with another strong central Govt.
I have no doubt at all that as soon as we leave they will fight among themselves and the winner will establish another dictatorship of some sort because that is the only type of govt capable of maintaining order in that culture, our involvement however, helps assure that it's Iraqi's fighting , with out interference from AQ or Iran, and may even keep it at the political level and minimize the number of" bodies in the street". In Iraq, we have a clearly defined bench mark for "Victory", that is a functional Central Govt. that is capable of tending to it's own security.
Afghanistan is a completely different kettle of fish.
Our only stated objective for going there was to kill AQ members and punish the Taliban for harboring Bin Laden.
With the removal of the Taliban by the Northern Alliance, and the flight of AQ from Tora Bora that mission was complete, the alleged "Nation building we have been engaged in since is nothing but an expensive useless sop to liberal emotion and their inability to admit the need for a purely punitive operation. The fact, based on past history, is that, no matter what we do in that country, with in 6 months of us leaving they will remove any strong central Govt and revert to the decentralized "tribalism that has served them for hundreds of years.
People have condemned Karzia for talking to the Taliban, and the possibility of him doing a deal with them.
No matter what you think, he has no choice, The Pashtun's, (the ethnic group that the Taliban belong to ) are the largest minority in Afghanistan and Pakistan, any other solution would be like having a national referendum but leaving out Ca, NY, and Texas,
The British, and Russians have spent a couple hundred years triing to install a strong central govt in A-stan with out success, the only things we prove with our continued involvement is our naivety, and pigheadedness.
Will they continue to kill each other ? Of course. does any body truly care ? Not so much.
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Yawn. Another insightful and well written opinion by Tom B.
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Not to steer this back to being on topic, but I haven't heard anyone mention what BHO is doing while Bush is greeting returning troops. That's right! BHO is making a trip through Texas blaming Bush for all the ills of the world.
I have said it before, but I think it bears repeating. BHO has ruined the presidency for black Americans. Because the next time a "well spoken black man" runs for office, people are going to remember what happened the last time we did that. ::)
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Eric, you, as usuall, offer vitriol without arument. Don't get me wrong, your moral outrage act is quite immpressive. If Dana Carvey hadn't already mastered "The Church Lady" you could have had a money maker here. As it is? A swing and a miss. Get something resembling a real argument or stay home. My critique of this war is a conservative one. Don't believe me? Ask Pat Buchanan. I'm basically giving you his line because I think he's right. And as for my "disgraceful" comment about w? Whatever happened to that conservative argument about personal responsibility? I've got it, you seem to only find yours when blaming the other team ::) W was in charge. The buck stops with him.
As to the actual arguments? Well, here's my point. There were no serious connections betwen Sadam and Al Queda (a doctors visit not withstanding). In fact, the quickest way to die in Saddam's Iraq was to push for Sharia. Likewise, while Iraq was stable and Sunni controlled there was a reqional counterweight to Iran. Something to restrain their ambition from being a regional hegemon. My POV is simply that we launched an unneccessary war whose outcome weakens rather than strenghtens our interests in the region and has harmed our ability, via diplomatic and military exhaustion, to pursue our real enemies in Iran and with Al Queda. Afghanistan is a whole other topic.
FQ13
PS
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Eric, you, as usuall, offer vitriol without arument. Don't get me wrong, your moral outrage act is quite immpressive. If Dana Carvey hadn't already mastered "The Church Lady" you could have had a money maker here. As it is? A swing and a miss. Get something resembling a real argument or stay home. My critique of this war is a conservative one. Don't believe me? Ask Pat Buchanan. I'm basically giving you his line because I think he's right. And as for my "disgraceful" comment about w? Whatever happened to that conservative argument about personal responsibility? I've got it, you seem to only find yours when blaming the other team ::) W was in charge. The buck stops with him.
As to the actual arguments? Well, here's my point. There were no serious connections betwen Sadam and Al Queda (a doctors visit not withstanding). In fact, the quickest way to die in Saddam's Iraq was to push for Sharia. Likewise, while Iraq was stable and Sunni controlled there was a reqional counterweight to Iran. Something to restrain their ambition from being a regional hegemon. My POV is simply that we launched an unneccessary war whose outcome weakens rather than strenghtens our interests in the region and has harmed our ability, via diplomatic and military exhaustion, to pursue our real enemies in Iran and with Al Queda. Afghanistan is a whole other topic.
FQ13
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Shouldn't that read "FO" ? ;D
What you say is valid, as far as Iraq serving as a counter to Iran, however you are wrong about contacts between AQ and Saddam's intelligence apparatus, those have in fact been verified by both Mossad and MI 6.
You are also off base about the war being "unnecessary" . The presence of US forces in Iraq served as a magnet for AQ and it's wannabe's, how many stories have we heard about AQ members over there who had lived in the US ? Would you rather be walking past them on the street here ? It's the same for the rest of the world, We have killed a butt load of Saudis, Yemeni's, and Syrian's during our time in Iraq. It may seem heartless to send troops to serve as bait, but it did draw large numbers of radicals out from under their rocks for easier killing, and war is not something that can be successfully conducted on the basis of touchy feely BS, it has to be based on a heartless practicality.
As for Eric, I have to agree that he argues like a liberal.
FQ. Before you reply remember, I'm the guy who waded through all 3 volumes of "Gulag Archipelago", and the 2 volume KGB history "The Mitrokin Archive" for entertainment.
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I'm the guy who waded through all 3 volumes of "Gulag Archipelago", and the 2 volume KGB history "The Mitrokin Archive" for entertainment.
You're a better man than I am Gunga Din. ;)
As to the war in Iraq, you are spot on Tom.....
If we must fight terrorism, I suspect most people would rather us be fighting them on their soil than on American soil.
As to Bush and the war, I don't think he took the decision lightly and he probably (hopefully) was doing what he thought was the 'best preemptive move' at the time for our interests in the fight against terrorism. By posting the OP, I just thought it was cool that he goes out to show the troops that even though he sent them to do a tough job, he cares and respects them for doing it.
JMHOFWIW
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You're a better man than I am Gunga Din. ;)
By posting the OP, I just thought it was cool that he goes out to show the troops that even though he sent them to do a tough job, he cares and respects them for doing it.
JMHOFWIW
I think you meant "Gulag Din'. ;D
As to OP, agreed.
FQ13
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Subject: Denzel Washington
HAD TO SHARE THIS!!!
Remember this next time you walk up to the ticket window of your local movie theater with $10 in your hand.
The Media (Accidently?) missed this one!!!!
Please read this: The troops oversees would like you to send it to everybody you know.
Subject: Denzel Washington, and Brooks Army Medical Center.
Don't know whether you heard about this but Denzel Washington and his family visited the troops at Brook Army Medical Center, in San Antonio, Texas, (BAMC) the other day. This is where soldiers who have been evacuated from Germany come to be hospitalized in the United States, especially burn victims. There are some buildings there called Fisher Houses. The Fisher House is a Hotel where soldiers' families can stay, for little or no charge, while their soldier is staying in the Hospital. BAMC has quite a few of these houses on base, but as you can imagine, they are almost filled most of the time.
While Denzel Washington was visiting BAMC, they gave him a tour of one of the Fisher Houses. He asked how much one of them would cost to build. He took his check book out and wrote a check for the full amount right there on the spot.
The soldiers overseas were amazed to hear this story and want to get the word out to the American public, because it warmed their hearts to hear it. The question is - why do:
Britney Spears, Lindsay Lohan, Paris Hilton,
Tom Cruise
and other Hollywood fluff
make front page news with their ridiculous antics and Denzel Washington's Patriotism doesn't even make page 3 in the Metro section of any newspaper except the Local newspaper in San Antonio.
A true American and friend to all in uniform!
This needs as wide a distribution as we can create.
Please share it!
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This thread was definitely not intended to paint Bush as a saint......just to show a side of the man that the media seemed to forget.
He made a tough decision and the soldiers and their families paid a stiff price doing the job, but Bush didn't/doesn't just shrug that off as them 'just doing a job', he shows he remembers and respects them for it.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/bush/jogging.asp
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The Snopes article says W was interested in the prosthetic itself, that's from the Engineering training he got learning to fly ;D
I'm the same way about metal work, When I look at a gun I don't see "proprietary polymer finish", I see machining marks in the metal,
I look at a computer tower I don't notice what it says is inside, I see whether the corners were "coined" or "air bent".
I bet every one of you are the same when you come in contact with your industry.
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Something for everyone to remember when they bash Pres. Bush "W" - He did the best he could with the information he had. His father faced this, did what he thought was right, learned it was a mistake, and his son was following up. He was working in the shadow of an attack on our nation on our soil. He was being supported by nearly everyone in leadership ... even though today nearly everyone will deny it. And, today, we all have the advantage of hindsight!
As far as weapons of mass destruction - Please tell me the difference between a gallon of chemical in a warhead, an ounce of spent nuclear waste in a "dirty bomb," and a van packed with fertilizer, diesel fuel and scrap iron. The weapons changed over time, but they are still killing with them!
Monday morning quarterbacking is only good when dealing with Monday morning defenses. Our leaders make their decisions today, with the information they have today, and they pray that when the sun comes up in the morning it is still the best move.
FQ - Quit living in the rear view mirror! It is about today and how to make the best of it.
Good Show President Bush! He remembers who he is, what he was, and what these citizens have done and given for us.
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Been looking for these for a while,
The intel they worked with turned out to be a scam, big deal, it happens, but BOTH sides BELIEVED it .
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Hi;
Glad to see W out and about. I know he was reported to be speaking at some fund raisers a while back, but for the most part he is honoring the custom of staying out of the news for the first year of a new President. Well, it has been 18 months - so it is time for him to get out and about.
If I was returning from anywhere - I would be happy to say Hi, shake his hand and even get a pic if I could. He kept us safe after 9-11 up until he got out of office. What has been going on these past 18 months of "bama's opology tours?
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Something for everyone to remember when they bash Pres. Bush "W" - He did the best he could with the information he had. His father faced this, did what he thought was right, learned it was a mistake, and his son was following up. He was working in the shadow of an attack on our nation on our soil. He was being supported by nearly everyone in leadership ... even though today nearly everyone will deny it. And, today, we all have the advantage of hindsight!
As far as weapons of mass destruction - Please tell me the difference between a gallon of chemical in a warhead, an ounce of spent nuclear waste in a "dirty bomb," and a van packed with fertilizer, diesel fuel and scrap iron. The weapons changed over time, but they are still killing with them!
Monday morning quarterbacking is only good when dealing with Monday morning defenses. Our leaders make their decisions today, with the information they have today, and they pray that when the sun comes up in the morning it is still the best move.
FQ - Quit living in the rear view mirror! It is about today and how to make the best of it.
Good Show President Bush! He remembers who he is, what he was, and what these citizens have done and given for us.
My thoughts exactly, along with the suspicion that Bin Laden could be in collaboration with Saddam, when I was considering what I would have done if I had been in the hot seat.
With the intelligence available and given Bin Laden's shipping connections and the availability of nuclear waste, I could envision freighters loaded with as much nuclear waste as was available parked in every major harbor in the US. all being detonated as "dirty bombs" on the same day. If nuclear weapons were available, the damage potential would only be greater.
Bin Laden and Saddam would willingly work on a mutual attack of the US and I just could not see how I could wait for a "smoking gun" when it might be mushroom clouds in the port cities of the US.
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This thread was definitely not intended to paint Bush as a saint......just to show a side of the man that the media seemed to forget.
He made a tough decision and the soldiers and their families paid a stiff price doing the job, but Bush didn't/doesn't just shrug that off as them 'just doing a job', he shows he remembers and respects them for it.
In the story, the Sgt. says that in the weight room, Bush made the comment that the Sgt. wouldn't be able to do something, and the Sgt. said he had to do it to prove him wrong.
Bush knew exactly what effect him saying "you can't do it" would have on that soldier.
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You know, I've read a lot of posts on this thread critiquing me (putting it mildly ;D) for bashing W.. Oddly enough, this cheers me up. Not that I'm a misanthropre and just like pissing folks off (with a couple of exceptions ;D), but because y'all seemingly genuinely like W. Here's why this makes me happy, even though I obviously disagree. I haven't had a President in my political lifetime that I actually liked since Bush senior (the first president I was old enough to vote for). Him, I geunirly respected. I saw him as a Truman type of patriot. Clinton, W. and now BO? I view them as wastes of time. That kind of thinking leads to cynism and without hope, there will be no change. (sorry, couldn't resist ;D), but the point still holds. You have to have someone to be for, not just against or the whole process becomes just flat out bleak. I hope we get someone in 2012 that all of us can get behind.
FQ13
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Like I first posted, I knew I wasn't going to make you (FQ), throw your arms up and change your opinion or perspective.
I accept it, and move on. It's good to banter, debate, and argue, I know you won't join the Peace Corps, although those young indoctrinated wayward young women would Looooovvvveeeee you, it is what it is.
I agree with your very "broad" perspective of our last couple of Presidents. However, given the last 18 months of our current one, and the OP, Bush has more class, reverence, respect, and honor than BHO and Bubba combined.
History, after were long gone, will prove that, and in the same vein,,,,Jimmy Carter, Bubba and BHO, will always be the last quarter of the 20th centuries WORST Presidents.
Still want to go to Cuba? :-*
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FQ, where do I begin?
Ah screw it, why waste my breath?
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Like I first posted, I knew I wasn't going to make you (FQ), throw your arms up and change your opinion or perspective.
I accept it, and move on. It's good to banter, debate, and argue, I know you won't join the Peace Corps, although those young indoctrinated wayward young women would Looooovvvveeeee you, it is what it is.
I agree with your very "broad" perspective of our last couple of Presidents. However, given the last 18 months of our current one, and the OP, Bush has more class, reverence, respect, and honor than BHO and Bubba combined.
History, after were long gone, will prove that, and in the same vein,,,,Jimmy Carter, Bubba and BHO, will always be the last quarter of the 20th centuries WORST Presidents.
Still want to go to Cuba? :-*
I actually agree with a lot of this post. Except for one part. Go to Cuba? Unless you never leave the house, or for that matter turn on the TV or radio, Cuba has come to us.
You live in Miami. What has Cuba got that you don't?
A spanish language press and various entertainment channels and the need for a pocket dictionary to order at a restaraunt? Check.
Warm weather and sandy beaches? Check.
Cold rum served with an ocean front view? Check.
Nubile young latinas wearing very little to add to that view? Check.
Cafe con leche and Cuban sandwiches? Check and Check.
Idiots armed with AKs? Check.
Corrupt socialist thugs running the government? Check.
Why leave home? The only thing you're missing is the cigars (and they're about as hard to find as a coked up rich girl on South Beach). ;D
FQ13
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I was born n Miami, in the late 60's when it was a great place to be a kid. When the Liberty City riots, and little Mariel thing Castro provided us in the late 70's, my Father got us the hell out.
I live in western Broward County, close to the swamps, and escape routes. I never go to Miami, unless I have to, and I take extra mags, and larger calibers when I do.
South Beach was a junkie riddled slum, and now is highlighted on some reality shows, and glam and glitter paradise.....NOT!
I didn't come back down here because I wanted to, but because I had to.
Wouldn't mind some Cuban cigars though.
Sorry for the drift..
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I was born n Miami, in the late 60's when it was a great place to be a kid. When the Liberty City riots, and little Mariel thing Castro provided us in the late 70's, my Father got us the hell out.
I live in western Broward County, close to the swamps, and escape routes. I never go to Miami, unless I have to, and I take extra mags, and larger calibers when I do.
South Beach was a junkie riddled slum, and now is highlighted on some reality shows, and glam and glitter paradise.....NOT!
I didn't come back down here because I wanted to, but because I had to.
Wouldn't mind some Cuban cigars though.
Sorry for the drift..
Its a good drift. I think we've played the scene on the arument. I'm never going to like W and believe for paleo-con reasons that the war in Iraq was a bad idea. Others seem to like W. and take the neo-con view that a preemptive war was a good way to kill terrorists there rather than here. Fair enough. Better to argue about where to drink our rum. It doesn't get nearly as personal. ;D
FQ13