The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: garand4life on August 12, 2010, 11:13:52 AM
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Okay, with the loss of my job last year I had to sacrifice my beloved M&P15 AR platform rifle. I am now deadlocked between 2 excellent rifles. I then ask for the "family's" recommendation. If you could only have one AR rifle, which of the 2 would you prefer and why.
#1 A Ruger SR556 in 5.56 ($1499)
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#2 A Smith & Wesson M&P15T ($1599 and comes with a Mail-in for 5 PMAGS from S&W)
Both have full length railed hand guards but the S&W is free floated and I don't know that the Ruger is (I think it is).
I don't have a carbine right now and I am fighting the urge to go all out and get an ACR. I loved my M&P but this presents the opportunity to go piston. I had no issues with my old AR and the only reason I'm deadlocked is that for both have outstanding performance track records and S&W makes a hell of a gun. I have heard nothing but awesome things about the Ruger as well. Please guide me oh wise one's (and FQ, just kidding).
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Okay, with the loss of my job last year I had to sacrifice my beloved M&P15 AR platform rifle. I am now deadlocked between 2 excellent rifles. I then ask for the "family's" recommendation. If you could only have one AR rifle, which of the 2 would you prefer and why.
#1 A Ruger SR556 in 5.56 ($1499)
-or-
#2 A Smith & Wesson M&P15T ($1599 and comes with a Mail-in for 5 PMAGS from S&W)
Both have full length railed hand guards but the S&W is free floated and I don't know that the Ruger is (I think it is).
I don't have a carbine right now and I am fighting the urge to go all out and get an ACR. I loved my M&P but this presents the opportunity to go piston. I had no issues with my old AR and the only reason I'm deadlocked is that for both have outstanding performance track records and S&W makes a hell of a gun. I have heard nothing but awesome things about the Ruger as well. Please guide me oh wise one's (and FQ, just kidding).
While I have no personal experience with either, I DO know that Teresa is STILL singing the praises of the Ruger.
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After everything I've read about the Ruger I'm hard pressed to find a better rifle. But, at the same time I love the quality S&W put into the M&P series and I know the inner workings fairly well. Going to the piston has me at a disadvantage. What, at this point, attracts me to the Ruger is the cleaner and cooler running chamber and the thinner profile handguards. But the Smith has the 5 free mags, the 2 stage trigger, and the more commonly available spare parts market.
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After everything I've read about the Ruger I'm hard pressed to find a better rifle. But, at the same time I love the quality S&W put into the M&P series and I know the inner workings fairly well. Going to the piston has me at a disadvantage. What, at this point, attracts me to the Ruger is the cleaner and cooler running chamber and the thinner profile handguards. But the Smith has the 5 free mags, the 2 stage trigger, and the more commonly available spare parts market.
I think you'e just answered your own question. You, for whatever reasons are comfortable with a Smith and you are familiar with it. The parts are there and you get some freebies. Decision made. Only thing I'd advise is to research that trigger and make sure its gremlin free. A two stage trigger is a plus, but its also something to potentially go wrong. Make sure its solid. Honestly, you could probably make a case for either, but unless I got a consensus from folks who know one way or the other? I'd go with the one you are most comfortable with. Just my .02.
FQ13
PS try the AR-15 forum, lots of helpful folks
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Thanks FQ,
The only reason I'm still so up in the air is the additional flexibility of piston driven guns. Where I live now is a humid woody area but I have every intention of living in NM again and with my old AR the heat from running the gun and it being in the prolonged 110 degree sun made for some scary moments worrying it would cook off a round in the chamber. I like the idea of getting into a gas piston that has the adj gas regulator but I don't know if that's entirely necessary. I guess I'm looking for some pro cons which I know we've had a lot of threads on. So maybe one of you who have a SR556 can chime in on things that you like specifically about the gun or things you noticed that are different in terms of maintaining the gun versus a G.I. AR15. Both are high quality but is there anything that really sells the SR556 versus a traditional AR other than the Piston system?
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I've a SR556 for over a year now (I also own a Bushie M4). I am in no way unhappy with the Bushie, but I'm thrilled with the SR556. It's just a tad bit front-end heavy due to the piston, but only when not shooting; just comparing. Not only can I run round after round through the SR556 without any bolt carrier/assmebly/group heat build up, but I can run the Wolf coated ammo through it without any stuck-case worries.
I'm an Defensive Firearms Instructor here in Oregon and now use the SR556 for all of my training and demostrations. I've ran close to 8,000 rounds through the gun without a single problem of any kind. I use PMags, Thermold, Pro Mag, Green and Gray follower steel mags. All perform without issue. I mounted an NC Star Halographic Red Dot that is co-withnessed with the stock Troy iron sights. All works great. The NC Star I picked up on Amazon for $33.00. After 2,000 rounds it's still holding Zero. It's set up for either a One or Two-Point tactical sling. The only thing I did different is replace the factory Ruger/Troy plastic rail covers with UTG rubber rail covers. The Troy work just fine, I just prefer the UTG, nothing more.
I'm starting to see more and more piston guns (all makes) showing up on training days out at the Club.
FYI. The Bushie is a great little gun. It runs hot and I wouldn't think of running the Wolf coated ammo throught. I heard too many horror stories of the coating material melting and gumming up the chamber and cases getting stuck.
Just my humble two cents, but I believe you will be very happy with the Ruger.
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Well hate to say it but niether given the choices you gave. I would go with a Stag, why because they are the base for the M&P and they cost less. I believe in getting value for my dollar. Why pay for a name when you don't have to. Flame suite on just in case.
Mike Mc
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Well hate to say it but niether given the choices you gave. I would go with a Stag, why because they are the base for the M&P and they cost less. I believe in getting value for my dollar. Why pay for a name when you don't have to. Flame suite on just in case.
Mike Mc
True, Stag had a huge hand in the M&P. My old M&P15 was a stag base. However S&W is now manufacturing them in their own facilities at last they told me. Thompson Center Barrels and uppers/lowers by S&W with parts from Troy and Magpul and the like for the furniture.
I think that overall the S&W just feels a little better in terms of fit and finish. But I do like Stag.
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Shot my co-workers M&P 15T several times, it's traditional AR, through and through. Very light, easy to add accessories. The price when they first came out was around $900.00 :-\.
Just like my Sig556, which was around $1200 in Feb 08. Now they are both more. I just wanted something "other" than a traditional AR, and now want an exact duplicate of deepwaters FAL in .308.
However, Sportsman Guide is selling complete Colt M16A1 packages (everything but the lower receiver, and trigger disconnect), for $599.97.
I know your a S&W fan, (so am I), and it is a fine rifle. The Ruger I have seen, held, fondled, but never shot one. So I cannot speak to actual range comparisons.
For the money, the M&P is a great choice. So is getting a complete kit upper from Colt, and throwing it on a DPMS lower, for less money.
Is this going to be a comp. rifle? Or just something to have back in NM? I like the additional weight up front my Sig, and the SR has it stabilizes the weapon (for me), when rapid firing. Especially, when I get the moderators approved Titan Compensator. ::)
(Eric uses his Sig556 as his primary BTW) ;)
Just another .02 cents, for ya'. The Stag is about the same and, as others posted, the same in the M&P category, BUT cheaper.
Please let us know what you decide on.
Take Care.
tw
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You can never go wrong going with Ruger. Im just waiting on the carbine to become available.
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Stag has a piston for $1100 MSRP
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I don't think you need either at those price levels, the modern quality AR's work and work well, the Ruger still uses a buffer spring and tube so does not give an advantage for a folding stock for instance. Personally I would go for DPMS, BUSHIE, STAG, ROCK RIVER for 700 to 800 and then put a free float handguard, of your choice, the Troy sights are excellent and the pair will set you back 230 bucks maybe more. I like the V tac forends about 150 and easy to install. If I really wanted a piston rifle I would look at the Para Ordnance TTR. I think price range is right in the middle. I have 7 AR's, and they all work, none are piston rifles.
Good luck with your choice. ;D
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Hey Operator, ever heard of ADAX? They are a boutique company making AR piston uppers. They seem to be favored on some of the AR boards, but I've never heard of them other wise. Any thoughts? The reason I ask is because the OP might save cash by buying a lower from one of the usual suspects and then getting a gas piston upper to match rather than buying stock.
FQ13
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I'd go with th e Ruger just for the piston.
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I'd go with th e Ruger just for the piston.
see thats exactly why I would not get the ruger.
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I'd go with the M&P , It's a proven platform for you.
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Ruger just announced the SR556/6.8 SPC.
I think they did it just to make things even tougher for you, Garand :D :D
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I'm still p-o'd at S&W for caving to the Carter administration and their idiot locking system. (Crusader holds a grudge??? I don't think so.) Plus, I have been absolutely thrilled with every Ruger I've owned (or shot). None of my Rugers have ever needed to be sent back to the factory, but I am told by those rare birds who have had trouble that Ruger is extremely responsive. Between the two, Ruger is my choice.
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RUGER
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I think your question is better asked as,....... Do you want a D.I. platform AR-15, or a Piston rifle? With that said why limit yourself to just the S&W, (D.I.), and the Ruger, (Piston)? Personally I think there are better versions of both. Your price limit is high enough to let yourself be more diversified. In a D.I. AR-15 rifle a Colt, while over rated, is still considered to be one of the best. In piston weapons the P.O.F. and LWRC rank among the highest rated. I have both 2 Colts, (a 6920 and a 6940 Monolith), and 2, LWRC Piston rifles, (a Paul Howe CSAT Rifle, and a standard M-6 A-2).
I think both the Colt, (I HATE their buyer be damned attitude), and the LWRC, (super customer service and support), can define their platforms performance at the highest levels. One issue you won't see with LWRC Piston rifles are any issues with carrier tilt. LWRC addressed this issue very early on in the design and production of their rifles. Ruger, not so much. Many have shown carrier tilt issues after only 1,500 rounds. Ruger has reportedly addressed this, and later production rifles have had this corrected.
Another thing to consider is that Ruger, while having been in the firearms business for a very long time, is relatively new to AR-15 production. The SR-556 is their first attempt into this market. LWRC has had their hands in the piston AR-15 market for several years, and the brass in the company has decades of combined experience designing and building piston driven AR-15's.
Colt, (again I hate their corporate attitude and arrogance), has been in the D.I. AR-15 business since Stoner invented the damn thing. They do produce an all Mil-Spec gun, even though I think that is more of a selling point than an actual concern for today's civilian AR-15 buyer. I have to admit above all, their guns run damn well, and of course it goes without saying, have been battle proven in several wars.
Bottom line. You are going to be spending a lot of your hard earned money on this weapon. I would say unless you have your heart set on either the Ruger or the S&W for whatever reason, you might be better off expanding your horizions and going with a different, more proven model of either platform. There are many good guns out there, and it is currently a buyers market , especially for AR-15 rifles. Bill T.
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For the price your listing for the M&P I can basically put together 2 comparable rifles, even with S&W parts if desired. In a one to one choice I'd go Ruger hands down.