The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: david86440 on August 14, 2010, 12:32:50 AM
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I missed him when he was in town!
http://www.appeal-democrat.com/news/deer-98041-baiting-nugent.html
Rock star and gun rights advocate Ted Nugent was fined $1,750 today in Yuba County Superior Court after pleading no contest to baiting deer on his hunting show "Spirit of the Wild."
Yuba City attorney Jack Kopp, representing Theodore Anthony Nugent, 61, entered a no contest plea to Department of Fish and Game charges of baiting deer and not having a deer tag "countersigned" at the closest possible location, said Deputy District Attorney John Vacek.
Baiting deer is legal in some states but not in California, said state Fish and Game spokesman Patrick Foy. Baiting supplies are sold at some outdoor stores, he said.
The deer was killed in El Dorado County toward the end of deer hunting season last fall but brought to Yuba County. Two co-defendants, Mitchell Neil Moore and Ross Albert Patterson, live in Yuba County, said Vacek.
Moore was a photographer on the show. The role of Patterson, who pleaded no contest to taking an animal with bait, was not clear, said Foy.
Moore and Patterson also were represented by Kopp and did not appear in court. Moore, who pleaded no contest to possessing an animal illegally, agreed to a fine of $700. Patterson agreed to a fine of $1,225, Kopp told Judge James F. Dawson.
All three men were ordered to pay the fines by Oct. 1.
Nugent was originally facing a charge of killing a "spike" — an immature buck — on the program but the charge was dropped during negotiations between his attorney and the Yuba County District Attorney's Office, said Foy.
A spike is a deer with two antlers that have not yet "forked," Foy said.
A Department of Fish and Game warden saw the show in March and "just about fell out of his chair" when he saw Nugent with the buck, according to Foy.
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Shooting deer over bait? In some states its considered to be in poor taste, in others, its just how things are done. As long as its a legal animal and in season? I might have an opinion, but its not my business, and certainly not the government's. You play your game, I'll play mine. Its just about the local hunting culture and everyone else can piss up a rope. The Spike? Hell, what's wrong with that? Biologically its the most expendable animal in the herd. Its unlikely to survive thre winter, and is uneccessary for reproduction (kind of like a Congressman ;D). I fail to see any reason not to shoot one, again, like a Congressman. Leave Ted alone. >:(
FQ13 Only in Kalifornia ::)
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It's political, they just wanted to flex some muscle, that's why they are messing with the Photographer
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The Spike? Hell, what's wrong with that?
Hunting over bait somewhat diminishes the sporting aspect of hunting, in my opinion. However, if the local law allows it and it doesn't bother you, go for it. Killing the spike is a different story, though. Among serious hunters, who typically practice herd management, this is definitely faux pa. It's different if your attempting to harvest game for food. Hey, under those circumstances, if it's brown, it's down. Ted sort of sullied his image with hunters and non hunters alike by a) breaking the law, and b) doing so for a spike (which I gather is also illegal where he was hunting). He should have at least had the common sense not to use the footage for his hunting show. I just hoped for a little better conduct out of a self-made representative of our sport. ???
Swoop
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Swoop
This where we get into "local hunting cultures" and game management. Me I won't shoot a deer over 100 yards away and I would rather kiss my cousins (rather homely girls, even minus the Yech! factor. ;D) than shoot a deer over bait. Thats how I was brought up in Fl. However in Texas, deer corn can be bought at Circle K (along with rounds like .257 and 7mm/.08), which kind of makes up for it, considering they also have beer and nachos. ;D Point being, I play the game my way, you play it your way and as long as its legal, well, I'll keep my opinion to myself.
As for the spike? It depends on how you are managing your deer herd. Do you want lots of trophy bucks, or just lots of deer? If its bucks, protect the spikes. If its deer? Cull them. Again, its not a moral issue, just a local one.
FQ13
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NH the horns have to be 2 inches long for a spike horn to be legal.
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In No Dak a spike buck that the antlers are under the length of the ears is considered anterless. Don't really have an opinion of baiting one way or the other. Definitely don't care about baiting if it's for the meat, but if it's illegal then I do
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Heck, the DNR rangers have been pushing to legalize hunting over bait (with some limitations) for a while around here.
Trying to thin an overwhelming population in some areas.
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It's political, they just wanted to flex some muscle, that's why they are messing with the Photographer
You know I really doubt thats the case here, that area ted would fit in nicly.( minus the tweakers of corse). Baiting deer in CA = illegal. honestly, a $1700 fine from the DFG is tiny, they are normall 5 digets. They do have a big prob with poachers up there, so chances are very good, you are going to get stoped by a DFG officer and checked really good if they see you hunting.
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Heck, the DNR rangers have been pushing to legalize hunting over bait (with some limitations) for a while around here.
Trying to thin an overwhelming population in some areas.
That's my point. Local conditions should dictate the rules. personally? I kill most deer within bow hunting ranges even though I use a rifle because the stalk is the thrill for me. I don't like tree stands and won't use bait and I'd rather kill a doe or a spike as I want meat in the freezer rather than anlers on the wall. None of that makes me better or worse than someone who hunts differently. Use a bow? Hunt only trophy bucks? Shoot them at 400 yards over a feeder from a stand, or from ten yards with a long bow in the woods? Not my problem. I'm happy to let the Fish and Game folks tell me how many I can kill, what sort and when. Beyond that? Not my business.
FQ13 who will not brag about or apologize for his doe shot at thirty yards with a 300 yard rifle.
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That's my point. Local conditions should dictate the rules. personally? I kill most deer within bow hunting ranges even though I use a rifle because the stalk is the thrill for me. I don't like tree stands and won't use bait and I'd rather kill a doe or a spike as I want meat in the freezer rather than anlers on the wall. None of that makes me better or worse than someone who hunts differently. Use a bow? Hunt only trophy bucks? Shoot them at 400 yards over a feeder from a stand, or from ten yards with a long bow in the woods? Not my problem. I'm happy to let the Fish and Game folks tell me how many I can kill, what sort and when. Beyond that? Not my business.FQ13 who will not brag about or apologize for his doe shot at thirty yards with a 300 yard rifle.
I disagree with it being known of your biz, lots of very unsafe hunters out there. There needs to be some type of safety aspect built in.
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Thing is he SHOULD know the local laws! Good lord he has a production crew to look it up! REALLY DUMB MISTAKE! Looks bad for all of us!
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Thing is he SHOULD know the local laws! Good lord he has a production crew to look it up! REALLY DUMB MISTAKE! Looks bad for all of us!
And that's really the point here. If I had a crack research team planning my days for me I'd probably make very few mistakes. As it is, I don't have the team, and I do make some mistakes (a fact that Bunny will point out to anyone who will listen). But Uncle Ted DOES have the team and SHOULD know better. Makes no difference that he claims not to be a sport hunter and only hunts to put food on the table--the law trumps the intent. The dude had to be embarrassed, though.
Offered for thought by Crusader (who is very grateful that wild pigs LOVE corn). ;)
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ted always talks about back straps, what about the rest of the animal? I would be willing to bet that he sees very little of the rest of the deer come accross his plate.
Does anyone know how many deer he takes a year? Its got to be atleast in the 20s. You can feed alot of people for a very long time off 20 deer, not so much if you only take the back straps.
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Every deer that I shoot all of it goes across my table. I give the brains and liver to a neighbor. Those are the two things I will not eat and he is too old to hunt. Baiting if it is legal and you can afford it so be it, not my cup of tea.
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ted always talks about back straps, what about the rest of the animal? I would be willing to bet that he sees very little of the rest of the deer come accross his plate.
Does anyone know how many deer he takes a year? Its got to be atleast in the 20s. You can feed alot of people for a very long time off 20 deer, not so much if you only take the back straps.
He doesn't only eat the backstraps. He processes the entire animal, feeds his family, gives to crew and friends. Ted doesn't waste the meat!
Not excusing the infraction, but if you watch the news you will find there are two types of people filming hunting and shooting shows: There of those that have made mistakes or pushed the limits and been caught; and there are those that will. When you travel the nation doing this mistakes will happen. All it takes is one moment of brain fade to see deer bait in the store and use it rather than think "this state doesn't allow this," and you find yourself in court. The failure to tag immediately is a common infraction if you watch these shows. Through the production process they need to make the decision "am I going to tag according to law, or am I going to get the recovery and story on tape while the emotions are high?" Good tv means that law is the most broken in the books. If you doubt that, just watch the fishing shows for how "catch and release" fish are handled.
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He doesn't only eat the backstraps. He processes the entire animal, feeds his family, gives to crew and friends. Ted doesn't waste the meat!
Not excusing the infraction, but if you watch the news you will find there are two types of people filming hunting and shooting shows: There of those that have made mistakes or pushed the limits and been caught; and there are those that will. When you travel the nation doing this mistakes will happen. All it takes is one moment of brain fade to see deer bait in the store and use it rather than think "this state doesn't allow this," and you find yourself in court. The failure to tag immediately is a common infraction if you watch these shows. Through the production process they need to make the decision "am I going to tag according to law, or am I going to get the recovery and story on tape while the emotions are high?" Good tv means that law is the most broken in the books. If you doubt that, just watch the fishing shows for how "catch and release" fish are handled.
still no excuse, you get a copy of the regs when you draw your deer tag. Who ever signed for that tag( which would be ted) it making the statement that you know the regs and will fallow them. clearly he didn't do either. Oh yeah CA has a draw system, you can't just go down to the local DFG office and get tags, you must sign all that stuff before the draw takes place. he had to been able to find a hour some time and read the 25 pages or so in the weeks before he was on the hunt.
you don't have to break the law to have good TV.
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From a quality game management standpoint, shooting spikes makes sense. A year and half deer with good feed and genetics should be a forkhorn (2 points a side). If your a antler nut, getting that gene from the pool makes sense.
From an eating point of view, spike bucks are prime eating. I would rather shoot does for food and management but to each his own.
Growning up in PA hunting over bait was a big NO-NO. In KY is is pretty standard. Using dogs to run deer was a big fine in PA but when I had a chance to hunt that way in VA is was a real hoot and the deer still won the day. I'm 0-3 in VA but still love to hear the dogs work.
Uncle Ted should have known better. He cowboyed up and paid the fine. SCI will probably revoke his membersip for a year. What the NRA will do is unknown.