The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: Solus on August 23, 2010, 08:13:38 PM
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I haven't attended any Frontsight training courses, so I can't vouch for their quality.
I received an email from them offering their $2000 defensive handgun course for $69.
The details of the offer are copied from the email and posted below.
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If you respond immediately, you can attend Front Sight's Four Day Defensive Handgun Course and over four full days of expertly delivered live-fire range drills, live-fire tactical simulators, and extremely interesting, educational and thought-provoking lectures, leave with a level of Skill at Arms with the handgun that far exceeds law enforcement and military standards.
This Four Day Defensive Handgun Course is the same course that normally sells for $2,000.
This Four Day Defensive Handgun Course is the same course that starts at 7:30am each day and ends after 6:00pm each day (except on the third evening, which ends two hours AFTER dusk due to low light and night firing exercises), for over 40 hours of expertly supervised, hands-on firearms training that is GREAT for the entire family!
This Four Day Defensive Handgun Course is the same course that hundreds of thousands of our students rave about and return to Front Sight regularly to attend again, bringing family and friends with them.
This Four Day Defensive Handgun Course is the same course that Marine Corps officers and SWAT officers (paying their own money) attend to receive a level of training they cannot get in their own departments.
This Four Day Defensive Handgun Course is the same course that is perfect for the entire family because of the caring and compassionate manner in which you are treated by Front Sight's stellar staff.
This Four Day Defensive Handgun Course is for YOU and every member of your family and all your friends IF YOU RESPOND IMMEDIATELY.
So what is this $2,000 Four Day Defensive Handgun Course that provides you with over 40 hours of intensive, expertly delivered and supervised training by Front Sight's stellar staff on Front Sight's world class facilities, in a caring and compassionate manner, that is great for the entire family going to cost you?
Only $69. I will spell it out so you know it is not a typo... Sixty nine dollars.
That's right, only $69. https://www.myfrontsight.com/secure/greatest.php
Tell me, where else in the firearms training industry have you ever seen ANYONE offer the masses over 40 hours of intensified, hands-on, expertly delivered and supervised handgun training by the best firearms training instructors in the industry on arguably the best training facilities in the industry, provided in a compassionate and caring manner that is perfect for every member of the family?
(Here is where you are going to do exactly what I said you would do and start talking to yourself, asking WHY is Dr. Piazza doing this? and HOW can Dr. Piazza do this? And while you are asking yourself all these questions, the other 322,513 subscribers to my Gun Training Reports are securing your course for themselves... Quit doubting my intentions and take advantage of the offer before all the courses are grabbed and I have to shut down this page.)
And once you secure your course, it has no expiration date, so you attend it when convenient for you in the future. The only restriction is you must attend the course mid-week, Monday through Thursday.
There is great benefit to attending mid week with hotels having lower rates, flights having lower fares and rental cars being more accessible with lower costs.
So Grab YOUR $69 Four Day Defensive Handgun Course NOW
https://www.myfrontsight.com/secure/greatest.php
So what's the catch? Honestly there is no catch. I have done my best to try to explain Front Sight's Purpose and the WHY and HOW of this offer. The fact that we can now offer mid-week courses doubles the training opportunities for our lifetime members and those students who have certificates to attend our courses--and gives you the training opportunity of a lifetime.
If you have ever wanted to gain a level of skill with a handgun that exceeds the levels found in the law enforcement and military community, and you want it delivered in a caring and compassionate manner that is great for your entire family, and you want to save money on travel and lodging in the process by taking advantage of this amazing, unbelievable and unprecedented opportunity to attend over 40 hours of Front Sight's Four Day Defensive Handgun Course mid-week, Monday through Thursday for a one-time-only offer of $69, and you want to attend right now or in the future when it is convenient for you, THEN RESPOND IMMEDIATELY. https://www.myfrontsight.com/secure/greatest.php
Here is How it Works...
Simply click on this link and it will take you to the registration page where you register, set up your Front Sight account and pay $69 to secure a mid-week, Monday through Thursday, Four Day Defensive Handgun Course.
Upon completing the registration process, you will receive an immediate receipt and confirmation number indicating you have a mid-week, Monday through Thursday, Four Day Defensive Handgun Course on file under your account name with Front Sight.
At any time in the future simply go to our website and use the on-line Course Application process to select the mid-week course date you wish and we will place you in your course and e-mail you your course enrollment confirmation letter.
SIMPLE, EASY and EFFICIENT.
We now have mid-week, Monday through Thursday, Four Day Defensive Handgun courses on our schedule in September,. October, November and December.
Our 2011 schedule will be posted on the website in October and we will have even more mid-week course dates throughout 2011.
So click on this link to secure YOUR mid-week, Monday through Thursday, 40 plus hour, Four Day Defensive Handgun Course for only $69.
Have more questions?
OK, Here are Answers to Frequently Asked Questions, but don't wait too long because this offer will sell out quickly and the page will be taken down immediately.
Here are answers to the Most Frequently Asked Questions about this amazing offer:
Q. Can I purchase more than one of these mid-week, Monday through Thursday, Four Day Defensive Handgun Courses?
A. Yes, purchase as many as you wish. They are transferable so you can give them to family and friends.
Q. Can I e-mail this offer to others?
A. Yes, please do.
Q. If I purchase the mid-week, Monday through Thursday, Four Day Defensive Handgun Course can I use it at any time in the future?
A. Yes, there is no expiration date on the course once you purchase it.
Q. Is this mid-week, Monday through Thursday, Four Day Defensive Handgun Course for $69 EXACTLY the same as the Four Day Defensive Handgun Course listed on your website and brochure for $2,000?
A. Yes, the very same course.
Q. Can I trade in other offers I have purchased towards this one?
A. No, this is a stand-alone offer.
Q. What are the hours of the Four Day Course?
A. It starts at 7:30am each day and ends after 6:00pm each day (except on the third evening which ends two hours AFTER dusk due to low light and night firing exercises) for over 40 hours of expertly supervised hands-on firearms training that is GREAT for the entire family!
Q. Is it too physical for elderly or disabled people?
A. We have trained people in their 90's. As long as you can walk up to the firing line, stand for 10 minutes to shoot and walk back, we will work with you to make sure you do well.
Q. Am I guaranteed to get into the course that I select to attend?
A. Yes, as long as you register for your selected course at least two weeks before the course date, you will be guaranteed a spot in the course.
Q. How do I apply for a course date?
A. After you purchase your course you will receive an immediate on-line receipt for your purchase and we will place a mid-week, Monday through Thursday, Four Day Defensive Handgun Course on file under your account name. You can then return to the on-line application page at any time and enroll in a mid week, Monday through Thursday, Four Day Defensive Handgun Course and we will place you in the course.
Q. Do I receive a confirmation for the course enrollment?
A. Yes, once you complete the on-line Application for Instruction at least two weeks before the course date you select, we will e-mail you a Confirmation Letter.
Q. What is in the Confirmation Letter?
A. Everything you need to know to prepare for the course. See the Confirmation Letter in the Frequently Asked Questions for a copy of the standard confirmation letter we send.
Q. Are there any other costs for the course?
A. There is a $50 criminal background check fee that must be completed on all students, even CCW holders, law enforcement and military personnel. You are also responsible for travel, lodging, food and ammo.
Q. Where is the training located?
A. On our world-class 550-acre firearms training facility near Las Vegas, Nevada.
Q. Are there reasonable hotels available?
A. Most students currently stay in one of three hotels in the town of Pahrump, 20 minutes from our training site that provide special rates for our students that range from $35 to $75 per night. See the Hotel List in the Frequently Asked Questions for a list of hotels.
Q. Do we bring our own gun or do you have rentals available?
A. You can bring your own gun, or we rent everything you need for the Four Day Handgun Course for only $100.
Q. How do I transport my gun on the airlines?
A. See the Frequently Asked Questions for the easy, proper procedure for Weapon Transportation.
Q. What's the catch?
A. There is no catch. I know that once you attend a mid-week, Monday through Thursday, Four Day Defensive Handgun Course, you will want to attend everything we offer AND will also tell everyone you know to come to Front Sight. So you will then be helping me positively change the image of gun ownership in our lifetimes even faster by spreading the good word about Front Sight.
Q. What else do I need to know about the offer?
A. There is nothing else to know about the offer. Just take advantage of it. For any other questions that I did not answer here, PLEASE go to Front Sight's Frequently Asked Questions to get answers to most if not all your questions.
So Don't Wait Any Longer. This Offer Will Be Gone and THIS LINK will be Deactivated as Soon as the Last Confirmation Receipt is Taken.
Get YOUR mid-week, Monday through Thursday, Four Day Defensive Handgun Course NOW (and get one for every member of your family too!)
I look forward to Front Sight providing you and your entire family with the Comfort of Skill at Arms!
Sincerely,
Dr. Ignatius Piazza
Founder and Director
Front Sight Firearms Training Institute
P.O. Box 2619
Aptos, CA 95001
http://www.frontsight.com
info@frontsight.com
1.800.987.7719
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If Piazza is involved I can all but guarantee you there IS a catch. You just won't see or find it until you get there. No one gives away something of value for nothing. Least of all him. It isn't what he explains, it's what he doesn't. Bill T.
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If Piazza is involved I can all but guarantee you there IS a catch. You just won't see or find it until you get there. No one gives away something of value for nothing. Least of all him. Bill T.
He is a salesman. And he likes to brag that Frontsight has doubled the number of folks taking the classes every year.
I suspect this has been a bad year for training, as it has for most everything else, and he won't make that number unless he starts giving away classes.
I'd like to hear how you were "caught" by him?
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it doesn't say anything about how much ammo to bring...
big red flag.
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I'd like to hear how you were "caught" by him?
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&aq=1&oq=Dr.+Ignatius+Piazz&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GUEA_enUS362US362&q=dr.+ignatius+piazza+scam
I can read. Google his name, you'll get the phone book. Usually followed by the words "Scam", "Fraud", and or "Judgement". This guy makes Marc Rich and Tony Rezko look like choir boys. I see zero reason to become involved with anyone financially for any reason with a track record like this guy's got. Where is the reward? Bill T.
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Things that appear to be too good to be true generally are too good to be true.
Michael B
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He had an add in July's issue of GUNS Magazine offering a training package that includes a "free gun" in the deal...........
https://www.frontsight.com/free-gun.asp
Wonder what the price tag is?
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If Savage Arms, one of the most established, innovative gun companies in the country, was offering $2,000.00 .338 Lapua rifles for $69.00 for one month only, everyone would be suspect, and rightfully so. This guy offers basically the same deal price wise, and he's getting people to buy into it. Give me a break. Bill T.
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If Savage Arms, one of the most established, innovative gun companies in the country, was offering $2,000.00 .338 Lapua rifles for $69.00 for one month only, everyone would be suspect, and rightfully so. This guy offers basically the same deal price wise, and he's getting people to buy into it. Give me a break. Bill T.
Agreed 100%.
That was kinda what I was trying getting with my sarcastic 'price tag' question. ;D
It may be really decent quality training, I don't know, but like several have already stated (up to and including the Illustrious MB), you usually 'get what you pay for' or if the deal seems too good to be true.........there are usually always hidden costs.
It's one of those situations, like a used auto, where you pays your money and you takes your chances.
I figure it turns out to be one of those things where you must use their ammo only (for safety reasons, of course) and they will be glad to sell it to you for a 'nominal' fee.
Bottom line, I'm not going to totally dismiss it, if I don't know all the facts, but I'd be really leery.
TJMHO,FWIW.
8)
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Yeah, that really pegs the meter.
(http://i755.photobucket.com/albums/xx191/saharrold/bsmeter.gif)
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One of those times where stupid crooks prove themselves to be stupid crooks. Lets say he was serious. Times were tough and his training is great but LEOs can't afford to come because of department cutbacks, he wants to drum up new customers in the hopes of getting repeat business, etc.. Then offer it at $800, with RO ammo, that would make the cost say $1200. That, I might actually go for. Throw in some blackout dates and no cancellations. It would seem real. This? Only $69 and a free oriental bamboo steamer? If we weren't a little paranoid we wouldn't be interested in his class in the first place. Who does he think he's dealing with here? Please. ::)
FQ13
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I have never heard any thing good about this guy
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I have never heard any thing good about this guy
I've not heard much good about him either....unless it is in an email he sends me.
And I have heard bad things about his land development project at the range site in which many folks (a number I saw was 4000+) have invested. A lawsuit was filed and it was settled with a class action settlement.
I also saw a lawsuit he filed against an ex RO for liable which was settled out of court.
And I read of another customer who had problems with his involvement with Scientology.
Haven't heard of any one who has attended a course saying they are anything but top quality and professional...even those involved in the trouble above.
I have not heard anyone saying they were cheated or did not get what they pay for with his training offers.
But I have not known anyone personally who has taken any of the training....folks on this forum, for instance, only his published reviews of the training.
If I lived within short driving distance of the site, I'd give it a go for that price.
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Hey, for $69 bucks you could afford to walk away.
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Hey, for $69 bucks you could afford to walk away.
And this is the catch ;D
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And this is the catch ;D
Exactly. He's already into you for the $69.00. You are in fact into yourself for the time off of work, gas, food, and lodging to get there. Not to mention the endless miles of God barren desert to get to "Pahrump", or wherever the hell he will hold you hostage at. You show up at his doorstep, and suddenly he "explains" to you the $69.00, 4 day course is actually $1,427.62, plus "association fee", along with a small "duration and acquisition fee" that is required because the Moon is only in 3/4 phase causing a gravitational pull of your shots drastically to the left.
He then goes on to tell you it is not an issue at all simply because he has a "on-site" gunsmith who has 16,000 hours of combat pistol, gunsmithing experience, and can easily correct your sights to the "Piazza Quotient". This of course will make you an experienced combat shooter worthy of star billing in any shootout you yourself may in fact gravitate to in future encounters. All very difficult, I might add without his easily obtainable expertise for the unheard of low price of the original $69.00.
I should also add at this time he will inform you of his easily purchasable ammo at $34.97 a box that has the now famous Piazza "offset bullet jackets" that will combat this gravitational yaw your cheap combat ammo will be exposed to on his state of the art range. You will feel honored to purchase it because it comes with a accompanied glass of chilled, white wine, that in no way, shape, or form will match the whining you will be doing after you finish his "expert" course. Stay home with the woman. Cheaper, better, and much more effective. Bill T.
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Exactly. He's already into you for the $69.00. You are in fact into yourself for the time off of work, gas, food, and lodging to get there. Not to mention the endless miles of God barren desert to get to "Pahrump", or wherever the hell he will hold you hostage at. You show up at his doorstep, and suddenly he "explains" to you the $69.00, 4 day course is actually $1,427.62, plus "association fee", along with a small "duration and acquisition fee" that is required because the Moon is only in 3/4 phase causing a gravitational pull of your shots drastically to the left.
He then goes on to tell you it is not an issue at all simply because he has a "on-site" gunsmith who has 16,000 hours of combat pistol, gunsmithing experience, and can easily correct your sights to the "Piazza Quotient". This of course will make you an experienced combat shooter worthy of star billing in any shootout you yourself may in fact gravitate to in future encounters. All very difficult, I might add without his easily obtainable expertise for the unheard of low price of the original $69.00.
I should also add at this time he will inform you of his easily purchasable ammo at $34.97 a box that has the now famous Piazza "offset bullet jackets" that will combat this gravitational yaw your cheap combat ammo will be exposed to on his state of the art range. You will feel honored to purchase it because it comes with a accompanied glass of chilled, white wine, that in no way, shape, or form will match the whining you will be doing after you finish his "expert" course. Stay home with the woman. Cheaper, better, and much more effective. Bill T.
So, you've been to Florida? ;D
FQ13
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Exactly. He's already into you for the $69.00. You are in fact into yourself for the time off of work, gas, food, and lodging to get there. Not to mention the endless miles of God barren desert to get to "Pahrump", or wherever the hell he will hold you hostage at. You show up at his doorstep, and suddenly he "explains" to you the $69.00, 4 day course is actually $1,427.62, plus "association fee", along with a small "duration and acquisition fee" that is required because the Moon is only in 3/4 phase causing a gravitational pull of your shots drastically to the left.
He then goes on to tell you it is not an issue at all simply because he has a "on-site" gunsmith who has 16,000 hours of combat pistol, gunsmithing experience, and can easily correct your sights to the "Piazza Quotient". This of course will make you an experienced combat shooter worthy of star billing in any shootout you yourself may in fact gravitate to in future encounters. All very difficult, I might add without his easily obtainable expertise for the unheard of low price of the original $69.00.
I should also add at this time he will inform you of his easily purchasable ammo at $34.97 a box that has the now famous Piazza "offset bullet jackets" that will combat this gravitational yaw your cheap combat ammo will be exposed to on his state of the art range. You will feel honored to purchase it because it comes with a accompanied glass of chilled, white wine, that in no way, shape, or form will match the whining you will be doing after you finish his "expert" course. Stay home with the woman. Cheaper, better, and much more effective. Bill T.
That is always a possibility.
At least if someone takes him up on the offer, we might see a first hand report of the deal.
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I've not heard much good about him either....unless it is in an email he sends me.
And I have heard bad things about his land development project at the range site in which many folks (a number I saw was 4000+) have invested. A lawsuit was filed and it was settled with a class action settlement.
I also saw a lawsuit he filed against an ex RO for liable which was settled out of court.
And I read of another customer who had problems with his involvement with Scientology.
Haven't heard of any one who has attended a course saying they are anything but top quality and professional...even those involved in the trouble above.
I have not heard anyone saying they were cheated or did not get what they pay for with his training offers.
But I have not known anyone personally who has taken any of the training....folks on this forum, for instance, only his published reviews of the training.
If I lived within short driving distance of the site, I'd give it a go for that price.
That was exactly what I heard one law suit was about, something about getting hosed on the "Lifetime Membership" deal.
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That was exactly what I heard one law suit was about, something about getting hosed on the "Lifetime Membership" deal.
You might have seen one I missed, but the original "Lifetime Memberships" were tied to the land investment and it was a group of 4 of them who started the suit that was settled in the class action.
Some of the Life Memberships seem to have other benefits, like birthday parties for 50 friends at the site, discount prices on things like locker rental. Was hard to tell what all came with each level of membership, which is a bad sign by itself.
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If you remind me this week end I will try to find the links. They were in one of the Second Amendment March threads.
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If you remind me this week end I will try to find the links. They were in one of the Second Amendment March threads.
Thanks, Tom. I'll see if my memory is up to it :D :D
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You have to understand how a guy like Piazza operates. We're not crooks. We think in honest terms. Guys like him operate in a much different mindset. Obviously, you can't screw everyone. You'd be "had", as they say, right off the bat. Take his "Front Sight Master Planned Community", for example. If he were an above board guy, this kind of thing could be easily made to happen, assuming he had the people and money behind him to make it happen. He did not.
1.) Get a bunch of people together who have money, like guns, and would like to live in a community where others like to engage in much the same thing. A bit like the place where John Travolta lives. "Jumbolair", or some such aviation community that has hangers and a runway so you can keep your plane, or planes, right where you live, taxi out, and take off.
(http://i812.photobucket.com/albums/zz50/billt460/JohnTravoltasHouse.jpg)
2.) Sell off the lots to affluent individuals who can afford these type of lifestyles, and who will agree to build in accordance to set rules and size constrictions.
3.) Sell and supervise construction until all avaliable lots and home sites are sold, and all promised amenities are provided for as in all of the the original signed contracts.
Piazza did none of the above. Much like a common thief who deals in deception, he did not have the money or investors secured to make any, let alone all of his "Master Planned Community" happen. The result was class action law suits, expensive judgements, (Most of which he cannot pay), and a whole bunch of pissed off people who were screwed over by this total a$$hat, who had no intentions of delivering as promised, WHAT HE HAD PROMISED. In this regard he is nothing more than a miniature Bernie Madoff. What prevented him from attaining Madoff's status was his own stupidity. He simply wasn't as good of a crook. This guy is simply a walking screw job waiting to strike at the first avaliable victim who is dumb enough to go for his "bait".
You just might make out on his $69.00 "deal". But trust me if you do, there will most certainly be someone else down the road, much like yourself, who will get financially raped by this POS. He simply doesn't have an honest bone in his body. His track record proves that. You can swim with the sharks, and get a hell of a rush if you succeed. That rush however, is provided by the people who get eaten. Bill T.
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What he should do is have this class on the Arizona border, now thats priceless training. 8)
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I signed up for his email updates once. I canceled after the second flier. He stated that training for hours and shooting hundreds of rounds was counter productive, and therefore wrong. That he could make you an expert combat shooter with one box of ammo. After reading this I figured the guy was a quack. The more I have learned about him since, I have no doubt. I feel bad for anyone who nibbles on this.
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I signed up for his email updates once. I canceled after the second flier. He stated that training for hours and shooting hundreds of rounds was counter productive, and therefore wrong. That he could make you an expert combat shooter with one box of ammo. After reading this I figured the guy was a quack. The more I have learned about him since, I have no doubt. I feel bad for anyone who nibbles on this.
One box of ammo? Well, it must be a $2000 box if that's the usual price of his training course. Still, what do you do for the rest of your three days? ::) ;D
FQ13
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I signed up for his email updates once. I canceled after the second flier. He stated that training for hours and shooting hundreds of rounds was counter productive, and therefore wrong. That he could make you an expert combat shooter with one box of ammo. After reading this I figured the guy was a quack. The more I have learned about him since, I have no doubt. I feel bad for anyone who nibbles on this.
What I read him saying was that training bad habits for hours with live fire was counter productive.
He also said that dry firing practice the right was if much more useful and cheaper than live fire the wrong way.
He also maintains that doing dry fire practice to a much greater percentage than live fire and then verifying what you have been doing with frequent live fire practice is more cost and time effective than trying to do the same amount of live fire.
I have never read him saying he could make anyone an expert shooter with one box of ammo.
I do not know if he is a crook or not. I see a lot of evidence he has likely been involved in a poorly managed, at best, real estate program. BillT's last post makes a lot of good points, but I have not verified with him that the post contains fact or is a good judgment of what happened on his part.
Until I have pretty good proof that his training is poor and a rip off, I'll wait on my judgment. And I'll not be attending any courses till then either..if at all after. If I lived down the road from the facility, I would take up the $69 offer just to see some facts. I've spent a lot more on bad experience lessons in the past :D :D
JC, if you can show me where on his site or in email, I know it's not likely you would still have it, or any other documentation where he states the 1 box expert claim, I'd like to see it.
And I don't have any investment in Piazza or his facility except that I'd love for the ideal community he presented to become a reality. Not that I'd ever be able to afford to become a resident, but it would be a good movement in this country.
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The negativity on this thread has been dis-heartening to say the least. No wonder the gun "community" is so ineffective at protecting its rights if this kind of animosity is at all typical.
And all this amidst a remarkable lack of first-hand experience. If anyone is interested in hearing a more level-headed discussion, check out http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4210385 (http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4210385) which contains comments from people who have actually tried it.
As a final comment, I'd like to simply observe that a lot of top performers and leaders in many fields are so aggressive that they verge into downright jerky and obnoxious. Yeah it can be annoying, but if they can really deliver the goods, then I say God bless 'em. It takes all types, and America's got a niche for everyone which is why we generally come out on top as a whole.
P.S. For some of the loudest "critics" I'd suggest you review this website's terms of service, expecially noting the parts about "Hate rants" --read it at http://www.downrange.tv/forum/index.php?action=register (http://www.downrange.tv/forum/index.php?action=register)
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No one here "hates" Piazza, or what he offers. Actually quite the contrary. It would be nice if he didn't come along like a divorced woman with all of the baggage attached. Many good guys in the gun business come across this way by their own doing, not ours. See the thread about Ciener. He did that to himself as well. When you get fired, it's seldom the "bosses" fault. Bill T.
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Hey Markhu, Piazza comes across like a used car salesman, and has been a frequent loser in cases where the word "Fraud" was used, that puts him on the scumbag list. Actually, no one has criticized the TRAINING, only his shifty promotional practices.
If that is to much of a "Hate rant" you should get some ear plugs, or leave, or something, cuz we ain't got going yet.
By the way, do you have first hand knowledge to contribute ? Or just hearsay from other forums ?
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I read the posts at the link in markhu's post. Pretty much said the same things many here have said they 'heard', which is, reasonably good quality training at low prices (except for ammo) that you have to wade through a turd-pond to get to.
I haven't been there, but my understanding is that it is a little training and a lot of heavy sales pitch to buy a lifetime membership in their academy.
Others, please chime in & support/refute
Yeah. :/ Frontsite is fairly close to me -- I live in Reno. So I investigated them with the idea of taking training there. The owner is apparently into a lot of heavy-handed sales and promotion stuff that looked to me more like Amway than a professional business offering professional-quality training.
I have no opinion on the quality of the training itself, to be clear about this. But I do not trust any organization that uses hard sell techniques, period. IMHO such techniques are manipulative, dishonest, and abusive.
Been there. The training is very good in spite of the owner. Play it smart and take advantage of the sales, and you can get some great training for nearly nothing. My first time there was on a friend's free buddy pass; once they get your contact info then they'll send you all their special deals; just wait till the right deal comes along and cash in. Case in point, they were offering certificates for any 2 day course for $50 a while back. Just be sure to bring your ammo with you; their prices at the pro shop are a bit high.
So...is it constructive to comment upon the unholy amounts of spam they generate?
Understood. The only interaction I've had with Front Site has been the numerous emails I receive from them. I think their aggressive marketing is actually pretty counterproductive - if you inundate your prospects with communications, they'll soon turn a deaf ear to your approach.
I took the 4 day defensive handgun course. I thought it was excellent. ONE of those 4 days there was a sales pitch given at lunch. It was optional attendance. I went, it was given to like 300 of us at one time. I could have left at any time with no pressure.
I thought the training was excellent.