The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Handguns => Topic started by: fightingquaker13 on August 29, 2010, 05:06:58 PM
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I know there is probably a head smackingly obvious anwer here, but I got to thinking about this and I couldn't see it.Here's the question. Why do SA revolvers never come with swing out cylinders? I get its for aesthetic reasons on a lot of them, but why not on hunting and target guns? It would make reloading less of a PITA.
FQ13 who is waiting for a response beginning with "Duh"
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H&R made one in .22 it was double action as well . I saw one in the local GS last winter.
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Nostalgia aside, for those using it for target and hunting—accuracy.
The space between the cylinder face and barrel is less than a swing-out cylinder. Since the cylinder is fixed on both ends, it is supposed to line up to the bore better. Some would argue reliability, but most quality revolvers already have pretty high marks there.
I suppose it would be like comparing a semi-auto to a bolt-action rifle—less moving parts help with consistency/accuracy.
For me personally, the previous answer is completely hypothetical since I haven't attained the level of marksmanship where I can blame my firearms for any lack of accuracy. If I am not shooting well, it's usually operator error. :)
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High Standardmade the Double Nine. A double action nine shot .22 that looked like a single action .22. I think they also made this as a convertable model with a .22 mag cylinder also. There may have been others made by HS similar to this but with a differant name. I have heard that the Hollywood prop guys liked these as they held nine shots and they didn't have to teach the actors to cock the hammer first as on a traditional single action.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=187620309
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Double action revolvers don't have to be shot double action. ;)
Let us not forget the schofield, which is a top-break single action.
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H&R Ultra Sportsman SA topbreak
Also the IverJohnosn Champion
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The design of the SA revolver predates the swing out cyl. designed into the SA/DA revo. Once the SA/DA revo came out I guess no one thought to try to redesign the SA with a SOC because it was outdated. Also, it was easier just to draw a second SA. I believe the SA would have faded into obscurity (sp) if it hadn't been for the B Cowboy movies of thr 40's and 50's and the fastdraw craze and Bill Ruger.
JMHOFWIW
Richard
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The design of the SA revolver predates the swing out cyl. designed into the SA/DA revo. Once the SA/DA revo came out I guess no one thought to try to redesign the SA with a SOC because it was outdated. Also, it was easier just to draw a second SA. I believe the SA would have faded into obscurity (sp) if it hadn't been for the B Cowboy movies of thr 40's and 50's and the fastdraw craze and Bill Ruger.
JMHOFWIW
Richard
I think your answer is most likely to be the correct one.
And I have opined here many times that I would love to have a SOC SA (say in .357).
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FQ.... evidently that was NOT a stupid revolver question.
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FQ.... evidently that was NOT a stupid revolver question.
I thought he was only wrong about politics ;D
Actually it's something I've wondered about as well. .
Another thing, everyone loves the Garand's lines, why doesn't some one make a shorter, lighter, simplified rifle that still maintains the same profile ?
Think of an SKS with the lines of an M -1.
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I thought he was only wrong about politics ;D
Actually it's something I've wondered about as well. .
Another thing, everyone loves the Garand's lines, why doesn't some one make a shorter, lighter, simplified rifle that still maintains the same profile ?
Think of an SKS with the lines of an M -1.
Mmmmm..... THANKS Tom, now HOW am I going to get that picture out of my head? There's no way to fix that.
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I thought he was only wrong about politics ;D
Actually it's something I've wondered about as well. .
Another thing, everyone loves the Garand's lines, why doesn't some one make a shorter, lighter, simplified rifle that still maintains the same profile ?
Think of an SKS with the lines of an M -1.
Way back then the Ruger Mini-14 project was announced, I was expecting, well, hoping at least, for it to be that shorter, lighter, simplified version of the M-14.
Still waiting for that too...unless you count the Mini-30, which I don't.
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Now HERE is a stupid revolver question.
How come my Ruger cylinders get a line on them from the little index thingy sticking out of the frame?
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SA ?
Yer 'playing' with it and spinning the cylinder.
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I was gonna mention top-break single action revolvers like the Smiths (which I love to death) and the even stranger Merwin Hulbert, which had a sort of swing out frame. BTW, I keep getting emails from the guys who are ostensibly relaunching the Merwin, which I will be buying on the DAY they become available, sucker that I am...
Let Grant Cunningham, who has forgotten more than I know abouyt revolvers, answer the ring question...if the ring is really bad, it's because the bolt is hanging up a little bit...had that problem with a Blackhawk after many many thousands of rounds.
Michael B
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Now HERE is a stupid revolver question.
How come my Ruger cylinders get a line on them from the little index thingy sticking out of the frame?
The little thing that pops up to lock the cylinder in place is variously known as a bolt (Colt), stop (S&W) or latch (Ruger.)
As the gun is cocked, either in single or double action, the bolt/stop/latch retracts into the frame to allow the cylinder to rotate. At some point it has to come back up to engage a notch in the cylinder and stop the rotation.
It can't pop up at the last instant, because if the cylinder is traveling quickly (due to over zealous SA cocking or rapid DA fire) the latch won't have time to drop into the cylinder notch. To get around this problem, the manufacturers allow the bolt/stop/latch to contact the cylinder some distance before the notch. Because of this the bolt/stop/latch now rides on the cylinder surface for some distance, producing the wear pattern you see on your gun.
The problem is generally more obvious on DA guns, because the lead-in distance is usually longer than a SA gun. In addition, when opening and closing the cylinder the bolt/stop/latch comes to rest in a different place every time, and usually outside of the lead-in area. When the cylinder is rotated, the bolt/stop/latch rubs on that surface as well.
If the ring is quite pronounced, it's generally due to a rough surface on the top of the bolt/stop/latch. This can be reduced a bit by having that surface polished smooth.
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The little thing that pops up to lock the cylinder in place is variously known as a bolt (Colt), stop (S&W) or latch (Ruger.)
As the gun is cocked, either in single or double action, the bolt/stop/latch retracts into the frame to allow the cylinder to rotate. At some point it has to come back up to engage a notch in the cylinder and stop the rotation.
It can't pop up at the last instant, because if the cylinder is traveling quickly (due to over zealous SA cocking or rapid DA fire) the latch won't have time to drop into the cylinder notch. To get around this problem, the manufacturers allow the bolt/stop/latch to contact the cylinder some distance before the notch. Because of this the bolt/stop/latch now rides on the cylinder surface for some distance, producing the wear pattern you see on your gun.
The problem is generally more obvious on DA guns, because the lead-in distance is usually longer than a SA gun. In addition, when opening and closing the cylinder the bolt/stop/latch comes to rest in a different place every time, and usually outside of the lead-in area. When the cylinder is rotated, the bolt/stop/latch rubs on that surface as well.
If the ring is quite pronounced, it's generally due to a rough surface on the top of the bolt/stop/latch. This can be reduced a bit by having that surface polished smooth.
JAYBET!
PUT THE DREMMEL DOWN AND BACK AWAY!
;D
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What are you talkin' about Haz... I don't use a Dremel. For fine work I've got a B&D grinder with a 60 grit wheel. Once you develop the touch, it works great!
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What are you talkin' about Haz... I don't use a Dremel. For fine work I've got a B&D grinder with a 60 grit wheel. Once you develop the touch, it works great!
LOL!
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There have been DA revolvers with fixed cylinders ie Colt Thunder/Lighting. As far as SA revolvers with swing out cylinders there were some Nagant revolver that were SA only (not all were DA). Believe the Japan and some other European armies also issued a SA with swing out cylinder between 1880-1920s.
CD
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I thought he was only wrong about politics ;D
Actually it's something I've wondered about as well. .
Another thing, everyone loves the Garand's lines, why doesn't some one make a shorter, lighter, simplified rifle that still maintains the same profile ?
Think of an SKS with the lines of an M -1.
How about the Mini-G?
http://www.tactical-life.com/online/exclusives/mini-g-conversion-30-06/?hp=exclusives_title (http://www.tactical-life.com/online/exclusives/mini-g-conversion-30-06/?hp=exclusives_title)
This guy will even convert your Garand to accept M14 magazines.
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I've heard of him before, it' what gave me the idea.
I'd like to see something in the $500 range ;D
What I had in mind though was more of an "All American" version of the SKS, An inexpensive, more or less all purpose carbine that is butt simple and nearly indestructible. But in a caliber of American origin that preserves the lines of the Garand.
Some version of an upside down SKS or AK action with an internal magazine ?
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I've heard of him before, it' what gave me the idea.
I'd like to see something in the $500 range ;D
What I had in mind though was more of an "All American" version of the SKS, An inexpensive, more or less all purpose carbine that is butt simple and nearly indestructible. But in a caliber of American origin that preserves the lines of the Garand.
Some version of an upside down SKS or AK action with an internal magazine ?
Sounds like a business plan to me. ;D
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Sounds like a business plan to me. ;D
But a design night mare ;D