The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: fightingquaker13 on September 20, 2010, 10:46:27 PM
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I type this with a very sad shake of the head. The British gave us Locke and Mill. They gave us Blackstone, the Common Law, Parlimentary government, and the Magna Carta. Now? A disarmed populace, a repeal of the right to silence, a surveillance state, a surrender to Sharia by refusing to force assimilation, and now this? What the hell happened to Great Britain? When did the cradle of classical liberalism surrender to statism? Don't blame socialism either. The far right would be equally at home in the Brave New Britain. Its about the individual vs. the state. In Britain, it seems the individual has lost definatively. The idea that all wages be paid to the government first, then sent electronically to workers means that the state wins. Work for who you will, you still work for the state. Its not about taxes or socialism, its about power and control. When did the Brits forget this principle to the point that they would seriously vet this idea and have a discussion about it, rather than getting out the rope? This is just sad folks.
FQ13 :'(
This is from CNBC off of Drudge 09/20/10
http://www.cnbc.com/id/39265847
UK Proposes All Paychecks Go to the State First
Published: Monday, 20 Sep 201o
The UK's tax collection agency is putting forth a proposal that all employers send employee paychecks to the government, after which the government would deduct what it deems as the appropriate tax and pay the employees by bank transfer.
Sharon Lorimer
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The proposal by Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs (HMRC) stresses the need for employers to provide real-time information to the government so that it can monitor all payments and make a better assessment of whether the correct tax is being paid.
Currently employers withhold tax and pay the government, providing information at the end of the year, a system know as Pay as You Earn (PAYE). There is no option for those employees to refuse withholding and individually file a tax return at the end of the year.
If the real-time information plan works, it further proposes that employers hand over employee salaries to the government first.
"The next step could be to use (real-time) information as the basis for centralizing the calculation and deduction of tax," HMRC said in a July discussion paper.
HMRC described the plan as "radical" as it would be a huge change from the current system that has been largely unchanged for 66 years.
Even though the centralized deductions proposal would provide much-needed oversight, there are some major concerns, George Bull, head of Tax at Baker Tilly, told CNBC.com.
"If HMRC has direct access to employees' bank accounts and makes a mistake, people are going to feel very exposed and vulnerable," Bull said.
And the chance of widespread mistakes could be high, according to Bull. HMRC does not have a good track record of handling large computer systems and has suffered high-profile errors with data, he said
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The system would be massive in terms of data management, larger than a recent attempt to centralize the National Health Service's data, which was later scrapped, Bull said.
If there's a mistake and the HMRC collects too much money, the difficulty of getting it back could be high with repayments of tax taking weeks or months, he said.
"There has to be some very clear understanding of how quickly repayments were made if there was a mistake," Bull said.
HMRC estimated the potential savings to employers from the introduction of the concept would be about £500 million ($780 million).
But the cost of implementing the new system would be "phenomenal," Bull pointed out.
"It's very clear that the system does need to be modernized… It's outdated, it's outmoded," Emma Boon, campaigner manager at the Tax Payers' Alliance, told CNBC.com.
Boon said that the Tax Payers' Alliance was in favor of simplifying tax collection, but stressed that a new complex computer system would add infrastructure and administration costs at a time when the government is trying to reduce spending.
There is a further concern, according to Bull. The centralized storage of so much data poises a security risk as the system may be open to cyber crime.
As well as security issues, there's a huge issue of transparency, according to Boon.
Boon also questioned HMCR's ability to handle to the role effectively.
The Institute of Directors (IoD), a UK organization created to promote the business agenda of directors and entreprenuers, said in a press release it had major concerns about the proposal to allow employees' pay to be paid directly to HMRC.
The IoD said the shift to a real-time, centralized system could be positive as long as the burden on employers was not increased. But it added that the idea of wages being processed by HMRC was "completely unacceptable."
“This document contains a lot of good ideas. But the idea that HMRC should be trusted with the gross pay of employees is not one of them," Richard Baron, Head of Taxation at the IoD, said in the release.
A spokesperson for Chancellor of the Exchequer George Osborne was not immediately available for comment.
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I'll tell you exactly what happened to England.
Liberal azzholes who actually believe do nothings like Locke, Mill, and Blackstone.
England's problem is people who think "Fair" is something other than a county craft show.
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I'll tell you exactly what happened to England.
Liberal azzholes who actually believe do nothings like Locke, Mill, and Blackstone.England's problem is people who think "Fair" is something other than a county craft show.
Do nothings? Let's see.... Blackstone is taught in every law school in the western world for codifying British Common Law. Locke convincingly refuted the idea of the divine right of kings, came up with the idea of God given rights existing in the state of nature the social contract, human moral equality, limited government and the idea of property rights as a natural right. He also inspired Jefferson's idea of the right and duty of revolution. The Declaration is basically straight up plagarism of The Second Treatise On Civil Government. Milll, he was a slacker by comparison. All he did was establish the principle that living in a free society meant that a man could only constrain his neighbor's actions if they posed an actual threat, rather than being merely objectionable. He also established that the right to freedom of speech and debate weren't just rights, but necessary to a just government. Pretty much everything we take for granted as a "right" can be found in his book "On Liberty". I would be honored to be remembered as having done as much for the cause of individual liberty as these three "do nothings". ;D
FQ13
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Doesn't matter whether the Liberals or Conservatives are in power when the citizen surrender their rights to the Government for whatever reasons or gains are promised, the result is the same: The Government has seized more power and the citizens have lost more freedom.
The Liberals and Conservatives both will use that gain to expand their power.
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FQ, Caesar conquered Gaul and launched the first amphibious assault in recorded history, Machiavelli, was a government official of some type, Hitler ruled Germany and menaced the entire world.
These people and others actually did things.
Blackstone simply compiled a book, and the other 2 did nothing but tell every one else how smart they were.
Of course they are taught in colleges, the "never dids" stick together.
Until you set aside the liberal propaganda you were subjected to you will never "get it".
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FQ, Caesar conquered Gaul and launched the first amphibious assault in recorded history, Machiavelli, was a government official of some type, Hitler ruled Germany and menaced the entire world.
These people and others actually did things.
Blackstone simply compiled a book, and the other 2 did nothing but tell every one else how smart they were.
Of course they are taught in colleges, the "never dids" stick together.
Until you set aside the liberal propaganda you were subjected to you will never "get it".
What did they accomplish? Caesar followed in the footsteps of Marius and turned military brilliance into political idiocy and destroyed the Roman Republic. Hitler? Well, since he apparently had never heard of Napolean or the Schlieffen Plan, did the same damn thing and got identical results. Machiavelli? Well he was a joke as a military commander. His attempts to modernize the army of Venice were on a par with Rumsfeld and McNamara. He did write a pretty good book though. Gee, what is he remembered for........ ;D
FQ13 who will close with a quote from Keynes " Practical men, who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influences, are usually the slaves of some defunct economist. Madmen in authority, who hear voices in the air, are distilling their frenzy from some academic scribbler of a few years back". 8)
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For a "History Professor" you get way to much of it wrong.
What did they accomplish? Caesar followed in the footsteps of Marius and turned military brilliance into political idiocy and destroyed the Roman Republic. Hitler? Well, since he apparently had never heard of Napolean or the Schlieffen Plan, did the same damn thing and got identical results. Machiavelli? Well he was a joke as a military commander. His attempts to modernize the army of Venice were on a par with Rumsfeld and McNamara. He did write a pretty good book though. Gee, what is he remembered for........ ;D
FQ13 who will close with a quote from Keynes " Practical men, who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influences, are usually the slaves of some defunct economist. Madmen in authority, who hear voices in the air, are distilling their frenzy from some academic scribbler of a few years back". 8)
First off, The Republic was fu#ked before Julius showed up or they would not have been so violently factionalized.
Second, JC's crossing of the Rubicon under arms was a self defense action in reply to spurious charges leveled against him by the thoroughly corrupted Senate.
Lastly, while the Republic may have disappeared, the Empire lasted in one form or another till the dissolution of the "Holy Roman Empire" in the late 1800's.
Not a bad legacy if you ask me.
I won't waste my time correcting the rest of your post, Knowledge is wasted on some one who actually pays attention to an idiot like John Maynard Keynes, who's contribution to society was "Deficit spending".
I've said it before, You seem like a smart guy, why do you always reference a bunch of socialist dumb azzes,
Unless.........
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Do nothings? Let's see.... Blackstone is taught in every law school in the western world for codifying British Common Law. Locke convincingly refuted the idea of the divine right of kings, came up with the idea of God given rights existing in the state of nature the social contract, human moral equality, limited government and the idea of property rights as a natural right. He also inspired Jefferson's idea of the right and duty of revolution. The Declaration is basically straight up plagarism of The Second Treatise On Civil Government. Milll, he was a slacker by comparison. All he did was establish the principle that living in a free society meant that a man could only constrain his neighbor's actions if they posed an actual threat, rather than being merely objectionable. He also established that the right to freedom of speech and debate weren't just rights, but necessary to a just government. Pretty much everything we take for granted as a "right" can be found in his book "On Liberty". I would be honored to be remembered as having done as much for the cause of individual liberty as these three "do nothings". ;D
FQ13
+10^30
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For a "History Professor" you get way to much of it wrong.
First off, The Republic was fu#ked before Julius showed up or they would not have been so violently factionalized.
Second, JC's crossing of the Rubicon under arms was a self defense action in reply to spurious charges leveled against him by the thoroughly corrupted Senate.
Lastly, while the Republic may have disappeared, the Empire lasted in one form or another till the dissolution of the "Holy Roman Empire" in the late 1800's.
Not a bad legacy if you ask me.
I won't waste my time correcting the rest of your post, Knowledge is wasted on some one who actually pays attention to an idiot like John Maynard Keynes, who's contribution to society was "Deficit spending".
I've said it before, You seem like a smart guy, why do you always reference a bunch of socialist dumb azzes,
Unless.........
Bail out, Tom! You're starting to look like this poor Spitfire:
And no, Quaker isn't a NAZI either..... ;D
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Britain still makes LMT rifles, and a couple good beers,.... :-\
A good portion of what Britain is now, is our future if we don't DO something about it, starting in Nov.
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Cool video Full Auto, I don't get the connection though.
Half the reason I stick up for FQ is because he is easy to shoot down, if he left he might be replaced by some one who made me actually do research instead of having the info on call.
Britain still makes LMT rifles, and a couple good beers,.... :-\
A good portion of what Britain is now, is our future if we don't DO something about it, starting in Nov.
I'll make a prediction, Rep. will take over control in Nov 2010 and prevent Obummer from doing anything else to PO the voters.
Since the average voter is a dumbass who does more research picking condoms than on who will run the country, and has a memory span of about 3 news cycles, they will say, " Well, he got off to a rough start but he hasn't pissed me off lately" and BO will get reelected.
No, I don't have much respect for my fellow citizens, they don't deserve it.
Most of these Tea Party people are a bunch of Johnny come Lately's" jumping on the bandwagon.
Some of us have been shouting this stuff from the rooftops since the 60's or longer.
The first letter I ever sent to a politician, (I was about 6 ) was to Johnson about Social Security, I wrote that taking other peoples money made him a bad man.
(not addressed specifically at TW, and meant as a poll, not an accusation ) Has any one else here been politically active for 45 years ?
Butt out MB ;D
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Well, I voted for Barry Goldwater in our High School Mock Presidential Election in 1964...does that count? Against Johnson, if that earns any points :D :D :D
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Well, I voted for Barry Goldwater in our High School Mock Presidential Election in 1964...does that count? Against Johnson, if that earns any points :D :D :D
Yes it counts and it's good for several points ;D