The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: fightingquaker13 on September 21, 2010, 02:20:42 PM
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It is late summer here in sunny South Florida and that means its the season for toxic buffo toads. My dog thinks they are chew toys. I had an el cheapo Crossman faux 1911, but it died today. I can't use my scope mounted RWS without looking like Lee Harvey Oswald and having my Yankee neighbors calling homeland security. >:( So, I need to buy a new pellet pistol.
Here's what I need.
1. Pinpoint accuracy at ten to twenty feet: The kill zone on a toad is small. You drop one between the eyes from the top and it goes down like a deflated balloon. Anywhere else, and it will hop away to die and become a chew toy and a trip to the vet. Average range is about 15 feet as they are wary and can move pretty fast into the densest bush out there when they need to.
2: Cheap, but not too cheap: This will be the third one I buy. I'd rather get something solid this time and buy it once, rather than buying 3 more. Still, I'm not spending over a hundred bucks to shoot frogs. So in the $50-$100 range, what's good?
Any thoughts?
Thanks
FQ13
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You didn't say whether you wanted CO2, PCP, pump or spring.
Of course in CO2 the Crosman 2240 is pretty much the standard. I souped mine up with a steel receiver with left handed bolt. Rail on top for optics, 8" free floating barrel and a muzzle weight. Looks more like the 2300T.
Crosman has the Classic Pump or the Benjamin Pumps in either .177 or .22.
And they also have a PCP Silhouette PCP Pistol or the Maurader. And there's always the IZH-46.
I'm just not into all that's required for PCP.
In spring loaded the standard in Production air pistol silhouette was for a long time the Daisy Avanti 747.
I'm partial to spring loaded though because they're ready to go when you are. No CO2 carts, no pumping, no pumps.
Here's a couple of links:
http://www.pyramydair.com/cgi-bin/show.pl?cmd_pistols=show_guns_manufacturer&Manufacturer=Avanti (http://www.pyramydair.com/cgi-bin/show.pl?cmd_pistols=show_guns_manufacturer&Manufacturer=Avanti)
http://www.pyramydair.com/p/browning-800-mag-air-pistol.shtml (http://www.pyramydair.com/p/browning-800-mag-air-pistol.shtml)
http://www.pyramydair.com/air-pistols (http://www.pyramydair.com/air-pistols)
http://straightshooters.com/navagationpages/pistolselections.html (http://straightshooters.com/navagationpages/pistolselections.html)
And of course if you want to go all out there are "large" bore air guns capable of "real" game. I had an opportunity to convert my Mark I to a 9mm. Only one shot per CO2 cart but it was about equivalent to a .38spl or better.
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RWS 5G Magnum:
You can find much better places to buy it, but these guys at least show what it is.
http://www.cabelas.com/p-0043407228476a.shtml (http://www.cabelas.com/p-0043407228476a.shtml)
Thing is AWSOME! Built to last the rest of your life. More power than many rifles. Accurate enough that you'll want to put a small scope on it.
Certainly not the cheapest, but is anything well made known to be?
(http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww40/BigCheeseStick/P1010862.jpg?t=1285104925)
(http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww40/BigCheeseStick/P1010860.jpg?t=1285104974)
(http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww40/BigCheeseStick/P1010858.jpg?t=1285105183)
I had found a place on-line, actually located in OH that sells them for close to a hundred. Can't remember what it's called... Try to let you know.
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On the other side of the spectrum: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=190833222 (http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=190833222)
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If the guys with the tractor trailer load of Chinese tools and stuff show up in your area check out their Pellet pistols.
I've bought 2 of their rifles and the 177 pellets are dead accurate at 50 yards.
Paid $20 each, (pistols are the same price) Had to replace the first one because a local "Know it all" offered me $60 for it.
Of course I took it , I even waited a couple days before I started laughing at him publicly.
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http://www.compasseco.com/ (http://www.compasseco.com/)
Place I bought a few guns from in the past (thought it was in OH, but I used to travel A LOT).
Great prices, good people. I don't see the 5G listed, but you could call them and ask. One word of warning on the Chinese guns, I'd bought a high power Tech Force brand pistol and it fell a little short on accuracy. Don't remember the model #. I ended up throwing it away after getting the 5G.
When I visited the guys at Compasseco they'd given me good advice and recommendations, it was just hard to pass up the cheap price until I learned the hard way.
For killing frogs... I say pull out a tray of ice cubes for ammo, and a "black widow" sling shot! FUN!!!
http://www.amazon.com/Barnett-Crossbows-Black-Widow-Slingshot/dp/B000PWBIKY (http://www.amazon.com/Barnett-Crossbows-Black-Widow-Slingshot/dp/B000PWBIKY)
If I may ask. Why kill something that eats bugs!?! :o
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http://www.compasseco.com/ (http://www.compasseco.com/)
If I may ask. Why kill something that eats bugs!?! :o
You kill them because they're a non-native invasive species; eradication is the best (although not likely doable at this point) solution. They are not beneficial and even harmful to the native species. Florida is full of plants and animals that fall into that category.
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I've had one of these for years.
http://www.crosman.com/airguns/pistols/1377C
its killed dozens of rats, as well as cans.
not the fastest shooter, but they are accurate, and at ~ $50 on sale a deal.
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You kill them because they're a non-native invasive species; eradication is the best (although not likely doable at this point) solution. They are not beneficial and even harmful to the native species. Florida is full of plants and animals that fall into that category.
Gotcha!
Wonder if rat traps would work? :-\ More efficient, but a lot less fun.
Even if the neighbors call SWAT, I don't think there's anything illegal about ice cubes and a sling shot.
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Go to BassPro, get the Crosman, for less than $50. sit in your chair, light a candle, play some Van Morrison, and snipe the TOADS!!!!
::)
Waiting for the iguanas to drop out of the trees this winter, seems less are around since last winter...
;)
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It's a .50 cal.... Nuff said. :D
http://www.jungleblowgun.com/amazon-commando-urban-camo-48-2pc-50-cal-blowgun-deluxe-dart-setup-p-471.html (http://www.jungleblowgun.com/amazon-commando-urban-camo-48-2pc-50-cal-blowgun-deluxe-dart-setup-p-471.html)
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Walmarts finest, the Crossman American classic. Every backyard should have one.
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Cheap - http://www.pyramydair.com/p/IZH-53M-air-pistol.shtml (http://www.pyramydair.com/p/IZH-53M-air-pistol.shtml)
Not so cheap - http://www.pyramydair.com/p/izh-46M-match-air-pistol.shtml (http://www.pyramydair.com/p/izh-46M-match-air-pistol.shtml)
The later is the best air pistol your money can by, period!
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Be sure to watch the video ;D
http://www.pyramydair.com/s/m/Umarex_Steel_Storm_CO2_Gun/2043
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Be sure to watch the video ;D
http://www.pyramydair.com/s/m/Umarex_Steel_Storm_CO2_Gun/2043
You are an evil, evil man CJ. >:( ;D
FQ13
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Actually, you are not so evil. Airgun Depot has a refurbished model for $55. They are currently out of stock. I'd thought to get a precision target pistol, preferrably in .22. Browning makes a nice break barrel that will do 600 fps. Now however, the voice of satan is getting louder. Full auto at 430 fps with BBs will do for frogs. Too light for iguanas probably, but still.........The temptataion to be able to say "Let me introduce you to my leetle friend" is very very strong. Besides, a dozen or so BBs should do it. ;)
FQ13 who might have to buy a pastel T-shirt and a white linen jacket to go with it. ;D
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If you really want to kill them get a PC model. ;D
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Here's my two .22 cal pellet pistols.
The top one is a converted Crosman2240. I've taken the red dot sight off to use for something else for the time being.
Notice it has a left hand bolt and an all steel receiver. The barrel has been replaced and is free floating with a muzzle weight. This was more of a fun conversion than a serious need, since I picked up the 2240 for $25 new.
The bottom gun started life as a Crosman MK II in .177. I had it converted to .22 and the gas port enlarged for more velocity. I initially bought it to practice IHMSA at home. While it still is a good iron-sighted practice gun, it's new found power lends itself to pest control quite nicely.
(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_udyXWMnOGhI/TJts7XEiSXI/AAAAAAAAeZo/3PyqSoEETb8/image33116.jpg)
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Not to ruin the fun, but what's the backdrop for these frogs? BB's bounce / Ricochet!
"OUCH! OWWW! CRAP! THAT WAS MY NEW GLASS DOOR!!!"
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I actually have both the Drozd, ( bumble bee ) russian BB pistol, and it is a hoot, anyone how shoots it just loves it, and it is pretty accurate for a BB gun and has never hiccuped, it just runs, and I have and 46 match pistol, got a good deal through a group buy, and it is very accurate, comes with repair parts and was under 200 dollars, but it is not a 500 fps air pistol, it is 300 and very gentle to shoot, now if it was .22 caliber, I think frogs would be no problem, .17 iffy. How about Aquila, colibri, or super colibri in your .22 pistol, these are quieter than a lot of high powered air guns, and it is a 20 grain bullet at 300 fps, I kill squirrels, ( not to brag but up to 72 now ) with my 16" contender carbine, just a shot behind the ear at 30-40' and out they drop. Cost you maybe 3 bucks to try 50 shots and listen to them in your gun, and see how accurate they are. Good luck. I need to do a video on the Drozd, it is bad to the bone, and so much fun. I actually killed a running squirrel with it, a BB gun, who'd a thunk it?
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I too, am interested in this. Probably more in the rifle range. NOT co2, and with fastest reload possible. under $200.
I looked at the Tech Force .177 Contender (easier to find pellets) at 189.00. http://www.compasseco.com/tech-force-tech-force-caliber-rifles-c-233_34_182.html
Want to kill small varmints (possum and coon).
Thoughts?
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I too, am interested in this. Probably more in the rifle range. NOT co2, and with fastest reload possible. under $200.
I looked at the Tech Force .177 Contender (easier to find pellets) at 189.00. http://www.compasseco.com/tech-force-tech-force-caliber-rifles-c-233_34_182.html
Want to kill small varmints (possum and coon).
Thoughts?
Go to airgun depot. com. You can get the various Gammo field rifles for under 2 bills. You can also get an RWS 34 in .22 at about $230. All wood and metal and Haz junior will be shooting it when you're gone. I'd go that route. I've had mine for 15 years and its still an 800 fps tack driver. T
FQ13
PS for varmints buy only .22. Remember bigger pellet=bigger hole. As far as .22 being harder to find? Order 1,000 with the gun and it'll set you back $50 at most.
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Thanks, FQ.
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Thanks, FQ.
Check out their remanufactured section. You can get the RWS 34 combo with a 4x32 scope in .22 for $189. That is a steal. They also have the Gammo "silent Cat" (now there is an oxymoron ;)) in .22 new for $179 with a scope. It will do 1000 fps, but I'd trust the RWS more for the extra ten bucks. The gammo is supposed to be quieter though, if that is an issue.
Have fun, and seriously, buy .22, your terminal energy is a lot greater.
FQ13
Various flavors of RWS 34s (check out the original wood and blue new, and the remanufactured with the scope, note one of the two remanufactured is out of stock, the other isn't)
type in airgundepot.com
then go to Search and type in RWS 34. You'll get about ten models, accessory packages and finishes.
The Gammo Silent Cat
http://www.airgundepot.com/gamo-silent-cat-22.html
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RWS 5G Magnum:
You can find much better places to buy it, but these guys at least show what it is.
http://www.cabelas.com/p-0043407228476a.shtml (http://www.cabelas.com/p-0043407228476a.shtml)
Thing is AWSOME! Built to last the rest of your life. More power than many rifles. Accurate enough that you'll want to put a small scope on it.
Certainly not the cheapest, but is anything well made known to be?
(http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww40/BigCheeseStick/P1010862.jpg?t=1285104925)
(http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww40/BigCheeseStick/P1010860.jpg?t=1285104974)
(http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww40/BigCheeseStick/P1010858.jpg?t=1285105183)
I had found a place on-line, actually located in OH that sells them for close to a hundred. Can't remember what it's called... Try to let you know.
Plus a million!
I have one for practice. It is inexpensive, easy to maintain and accurate!
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NOT co2, and with fastest reload possible. under $200.
.177 .... (easier to find pellets)
Want to kill small varmints (possum and coon).
Thoughts?
First, .22 pellets aren't hard to find. Secondly most air guns are rather sensitive to the pellet type, so I'd go to Straight Shooters and get their pellet sampler. Then when you figure which pellet style/weight works best in your gun, just order a couple thousand.
( http://straightshooters.com/straightshooters/sssampler.html (http://straightshooters.com/straightshooters/sssampler.html) )
I like Straight Shooters' web site. It has lot's of good information. They don't carry the less expensive guns though. But then I went for the uncommon in air rifles. Weihrauch HW77 in .22. I had to order it from a Canadian company, because all the US dealers claim it's under powered for .22.. I figured if the Germans make a .22 version of that gun then it must work. And I was right, I can shoot a squirrel at 15 yds, pass all the way through the body and still have enough energy to smack the fence 10yds further back, so hard that it makes more noise than the gun did in the first place. Weihrauch is the company that made the original Beeman R1. (Beeman designed it, Weeihrauch manufactured it.) Beeman pushes the .20 caliber pellets which is why, I think, they look down on .22.
I wanted accuracy and power. Think, paint balls as targets at 20m is boring, accuracy. And I went with an under lever (fixed barrel) as opposed to a break-barrel. Greater accuracy. I've taken small possums and large rabbits with drop dead in their tracks results.
CO2 and PCPs have rather quick follow up shots, some even have magazines so you don't have to fumble with pellets. Pumps are out because it takes too long to pump them up. But for overall, ready to shoot when you are, no cartridges, no filling tanks, no pumping, a spring'er is the way to go. One cocking motion, drop in the pellet and fire. Fewer seals to go bad as well.
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http://www.newsrealblog.com/2010/04/28/the-%E2%80%9Ccooked-frog%E2%80%9D-journalism-of-david-brooks/ (http://www.newsrealblog.com/2010/04/28/the-%E2%80%9Ccooked-frog%E2%80%9D-journalism-of-david-brooks/)
Guess who's coming to dinner! :o
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First, .22 pellets aren't hard to find. Secondly most air guns are rather sensitive to the pellet type, so I'd go to Straight Shooters and get their pellet sampler. Then when you figure which pellet style/weight works best in your gun, just order a couple thousand.
( http://straightshooters.com/straightshooters/sssampler.html (http://straightshooters.com/straightshooters/sssampler.html) )
I like Straight Shooters' web site. It has lot's of good information. They don't carry the less expensive guns though. But then I went for the uncommon in air rifles. Weihrauch HW77 in .22. I had to order it from a Canadian company, because all the US dealers claim it's under powered for .22.. I figured if the Germans make a .22 version of that gun then it must work. And I was right, I can shoot a squirrel at 15 yds, pass all the way through the body and still have enough energy to smack the fence 10yds further back, so hard that it makes more noise than the gun did in the first place. Weihrauch is the company that made the original Beeman R1. (Beeman designed it, Weeihrauch manufactured it.) Beeman pushes the .20 caliber pellets which is why, I think, they look down on .22.
I wanted accuracy and power. Think, paint balls as targets at 20m is boring, accuracy. And I went with an under lever (fixed barrel) as opposed to a break-barrel. Greater accuracy. I've taken small possums and large rabbits with drop dead in their tracks results.
CO2 and PCPs have rather quick follow up shots, some even have magazines so you don't have to fumble with pellets. Pumps are out because it takes too long to pump them up. But for overall, ready to shoot when you are, no cartridges, no filling tanks, no pumping, a spring'er is the way to go. One cocking motion, drop in the pellet and fire. Fewer seals to go bad as well.
A quick followup here. The reason the German and British guns are under powered is purely legal. Anything over 6 footpounds of energy is considered a fire arm. They compensate for this by being anal about accuracy. It makes for great, but pricy guns. If they had sane gun laws? Well, that same accuracy would manifest itself in 1000+ fps monsters. You are right about pellets though, you do need to figure out what the gun likes. Pyramid air and airgun depot generally recomend pellets for each gun and both have lots of reviews posted. The thing is, even premium .22s are generally only about $8-$12 per 250 pack, so you can put away a thousand for under $50. Thats 40 rounds of centerfire rifle ammo. Given the fact that a wood and metal gun like Alfs, or my RWS 35 weighs around 7 pounds, plust the scope, you are getting about the same feel as your deer rifle and its basically free to practice with.
FQ13
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Should answer a lot of questions.
http://www.beemans.net/field%20use.htm (http://www.beemans.net/field%20use.htm)
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Should answer a lot of questions.
http://www.beemans.net/field%20use.htm (http://www.beemans.net/field%20use.htm)
Very informative post Badger. The ballistics tables alone were worth the read. The kill zone and max potential accuracy/energy charts were an eye opener.
Thanks
FQ13
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If you enjoyed that one. This guy could about qualify you as a SWAT Team Sniper with a pellet gun.
http://www.velocitypress.com/air_rifle_ballistics.shtml (http://www.velocitypress.com/air_rifle_ballistics.shtml)
He's got me interested enough to pull out the chrono and my RWS 5G (marketed at 700fps) later this evening just to get "actual" muzzle speeds between it and my little CO2 pistol that was marketed at 400fps. I'll try to dig out some good hunting pellets to test with.
EDIT: The test won't work in the garage. Not enough light, and the pellets are to small I'm guessing. Chrono keeps giving "Error" messages after each shot. :(
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A quick followup here. The reason the German and British guns are under powered is purely legal. Anything over 6 footpounds of energy is considered a fire arm.
FQ13
Air gun companies in both countries, make full powered ones for export. My particular HW77 is illegal in the UK, and trust me, is anything but underpowered.
You do have to be careful, though, that when you order one, you are getting the export model, not the UK model.
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I just posted this on another related thread, I have one of these http://www.airforceairguns.com/talonss.html
but with the 24" barrel, with a bushnell 6 x 24 on top. It will shoot 3/4" 5 shot groups at 50 meters, and I can hit 8" plates at 100 meters, but you have to hold 2' high, and it barely dings. Mine is .22 and I use custom 30grn hollow points or Beeman Kodiak, extra heavy which I believe are 22 grn. In the past I had a Feinwerkbau Model 65 Olympic pistol, it was the recoiless model, and I suspect this rifle is the same, it was a really great pistol, and I moved up to a C20, co2 model, because of the increase in velocity, 500fps, vs 300fps from the spring gun, in competition, especially air gun, even 500fps is slow, and follow through is totally the ticket, the projectile takes an appreciable amount of time to exit the muzzle, vs powder cartridges. Air guns are good for you, they will teach you how to shoot right. I love watching Olympic air rifle, the margin for error is ridiculous, the 10 ring is .18", the diameter of the projectile, .177, if the pellet hits the .18'' without touching the ring around it, it is a 10, if it touches the the circle at any point it is a 9. The best shoot right in the middle as a habit. I respect that, man or woman. We have the advantage at my club to run a junior international team, with true Olympic training center coaches, and our jr, teams are damn good.
Maybe a little off thread, but I hope I contributed.
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Yep, those PCPs are very accurate. I only wish I had the motivation to get involved with PCP, but then there's the pump or the frequent trips to the scuba store.
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Anybody ever fired a pellet gun shooting over 1,200fps??? Curious what the audible differance is like when a pellet breaks the sound barrier!
Why you don't typically see guns rated to shoot this fast? :-\
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Alf, I do have the Swedish bicycle pump, to charge my cylinder and it not easy, once you go over 2500 psi, you need weight,,, it looks just like a bicycle pump with a guage, and it will up to 3500 psi, but above 2500,,,, it takes weight,,, and I mean body weight, even slow,,,it will take some time and effort.......
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Anybody ever fired a pellet gun shooting over 1,200fps??? Curious what the audible differance is like when a pellet breaks the sound barrier!
Why you don't typically see guns rated to shoot this fast? :-\
Here's Gammo's Extreme Hunter. It will do 1600 FPS, which is the fastest I've seen in a break barrel. Note it takes 58 pounds to break it. The German exports might do better, but for a reasonably afordable, non-tank filled weapon, this s probably what you want if speed is the goal. Me, I'll stick with 800-1000 in .22. If I want more, I'll look at something like a Sam Yang big bore in .45. ;D
FQ13
http://www.airgundepot.com/gamo-hunter-extreme.html?green=14704089079