The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: twyacht on September 21, 2010, 06:34:46 PM
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As an electrician, I found this study very interesting. Time to stock up on incandescent, or get the LED's. CFL's are dirty electricity.
Sure am glad the gov't is looking out for us. >:(
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Wish you had posted a link, I was thinking about my own Light bulbs (CF's ) and my health so I went looking for the other links she mentioned.
Found this under "Science and Technology"
http://archives.cbc.ca/science_technology/unexplained/clips/4404/
Still curious, less concerned. ;D
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The only place I would put CFL is outside. There are none in my house. kind of pissed off the wife when I went thru and removed them all after I moved in. CFLs are about as green as a 1 ton truck being used as a commuter car.
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Yeah, I get it about the Mercury, but my Electric bill has never been over $25/ month
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Appreciate the post twyacht! :)
I have those damn things throughout my whole house!
I already looked at Lowe's on-line, the LED bulbs are $8 bucks a pop for a 2w / 60w equivelent (kinda pricey!). I live with a type 1 diabetic, and find this especially interesting.
I checked out the link mentioned like Tom. Their site looks pretty legit. The alien story is I think, meant to be a goofy and for fun. The other stuff I saw was regular to any news channel. :-\
Even cheap regular flourecent bulbs mess people up! Anyone who's ever sat in an office or school with the ones that give people headaches and such knows what I'm talking about!
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From 2008! >:(
http://www.electricalpollution.com/documents/08_Havas&Hutchinson_EP_CFL.pdf (http://www.electricalpollution.com/documents/08_Havas&Hutchinson_EP_CFL.pdf)
What is with having to get information on this from overseas?!? :(
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Appreciate the post twyacht! :)
I have those damn things throughout my whole house!
I already looked at Lowe's on-line, the LED bulbs are $8 bucks a pop for a 2w / 60w equivelent (kinda pricey!). I live with a type 1 diabetic, and find this especially interesting.
I checked out the link mentioned like Tom. Their site looks pretty legit. The alien story is I think, meant to be a goofy and for fun. The other stuff I saw was regular to any news channel. :-\
Even cheap regular flourecent bulbs mess people up! Anyone who's ever sat in an office or school with the ones that give people headaches and such knows what I'm talking about!
And yes I know what you are talking about with that darn buzzing.
Oh, it's a Legit site, it's Canadian Broadcasting, The UFO story is probably legit, but when I saw that and the story about "Vulcans" in Alberta Canada, ( very seriously ) I could not resist
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Yeah, I get it about the Mercury, but my Electric bill has never been over $25/ month
whats your price per kwh?
here is our local pricing.
http://www.smud.org/en/residential/rates/Pages/rates.aspx
I've never not been a tier 2. between power tools and aquariums, I use alot of power.
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It's also a Wisconsin study, but we, at our shop, have bench tested CFL bulbs, standard bulbs, and LED's and halogens at our shop via an oscilloscope, the sine wave is the choppiest with any gas or CFL bulb. Halogen was the rage in the marine industry, but the offset was current draw and heat.
Now the LED's are the rage, but right now, they are too pricey. Prices should adjust over time, and I hope they do.
You also have Harmonic Disturbance in a sine wave, we measure it on yachts with automated systems, most houses and bldgs. average 1.7 to 7%, the magic number is less than 5%. If these "green" bulbs crash my nice sine wave into mountain peaks and valley's, let alone EMF, I'm gettin' LED's. all the light, half the current, none of the heat.
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http://www.electricalpollution.com/documents/WWcolour.pdf (http://www.electricalpollution.com/documents/WWcolour.pdf)
And they make you stupid too!
Huh? What where we talking about? ??? Wait while I turn this light off...
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whats your price per kwh?
here is our local pricing.
http://www.smud.org/en/residential/rates/Pages/rates.aspx
I've never not been a tier 2. between power tools and aquariums, I use alot of power.
Darn, I had to dig out the bill,First time it's been over $25
$25.12
Delivery Services $17.92
Supplier Services $7.90
Here we go, way on the back.
Hidden amungst a bunch of other stuff,
I found
SUPPLIER SERVICES DETAIL 90.00KWHX $0.087800
So, to answer your question $.09 / KWH
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Mine is 7 cents for the first 600 KWH and then it goes up to 13 cents. Running the A/C is expensive but worth it. And CFL suck.
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Even cheap regular flourecent bulbs mess people up! Anyone who's ever sat in an office or school with the ones that give people headaches and such knows what I'm talking about!
This is the part I'm not getting. Fluorescent light is fluorescent light. It is all produced the same way by the same electrical process. The only difference is the CFL, as it's name implies is "compact", containing the small, disposable transformer within the bulb itself. I would have liked to have seen a meter reading from his little "dirty meter" when placed next to a standard 2 or 4 bulb, 4' Fluorescent fixture. You know, the kind that have been installed in offices, schools, and hospitals worldwide since the dawn of time. I can't believe none of these people conducting these tests didn't think of comparing them to standard fluorescent fixtures? Or perhaps they did and got the same or worse readings, which of course would diminsh the panic factor of the "dirty meter" they were using.
I don't doubt fluorescent light may alter an electromagnetic field in some way, shape, or form. What I'm not buying into just yet is that this can be directly related to poor health. That's the problem with any and all of this "green" $h!t. People are much too quick to jump both on and off the bandwagon. I'll shelf this one for the time being in the same section as the melting polar ice caps that are going to force the good citizens of Hilton Head to invest in a submarine fleet. Bill T.
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I would agree with Bill except that they have been arguing the health effects of living near Power lines since I was a kid.
While I agree that, like global warming, there is a certain "Hype" factor, I suspect that this has a much firmer basis in fact.
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Fourescent light makes all women look like Nancy Pelosi. It is evil.
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Fourescent light makes all women look like Nancy Pelosi. It is evil.
BURN THE EVIL BULBS !
;D
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I would agree with Bill except that they have been arguing the health effects of living near Power lines since I was a kid.
While I agree that, like global warming, there is a certain "Hype" factor, I suspect that this has a much firmer basis in fact.
I've heard the high tension power line argument as well. It pops up from time to time, then disappears for a while much like the whole, "cell phones cause brain cancer" argument that got some traction a few years back, then it slipped back into oblivion as well. I've developed an attitude that if it's bad for you it will be PROVEN bad, and it will always STAY bad. A bit like smoking cigarettes, chromium in the water in Hinkley, California, or living under the "Love Canal". But I'm leery of these on again, off again "hazards". As I said people have been living under power lines and with fluorescent lighting ever since I was born, and long before that. While they may perhaps cause eye strain or even headaches in a small group of people, I doubt they'll kill you. And if they will they are going to have to come up with something a little better than a "Dirty Power" meter to prove it. Bill T.
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If it's bad for you it probably tastes good! Like bacon flavored. :D
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They can't possibly be bad for you.
They don't taste good,
They are not fattening ,
and they are not immoral.
They must be good for you. :(
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While serving on our community's utility commission, and three years as chairman, I fought cfl's in our city. As part of a conservation plan we would hand them out free to residents. I tried and I tried to convince our city administrator and full time employees that this was a bad thing, but they were sucked in by the greenies and the government programs that they would rather sign off on than fight. At the end of my tenure the state has forced us to combine our conservation program with that of our major suppliers and other communities. So, now we are not only making stupid decisions, but the overhead cost of the program eats up what we used to spend on the entire program.
Do the research on cfl's, and you will find that the amount of energy they take to produce and recycle eats up all the savings in energy. Also, you need to get the full life claims to even break even on the increased price. I have never had one in our home last that long, and the warranty process it more costly than just buying new.
Explain to me how if mercury in the air is bad, and if dropping an oral or rectal thermometer in a clinic causes total evacuation of the room or building to clean up the mercury, how is it ok to put 25 mercury containing vessels in every home in the nation? How is it a good thing to possibly break one of these things in a home where the mercury will go into the carpet where babies play?
This week GE closed the final incondesent plant in the United States!
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I can't find a CFL bulb that will work well in an cold ouside enviroment. My porch light is a pain in the butt to change and I have tried to find a CFL 100 watt equivilent to use because of the claimed longer life to no availe.
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I bought some 100 watt equivalent CFLs at Lowe's, but they don't look as bright to me as 100 watt incandescents. I don't like how they're dimmer when you first turn the light on then it takes a minute or two to warm up.
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Even before this, I've been looking at LED bulbs. They are way more expensive, but last even longer than CFL's.
I figure if I buy one per month it won't hurt as bad over time and eventually I can replace the majority of our most-used bulbs.
http://www.besthomeledlighting.com/
How to Determine If LEDs Are Right For You?
How much will you spend on the bulbs?
Consider the cost savings and other benefits -
1. Cost - LEDs cost more initially, and there is no doubt that they save you a lot of money in the long run because they last longer and use less energy. Money savings is from using 80% less energy and not having to buy about 25 traditional flood light bulbs. Depending on your state, savings and time for the bulb to pay for itself can vary.
Over 50,000 hours for a typical 7W LED Flood Light replacement bulb (MSRP $79.99) that replaces a 50W Incandescent Flood at 8 hours usage per day:
* If you live in Idaho where electricity is the cheapest in the country at 6.3 cents/kWh
You save: $180.46 and the bulb pays for itself in 7.6 years.
* In California where the cost of electricity is 14.35 cents/kWh:
You save: $353.54 and the bulb pays for itself in 3.9 years
* In Hawaii where the cost of electricity is a whopping 28.27 cents/kWh:
You save: $652.82 and the bulb pays for itself in 2.1 years!
Keep in mind, at 8 hours a day, these bulbs will last about 17 years before they need replacement. You can see the savings really vary so go here to see how your state compares:
http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/electricity/epm/table5_6_b.html
If the savings is not as quick as you'd like, there are a few other factors to consider as well that can strengthen the case for switching to LEDs:
2. Convenience - If you have bulbs in hard to reach places, by replacing them with LED, you dont have to worry about replacing them for a long time. No more driving to the store, buying them, coming back, taking out the ladder, and disposing of old bulbs. In places where you have a lot of bulbs, the time saved can really add up.
3. Heat If you have a lot of flood lights in a small area, it can really heat up a room significantly. LEDs give off very little heat in comparison. By talking to energy engineers (in California), a good rule of thumb for every kwH of electricity reduced by using LEDs instead of incandescent, you can keep your thermostat higher and reduce your A/C costs by about 20%. I.e. if you save 1000 kWh of electricity per year, you can factor in about an extra 200 kWhs in reduced air conditioning costs as well. Besides the additional money savings, by switching to LED's, your room will be much cooler.
http://www.eternaleds.com/The_Definitive_LED_Light_Bulb_Buying_Guide_a/220.htm
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Also, this may be of interest to some, an energy price guide per state:
http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/electricity/epm/table5_6_b.html
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Another bad thing about CFLs is that you can't use them with a dimmer switch unless you can find bulbs specifically made to be used with a dimmer. I haven't seen any but they do exist somewhere. If you use regular CFLs with a dimmer it voids the warranty on the bulb and burns them out faster.
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Also, this may be of interest to some, an energy price guide per state:
http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/electricity/epm/table5_6_b.html
Illinois' rates are misleading. At least around Chicago, but for the whole state IIRC the rates were split - winter and summer. Most people do not have electric heat, so the electric utilities stuffed the commerce commission and passed rules that allow them to charge almost userous rates in the summer time when people reply on electric for a/c, and then drop the rates for the winter to a more "normal" level.
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Do the research on cfl's, and you will find that the amount of energy they take to produce and recycle eats up all the savings in energy. Also, you need to get the full life claims to even break even on the increased price. I have never had one in our home last that long, and the warranty process it more costly than just buying new.
Explain to me how if mercury in the air is bad, and if dropping an oral or rectal thermometer in a clinic causes total evacuation of the room or building to clean up the mercury, how is it ok to put 25 mercury containing vessels in every home in the nation? How is it a good thing to possibly break one of these things in a home where the mercury will go into the carpet where babies play?
You have to understand the entire purpose of CFL's, no matter if you like them or not, is to lower a persons electric bill by burning fewer watts to produce the same amount of lumen's of light. This they do very well. It has been proven in independent tests, and I've proven it to myself with a much reduced electric bill by replacing all of my incandescents with CFL's, even my outside pool lights. They are also avaliable in different colored "tones" much like incandescents are. They even now have dimmable models avaliable, as well as "3-Way" models. The major outlet home centers like Home Depot and Lowe's have sales on these things, and they can be purchased for about the same price as incandescent bulbs.
As far as energy production and recycling costs it doesn't matter to me because I'm not paying for that. If the bulb costs almost the same to buy and uses one third of the power, and lasts over twice as long, the rest is meaningless to me as the end consumer simply because I've already realized the savings. I don't worry about what little Mercury they contain, or everything else they claim will kill us all. I'm 57 years old and grew up with lead paint, lead in gasoline, even steel beer cans that rusted. I lived through it. I don't recycle. For me it simply isn't worth the bother.
In grammar school in the 60's our science teacher had a large vial of Mercury on his lab desk. We used to take the stuff and rub it on then Silver coins and they would become slippery and shiny. We then went to lunch and ate our sandwiches. We rarely washed our hands. I'm still here. We would pour some of it on to the floor and stomp on it and watch as the little silver colored balls would shoot across the floor. He would scream at us, and give us detentions for doing that, not because it was so poisonous and dangerous, but rather because it was EXPENSIVE! Today if they drop a thermometer they have to shut the school down and call in a Haz-Mat team and spend $250,000.00 to "decontaminate" the place. This has gotten out of control.
My doctor told me on my last visit that in children today between the ages of 10 and 20 years of age, we are at epidemic levels of Diabetes in this country! What is that saying? We're so damn worried about things that won't kill us, we have zero problem ignoring the things that will. What is in store for a kid who is on Insulin at age 10? Dialysis by the time he or she is 30? In a coffin by 45? Ask a 12 year old child who is on Insulin because he or she has eaten a steady diet of sugar coated $h!t their entire lives, willingly provided by their idiot parents who worry about mercury in light bulbs, if they care about what's in a landfill? We need a solid dose of common sense in this country. All of this silly "green" thinking isn't it. I use CFL's to save money. It's as simple as that. I've proven to myself they do work in that regard. As far as what they'll do or not do to a landfill in 400 years, I simply don't have time or energy to worry about such things that are meaningless today, and will most likely be even more so in years to come.
With all of the "change" going on in this country politically, socially, as well as economically, what we are putting in our landfills and choosing to light our homes with is about the very least of or concerns. Or at least it should be. We've got 1.3 BILLION muslims in this world of which 13+ MILLION of them want to kill every single one of us, and are trying to obtain nuclear weapons to do it as we speak. That no one cares about. At least not enough to do anything about it. But drop a thermometer on the floor in a school or hospital and you would think World War III has just broken out. We need to rearrange our thinking. This borders on insanity. Bill T.
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we have had to change
the "Green" ones cost a crap load more ( well there is a surprise )
http://caps.fool.com/Blogs/ban-of-incandescence-bulbs/441381
Ban of Incandescence bulbs fast Approaching
SEPTEMBER 01, 2010 – COMMENTS (5) | RELATED TICKERS: MCP , GE , F
Incandescence bulbs waste 95% of their energy and convert only 5% to actual light. Contrast this to the CFL which converts 25% of input energy to visible light via the Rare Earth phosphor coating. This efficiency results in much lower lamp temperatures, significantly longer life (estimated at 6 to 10 times as long), and less total energy consumed, directly reducing greenhouse gas emissions.
ENERGYSTAR reports that if every home in America replaced just one incandescent light bulb with a qualified CFL then in one year that action would save enough energy to light more than 3 million homes. This would prevent the release of greenhouse gas emissions equal to that of about 800,000 cars.
Countries around the globe are mandating the phase out of incandescent bulbs. Australia led the way by announcing all bulbs must be replaced with CFLs by 2010. The U.S. passed an energy bill that bans incandescent bulbs by 2014.
It is estimated that Rare Earth consumption in this application is growing about 15-20% per year meaning additional supply will be necessary to support this growth.
More information can be found on the ENERGYSTAR website a
http://www.energystar.gov/index.cfm?c=cfls.pr_cfls
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ENERGYSTAR reports that if every home in America replaced just one incandescent light bulb with a qualified CFL then in one year that action would save enough energy to light more than 3 million homes. This would prevent the release of greenhouse gas emissions equal to that of about 800,000 cars.
I replaced a total of 47 of them both inside and out. I did it to save money, nothing more. And for what it's worth I have had 3 out of the 47 go bad in the last 2 years. I kept the receipt and all 3 were replaced without charge. Just the savings from the heat factor that is eliminated I'm sure saves on the amount the A/C runs in the Summer. Incandescents give off a tremendous amount of heat. When I was a kid there was a toy for young girls called the "Easy Bake Oven". It cooked especially prepared meals kids could make with the heat from 1, 100 Watt light bulb.
For what it's worth we just replaced our refrigerator with a new larger, state of the art, 28.5 cubic foot model. It is entirely lit by L.E.D.'s. It's energy rating is less than $50.00 per year, plus we recieved a $300.00 rebate from the state after we bought it. Bill T.
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My sister had an easy bake oven when she was about 5. ( I don't think she has cooked anything since )
Energystar is a Govt thing, they are just as screwed up as everything else the Gov touches. Last summer we had a thread on here about how they gave a rating to a block of wood or some such stupidity.
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My sister had an easy bake oven when she was about 5. ( I don't think she has cooked anything since )
Energystar is a Govt thing, they are just as screwed up as everything else the Gov touches. Last summer we had a thread on here about how they gave a rating to a block of wood or some such stupidity.
I agree, the free market would take care of this in no time, on its own. When power rates increase enough for people to feel the pain, they will automatically seek out cheaper solutions.