The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Defense and Tactics => Topic started by: cooptire on September 23, 2010, 01:18:33 PM
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I have done some looking and reading and looking and...not finding. So I have a question for all. We recently had a situation in my immediate neck of the woods where the Sheriff was in a hot manhunt for a suspect and for two days they couldn't find him. This all went on within about 1/2 to 3/4 of a mile range from my house. I had a 12 year old home alone and when notified by the Sheriff's dept by text and reverse 911 call I had just picked him up for lunch. The wife and other 3 kids were out of town.
My question is: What is the best way to clear a house when you have someone with you who is NOT "part of the team" as it were. I didn't want to leave my son in the truck alone, even with locked doors. I could imagine all kinds of bad scenario's there. But I didn't really want him following me around. I needed to clear the house because the suspect had not been found, but I didn't have any EVIDENCE that he was in my house so I wasn't going to bother the Sheriff to help me just cause I wasn't going to go blindly into the house.
I ended up clearing the house with light and drawn pistol and made him stay one room behind me. Should he be holding on to my belt as I move or should I lock him in a room once cleared. He wasn't really going to be interested in that. He wanted to be with me and I can't blame him. He did make it hard to move freely and would have been really hard to respond to an intruder! In the end, all turned out well and the culprit was caught after stealing a car and trying to run from the deputies.
That was a situation that didn't start out scary, until I thought more about it and got farther into the house. Then the mind started working overtime. Precaution to be sure the house was empty became almost terrifying. As an aside, Turn the phone ringer OFF when doing this. The wife called about halfway through and scared the holy crap out of me and would have alerted any intruders to my location! And she knew what I was doing! Just didn't think it would take as long as I took.
So what does everyone think? Especially interested in what the "Pros" think.
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DON'T!!!
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I'm glad things worked out but I would say house clearing by yourself is a bad idea. With your 12 year old, a really bad idea.
Why did you think the house needed clearing? Just because there was a mope running loose near by? Was there any sign of forced entry?
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No sign of forced entry but the dork had been running around evading the deputies, helicopter, state police and the search dogs from the prison for 2 days in grassland that was about 3/4 of a mile square. He had been breaking into houses and stealing(including guns) without being caught for at least 2 days before that. It is a rural area with lots of plum thickets and sand hills and remarkably easy to hide in terrain but…he had been getting in to houses. No signs in my house of a break-in but I wasn't about to just waltz in knowing that he was talented enough to evade the manhunt that was going on up to that point. It was also over 100 degrees and the mosquito's and ticks were unbelievably bad. I wasn't really worried about him being in there, until about halfway into the second room and doing this for real when I realized how hard and dangerous this could be. Not paranoid, just prepared. Same reason I carry concealed.
This dork was probably a meth head, which made him all the more unpredictable in my mind. Keep in mind that if I had seen any sign that indicated a break-in I would have backed out and called 911. I was 99% sure that the house was clear. It's that 1% that could kill though.
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And just what was the dog doing during this time? ::)
(http://i755.photobucket.com/albums/xx191/saharrold/dogbeer.jpg)
P.S. I'd have retreated and gotten help/reinforcements after taking the kid to safety.
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Came home from work one evening and as I pulled into the driveway, I noticed my front door was open. It has, on occasion, blown open if not properly latched.
I hadn't opened it that morning and it was closed when I left, so I was a bit worried. I was carrying...Ohio had no formal carry law, just you can carry concealed when a "reasonable" person would feel the need. My first thought was to enter and check the house, but figured that besides the risk of an encounter, I'd be likely to faces charges if I came out on top.
So I went to the next door neighbors and called 911 and reported a possible break in. The operator asked me if I had seen someone in the house and I said no that the door was open when i got home. I did not tell them it might have blown open. They said ok and would get someone out.
45 minutes later, I'm still sitting on the neighbors front porch waiting for a response. I had seen two patrol cars pass at a normal pace...no emergency in progress, so I called back. Was told they would get someone out when they had time.
Went in and checked the place my self.
So, if you expect the local police to be your reinforcements or do the job, it might never happen.
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I understand the concerns for the 12 year old, but if you don't feel safe when you return home, you clear your house. When that little voice is telling you something isn't right it is plain stupid to ignore it, AND you're letting that 12 year old down.
I say clear the house, keep the child as safe as possible. You're the parent- do what you think is best and do what you have to.
Coop had a legitimate concern about the safety of his home and neighborhood. Taking the kid "somewhere safe" would defeat the purpose. Clear the house then go get the kid and you're right back where you started.
I don't know what I would do in that situation except that I believe if my brain alarm was going off I'd clear the house.
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Yep, Jaybet is right. No reason to call the cops unlike with solus' door. Still, if you feel nervous, listen to that feeling. Only thing I'd do different is give the kid my cell with 911 diled but not sent, and leave him outside. Tell him to haul ass if anything weird happened. If he can drive, park him in the car with the motor running. Probably nothing, but you'd feel damn stupid if you got killed when you felt something was wrong and didn't use the perfectly good gun you were carrying.
FQ13
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No reason to call the cops Probably nothing, but you'd feel damn stupid if you got killed when you felt something was wrong and didn't use the perfectly good gun you were carrying.
FQ13
That's the thing, I didn't feel like anything was really wrong. I just didn't want to waltz in fat, dumb and happy only to get an unwelcome surprise! If I felt or saw that anything was wrong I would have been calling 911, no question. I wasn't bothering the deputies who were still out hunting because I suddenly became a sheep and couldn't check it out myself. Still didn't enjoy the experience and was worried about the son behind me.
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That's the thing, I didn't feel like anything was really wrong. I just didn't want to waltz in fat, dumb and happy only to get an unwelcome surprise! If I felt or saw that anything was wrong I would have been calling 911, no question.
THATS the little voice I'm talking about. It's the one that tells you something isn't right, even when there is no obvious evidence . Obvious is obvious and you call 911. But when the spidey sense tingles you listen.
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THATS the little voice I'm talking about. It's the one that tells you something isn't right, even when there is no obvious evidence . Obvious is obvious and you call 911. But when the spidey sense tingles you listen.
Sounds like advice from MB's book Trail Safe or the book Afk recommended, Blink, or maybe some hard earned personal insight :D :D
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Thats right....MB mentions that in Trail Safe. I've seen reference to that kind of thing in so many different places. If you get that hinky feeling or hear that voice, you ignore it at your own peril.
On a more everyday level, an old carpenter boss used to say, " If you have to think about it, just go ahead and do it or it WILL come back and bite you on the ass.". Meaning,,, if something is bothering you don't ignore the concern, just address it.
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Thats right....MB mentions that in Trail Safe. I've seen reference to that kind of thing in so many different places. If you get that hinky feeling or hear that voice, you ignore it at your own peril.
On a more everyday level, an old carpenter boss used to say, " If you have to think about it, just go ahead and do it or it WILL come back and bite you on the ass.". Meaning,,, if something is bothering you don't ignore the concern, just address it.
Truth. Even if its thinking you left the toaster oven or the coffee maker on after you leave the house. Go back and check. You only have to be wrong once.
FQ13
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Truth. Even if its thinking you left the toaster oven or the coffee maker on after you leave the house. Go back and check. You only have to be wrong once.
FQ13
Agreed. But, does that mean call 911, or just assume that since their is no evidence of intrusion and no tingle from the spidey sense to just head on in? :o
Seriously, though. Do i "cut the pie" with the kid hanging on the belt so I know where he is, or do I lock him in the truck with the cell phone and tell him to hide on the floor until I come get him and hope that if there is a bad guy, he doesn't take me and then the keys heading for my truck with my kid in it. That is my question.
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Agreed. But, does that mean call 911, or just assume that since their is no evidence of intrusion and no tingle from the spidey sense to just head on in? :o
Seriously, though. Do i "cut the pie" with the kid hanging on the belt so I know where he is, or do I lock him in the truck with the cell phone and tell him to hide on the floor until I come get him and hope that if there is a bad guy, he doesn't take me and then the keys heading for my truck with my kid in it. That is my question.
You don't call 911 for a gut feeling. First, they might not even show up, unless you have Solus' open door. Second, if they do and find nothing, you become the boy who cried wolf. Good luck getting them to respond to your next call.
As far as the kid? Leave him the hell outside. In the house is going to be where the bullets are flying in a worst case scenario. Outside? Even if you lose, the odds of the BG taking time to chase down a 12 year old running like hell, vs getting in your car and just driving away seem low.
Just my .02.
FQ13
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Yup. Lock him in the truck, hiding (with the keys). Worst case if BG tries to get him you'll hear the commotion.
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Given your parameters and with the perfect 20/20 hindsight that all "Monday morning quarterbacks" possess, I say leave the kid in the truck. Lock him in the truck with the keys (stashed in a map pocket or something but not in the ignition) and the cell phone. Tell him that if he sees anyone he is to honk the horn. That way you can break off your house clearing operation and see to the safety of your son. Who knows, if he does honk the horn and it is a false alarm that might give anyone in the house an opportunity to bolt out the back door. Tell him that if he hears shots to call 911 and say that shots have been fired. If he is in the house and things go South, he will be a major liability and will change your tactics for the worse. Not a very appealing situation no matter how you slice it.