The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Defense and Tactics => Topic started by: huntnelk on September 27, 2010, 09:36:57 PM
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Two times in four years in a small town that might see 5 burglaries a year!! Guess I have pissed off someone. Thursday night my wife came home from messing aroud all day and walked by the front door and heard something that sounded like the back gate closing but didn't think anything off it ( she was having a asthma attack so she was kinda in a panic already) until she got to the back door and saw that it was open. She went back to the truck get a pistol so she could clear the house (i love that woman) but thankfully changed her mind and called the Law. They came and cleared the downstairs went back and talked to the wife and she asked about the upstairs and the Law didn't think you could get upstairs so they didn't check it but decided they would then. Luckly my wife interupted they bad guy and nothing happened to her and nothing got stole. Any advise on a security system, the town is to small for one of the big name companies so it will have to be a do it yourself set up. I already have motion lights on both doors and deadbolts on both doors, and a tacti-cool yorkie, but nothing for when we are gone. Thanks for any info.
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Big ass dog? That's not a flip suggestion either. A Belgian or German shepard from good breeding aren't cheap, but if you are a dog person and work with them? You can't ask for better at security. If you duck hunt and have some serious dog experience, a Chesapeake Bay Retriever. As American as the lab. They were just bred to guard the boat as well as fetching the ducks by the old market hunters. Picture a 90 pound brown curly haired lab with a Pit's disposition. They are great bird dogs, a bit headstrong, but smart, and I pity the fool that breaks into a house guarded by a Chessie. They will "fetch" burlars as easily as a goose.
FQ13
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Reality, we can throw 100k into your house and some one will still get in. Trust me, I've repaired just about every break in you can think. When you make the doors/windows hard to break in, they will go thru the wall. Had one client that had them tunnel into the basement from out side with a back hoe. They made it look like they were working on the drain line.
How did they get in?
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Been broken into myself at 2 different locations. Glad things worked out for the best. I'd say land mines but would settle for a big dog, barred windowes, electrified fence and a moat! No kidding! One of the individuals is still lurking nexr door!
Richard
PS: He was implicated in a murder but cleared! He knows I have guns also cause he took 2 when he broke in.
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Often burglaries are committed by local kids looking for thrills and spending cash.
TAB's backhoe caper was obviously a more dedicated crew.
Also, if they broke in once, they are very likely to return. I'd be expecting a return engagement by that guy next door, ellis4538.
You might want to consider hidden video cameras inside. Might not stop them, but could help identify them and convict them.
External cameras might be a deterrent but if they can be spotted they can be defeated by wearing a hood and then destroyed.
The GE Simon security system is one you might consider. It is reasonably prices and is user installable. It used your home wiring for it's connections and communication. Along with the monitors and sensors, a few loud sirens will go a long way to discouraging someone from hanging around. Place a siren or two where they broadcast outside, maybe in the peak vents of the attic if they can be powered up there.
Here is a link to a site that gives some discussion about the features of the Simon system. Do a google search on ge simon to look for the best prices and to locate different components.
http://www.protectamerica.com/pa/ge_simon_xt/ge-simon-xt
If your power shutoff is outside or if your power can be easily shut off from outside, you might want to consider alarms that will sound on battery power if the main is disconnected.
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Big ass dog? That's not a flip suggestion either. A Belgian or German shepard from good breeding aren't cheap, but if you are a dog person and work with them? You can't ask for better at security. If you duck hunt and have some serious dog experience, a Chesapeake Bay Retriever. As American as the lab. They were just bred to guard the boat as well as fetching the ducks by the old market hunters. Picture a 90 pound brown curly haired lab with a Pit's disposition. They are great bird dogs, a bit headstrong, but smart, and I pity the fool that breaks into a house guarded by a Chessie. They will "fetch" burlars as easily as a goose.
FQ13
A barking dog works well. I had a Chessie for 8 years and FQ is correct, they are very protective of what they think is theirs or their pack. Mine was a love bug when I was around but extremely protective of my wife when I was not there. He ended up biting someone who walked into the house in front of my wife as we came home from dinner. The same woman had been playing with him not two hours before.
They are not curly coated Labs! If you don't hunt I would not recommend one for a house pet. They need a job and some fairly heavy exersise to keep them on an even keel. The breed is smart but very stubborn. They want to do things like retrieve their way and that worked for me. My labs were easier to train, the Chesapeake was a much better athlete.
I now have a Red Heeler now who thinks she's as big as the 90 pound Chessie. Works as a good alarm system and is also very protective. She is just as thick headed as the Chessie but in a 25 pound package.
HE, if they got in twice before I would say the odds are they will be back
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I've always heard that a barking dog is the best way to go. If I was in your situation, I'd get a big dog and make sure he is loud if someone goes near the house. I told my brother if he didn't want a dog, then leave the TV on, get a couple of the dog barking audio CD's to play , put a big dog food bowl and water dish on the back porch and have a neighbor with a dog take a few dumps in your yard for more evidence.
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I'd generally echo what FQ said with the same modification noted by ratcatcher55. If you are not going to be regularly hunting with your dog, you don't want a hunting dog. They DO need a job, and will invent one for themselves--like excavating your carpet, eating through your door or wall, modifying your sofa, etc.
My pup is the one you see in my avatar photo. He's 75 pounds of mixed--mostly Chinese Shar Pei, but he got something nice and mellow from his dad--just no idea what it might be. My dog has a very throaty bark that would/should dissuade all but the most determined BG. He's protective in the extreme of everything he considers his territory, and woe to the person who ever attempts to mess with Bunny.
Check your local pound for a pup. Get something you mostly recognize as a breed you could live with. Doggy temperaments are not always breed specific, but they are a good guide. Any of your shepherd breeds should do the job as will most of the other larger breeds. Stay away from anything with "pit" in its name or description. I'd probably stay away from Chow-chows, too.
For what it's worth from a dog-loving Crusader.
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Small town, I'm going to guess it is someone that knows you (or knows someone who knows you) and that you have guns or goodies they want.
Guard dog, train him/her WELL. Only bark when someone comes on the property, doesn't attack (only defends) but doesn't let them in the house without your permission. Doesn't have to be that big, just big enough attitude.
LOCK YOUR DOORS!!! Solid core doors, long-@ss screws in the hinges, deadbolt, regular striker tight enough you can't card the door if you forget the deadbolt. That is $25 per door.
Cheap webcams on the front and back doors.
Change up your schedule. MOST thieves don't want a confrontation and will move on to another unoccupied house if they can't figure out your pattern.
Make sure guns/jewels are locked up in something big enough to take a LOT of motivation to move. Make sure all other valubles are inventoried well for insurance and police reports.
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TAB, they came through the back door with no signs of forced entry. The person who broke in the first time was in jail I am told this time so it wasn't him. Funny thing 3 of my neighbors said they had people outside there house milling around the night before. I think they crook was just casing the night before and saw that we were gone and chose us. I had been at elk camp for 6 days at the time so none of my trucks had moved. Some think that it was just someone passing through but I have my doubts. There are a couple of houses on these 3 blocks that have some shady folks living there. For some reason I just have a gut feeling I could walk you to the door of the A--holes. That is the one good thing about a small town you know who most of the trouble makers are. Thanks for all the ideas about a Chessie, I am a avid waterfowl hunter and have been thinking about a dog but I don't think it will solve my problem since most of the time I am gone I am hunting so the dog will probably be with me.
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TAB, they came through the back door with no signs of forced entry. The person who broke in the first time was in jail I am told this time so it wasn't him. Funny thing 3 of my neighbors said they had people outside there house milling around the night before. I think they crook was just casing the night before and saw that we were gone and chose us. I had been at elk camp for 6 days at the time so none of my trucks had moved. Some think that it was just someone passing through but I have my doubts. There are a couple of houses on these 3 blocks that have some shady folks living there. For some reason I just have a gut feeling I could walk you to the door of the A--holes. That is the one good thing about a small town you know who most of the trouble makers are. Thanks for all the ideas about a Chessie, I am a avid waterfowl hunter and have been thinking about a dog but I don't think it will solve my problem since most of the time I am gone I am hunting so the dog will probably be with me.
if that is the case, there are only 3 ways they could have gotton in.
1they had a key/picked the lock(most locks are pretty easy to pick)
2 it was unlocked
3 they came in thru a window/crawl space
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I recommend a German Shepherd (Ok. I'm Biased. Any large dog with a loud thunderous bark would do. Rottwieler,a big lab, American Bulldog.... I could go on....) for starters. I'll echo everybody's "A big loud dog is usually a good deterrent" statement. They work even better if they're house trained. (A dog in the yard may or may not prevent the thieves from coming in the house when you aren't home.) Glad no one was hurt and nothing was stolen.
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I sent this as a PM originally, but thought I'd post it. As a pretty serious bird dog guy, I thought I'd promote an FDSB Chessie or an FDSB or NAVDA Drathaar. Still, the post might be of general interest, and might sitr some controversy as I am all in favor of buying from a reputable breeder and have little use for "pound puppies". That's just my thing, YMMV. Anyway, here's the post.
FQ13
To:
Huntnelk
If you want a good retriever, I can't reccomend a Chessie enough. I'm a pointer guy myself. I prefer quail to ducks (though I do like duck hunting), but living in Florida? If you use a retriever, you better not get too attached to it, as the gators love their dogs. :P
Still, a chessie is a great breed. They are more athletic than a lab and a whole lot "sharper", and a lot more stubborn. They are not fluffy bunnies. Buying a chessie is like buying a gun. They are smart and affectionate and damn good at what they do. They will kick a lab's ass in cold water (like you have in Wyoming) every day of the week. That said, they will bite and need serious discipline and training, and here I'm talking the "Dog Whisperer" not Michael Vick.
Just understand, they are not a dog you buy and ignore. Buy it young, train it well, and work with it daily and you're good. Fail to do that? Its your own damn fault. I would highly recoomend Field Dog Stud Book dogs over the AKC. AKC dogs are breed for confirmation. FDSB dogs are bred for performance. They will cost close to a grand. But that thousand bucks will be the least amount of money you ever spend on the dog when you factor in vet bills, dogfood, chew toys etc.. The Quaker's opinion is that it's as easy to love a good dog as a bad one. Rescue dogs are nice in theory. Real life? Why not give youself the best chance for success you can? Buy once and buy right. I'd start with the "American Field" and "Gun Dog Digest". The breeders who advertise are generally solid. Even if they don't breed your type of dog, they probably know someone who does. The serious bird dog world is pretty small. Most breeders know each other and frauds don't last long.
FQ13
PS if you do upland hunting as well, Draathars, or German wire haired pointers, would fit the bill as well. If you can't hit the bird, the dog can always just ugly them to death. ;D Plus, they are good for ducks and will cheerfully eat your ass. They are just terminally goofy, but still good hunters, good pets and not what a thief wants to run into.
Here's the address of "American Field". You won't find it in store's and you are cheating youself if you don't subscribe and use it to find a good breeder. No BS, the 6 month subscrition is the best money you'll spend, as you will get in touch with some very serious folks who will be happy to give you advice. Their advertisers are the real deal, and most don't care if you buy their dogs or not. You might find yourself on a waiting list. A man with more business than he can handle is an honest man, simply because he doesn't need your money and thus has no reason to lie. Buy the mag, make the calls, and engage these guys in conversation. You'll learn a lot if you are patient, and you'll probably find a good pup as well. Just sayin' that the hours I've spent chatting these guys up haven't been wasted.
http://www.americanfield.com/
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FQ, we have been really considering a Draathar simply because by Bro-in-law had one and he was great. The sweetest dog in the world unless you messed with his home or boy and then he was a terror.
TAB they either picked the door or found our spare key. It was locked for sure and the spare key isn't even in the same area as the door it is in an out building but you never can tell.
Thanks again for all the info
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What kind of lock set does it have?
if your not sure a pic of the inside, the out side and the bolt plate. I will most likly be able to ID it.
Some brands/ models are known for being very easy to bump key.(google/ youtube and you will see how easy it is.)
Locked for sure means very little. I've seen doors that were locked where the bolt was not inguage the strike plate, or were not shut all the way. I've also seen jambs with a gap big enough to get a took in them and leaver the lock open.( the knob kind)
I'd also look around the out side of you house for a window that could have been gotten into.
Edit
Any standard lock set can be raked,( other then say a medeco style lock, which takes a key cut in 3d, even then they make tools for them, they are just not cheap and require a lock smith lic to buy.).
The cheap ones are very easy to rake, the better lock sets are not. I've seen them even frustate pros with 35+ years exp. Those are few and far between. Of corse not many people can aford a $500 dead bolt
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It has a Kwikset door knob I am not sure of the model. Just your standard door knob. I would bet that the door was locked but possible not shut all the way like you mentioned. I watched the bump key video...wow that is a little to easy.
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The older kwiksets are the easyest to bump.
Thet have gotton better, but still very easy.
Its why I sintall them on all the rental units I rehab. That way if I ever need to get in, I just bump it.
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My $0.02:
Harden the house.
Bars, security doors, dogs, alarm systems, plants under the windows that poke, prick, and stick. It's all part of a layered system. Any system can be defeated, but the more layers the longer it takes to defeat. That time is what works in your favor. If it takes too long, or a badguy or gal thinks it will take too long, they will move on to another target. Time works in your favor, as the more time spent defeating a system the increased chance at discovery.
Biker
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Get a security system. It won't stop someone from breaking in, but it will call someone when they do. Also, would you stay in a house with a siren blaring away in the house. Call one of the national companies. They may not have a dealer in the area, but they DO have an authorized contractor in the area that can handle the installation for you. I do installations for ADT, but I don't work for ADT. Here in Texas you have to be licensed by the state to do security installations. I'm sure it's the same where your at. Just make sure you're dealing with a licensed contractor.
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I have a large breed dog (Akita), it was never trained to protect anything, but if it doesn't know you and I don't walk you through the door expect to be picked up and carried away! I'm not suggesting an Akita as they need room and want to work, or as crusader rabbit put it "They DO need a job, and will invent one for themselves--like excavating your carpet, eating through your door or wall, modifying your sofa, etc." My dog is pushing 190lbs doesn't bark and can easily drag my 160lbs through the house, they were bred to pin down yazo bears in japan and they are the epitome of loyalty and protection. I've told my girlfriend if you hear a noise and I get my gun it's only cause there's a second person as Ryu will be busy eating the first.
It's said they don't like small animals (consider them food) but my gf's pug mix and Ryu have gotten along from day one, if I didn't own a gun I wouldn't feel any less secure during a break in, again assuming my dog isn't preoccupied with the first person to come in. they are a spendy breed, get bored easy and will destroy your house if left unchecked, he's there when I go to work and in the same place when I come back, we set a camera up and in the 9 hrs I was gone he left his spot at the window by the door twice, I'm assuming to eat and drink.
If anyone considers and Akita make sure you do alot of socializing we were warned but haven't had too many close calls like I said if your new and I'm not letting you in the door your gonna hurt. Listen to me, anytime I get to brag my dog up I do it, sorry bout that guess I'm a proud "father" ;D
Good luck huntnelk on your problem, hope you all is resolved soon
As a side note if your curious to the devotion of an Akita google HachikÅ when researching the breed it was the final thing that cemented me in my decision to get an Akita, and although every breed exhibits loyalty and maybe I'm being biased I believe the Akita has Loyalty on lock down.
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My house got broke into, I want to buy a gun.
And a bottle of Pepto for my dog. ;D
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My house got broke into, I want to buy a gun.
And a bottle of Pepto for my dog. ;D
But you don't need to buy as muchdog food next time...
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Always looking at the bright side aren't you ;D
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My cars have been broken into 11 times in the last 10 years. Police here are ineffective and cant be everywhere at once, of course. A few times, I had accidentally left the car unlocked. My 10 year old boxer alerted me last time it happened. As I opened the door, said dummy was jumping my privacy fence. A couple of minutes later he came waliking down the street past my house as nothing had happened. My wife started yelling at him and he was acting as if he had not been at my house etc..At that point, I was just trying to restrain my wife (she is quite outspoken) and staying in my doorway. This was at 3am and I have a toddler as well so my thinking was to get L.E. on the way and keep my perimeter. Every bone in my body wanted to detain the dummy but my common sense dictated I protect my family by staying put. There are so many breaki ins and robberies here I am now always in Condition Yellow so to speak, trying to be hyper aware of my surroundings, even when taking the trash out..My boxer serves me well though. If she gets mad, no one gets close to my door. She knows how to bring the noise ;-)
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My cars have been broken into 11 times in the last 10 years. Police here are ineffective and cant be everywhere at once, of course. A few times, I had accidentally left the car unlocked. My 10 year old boxer alerted me last time it happened. As I opened the door, said dummy was jumping my privacy fence. A couple of minutes later he came waliking down the street past my house as nothing had happened. My wife started yelling at him and he was acting as if he had not been at my house etc..At that point, I was just trying to restrain my wife (she is quite outspoken) and staying in my doorway. This was at 3am and I have a toddler as well so my thinking was to get L.E. on the way and keep my perimeter. Every bone in my body wanted to detain the dummy but my common sense dictated I protect my family by staying put. There are so many breaki ins and robberies here I am now always in Condition Yellow so to speak, trying to be hyper aware of my surroundings, even when taking the trash out..My boxer serves me well though. If she gets mad, no one gets close to my door. She knows how to bring the noise ;-)
Sounds like you and the dog reacted properly. You are not a cop, if you are not in danger your best option, from both a legal, as well as safety stand point, is to get a good description and pass it on to those who get paid to confront scumbags.
You don't say where you are, but in most places, had your wife's mouth led to a violent confrontation she, and possibly you if you were armed, would have been held responsible for escalating a non threatening situation.
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I am in Louisville KY, but you are correct. The misses is not afraid to show her displeasure (poor me, lol) but I am teaching her the importance of avoidance. Looking back, my next step would have been to button up the house and keep 911 on the line, had the intruder advanced towards my house from the street. I used this as a lesson for both me and the wife. I am no master of tactics by any means but falling back and going into protective mode instead of acting aggressively towards the intruder seems the best scenario. Police can deal with him on the street if they make it in time.
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Need to teach the Missus that a couple of basics of Self Defense are Avoidance, and DEescalation. ;D
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Need to teach the Missus that a couple of basics of Self Defense are Avoidance, and DEescalation. ;D
I think in Ky that class goes like this: "Shut up and get in the truck". ;D
FQ13
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I think in Ky that class goes like this: "Shut up and get in the truck". ;D
FQ13
What do you tell a woman with 2 black eye's ?
Nothing, you already told her twice ;D
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You can't beat a woman who shoots. :)
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I think in Ky that class goes like this: "Shut up and get in the truck". ;D
FQ13
That's Redneck foreplay. ;)
Biker