The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Tactical Rifle & Carbine => Topic started by: Texas_Bryan on October 03, 2010, 09:06:59 AM
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Team,
I've had my Ruger, not a proper Mini, M-14/20 GBTX for a couple years now, and I'm thinking about selling/trading it to buy a different carbine, probably an AK. Your thoughts are appreciated. I'll go ahead and give you mine.
Pro of switching:
Crappy magazine situation of a Mini
Cheaper ammo offered by a commie bloc weapon
Cheaper weapon leaving cash for ammo and what personalization I might want to do
No optics mounting capabilities on my Mini without pain in the assery
Cons of switching:
Likes my Mini
Runs .223/5.56 that's always around and can buy
I'm lazy...
Could be more trouble than its worth
Thoughts??? And anyone know what a M-14/20 GB with three 20 round Ruger mags might go for? Its government issues and its all stamped 'Law Enforcement Use Only', for what little that matters in non ban states.
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My opinion would be ditch the mini 14, get some thing you can get cheap mags and ammo for, AK, or SKS.
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Ditto. Accuracy won't get any worse with an AK and may even improve. Ammo is just as easy to find and cheaper, since you feed it com bloc crap like wolf and it will love it (well duh, that's what it was built for ;)). The Ak mags are a bit pricier than AR mags but bargains can be had. Buy your gun from some place like classic arms or J@G sales and they offer packages and pretty good rates on mil surp mags. Plus the 7.62x39 is big enough to hunt with. Frankly, I can't think of a single reason to own a mini over an AK.
FQ13
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Check around and see if you can get your price. Might find you can't and have to keep it. On the other hand someone might be looking.
Richard
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When changing mags in an AK, don't you have to 'rock' it in just like a Ruger?
Never used an AK and was wondering, since that was a stated issue in the OP.
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When changing mags in an AK, don't you have to 'rock' it in just like a Ruger?
Never used an AK and was wondering, since that was a stated issue in the OP.
Indeed you do, but in a Mini you actually have to strip the mag out with a downward force, the whole thing is pain on the go and requires a significant amount of physical movement of the rifle.
I'm just not quite sure what to ask for this rifle. I've seen someone ask for $750 for the same rifle, DPS issue from a cruiser with a single mag, we all know how big a deal mags are when it comes to Mini's. This rifles only seen 300 rounds and hasn't even looked at a squad car, I got it new in the box out of a supply closet sitting next to some post it notes. And as much as I can find at fault with it someone out there just loves Mini's.
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Sold my Mini-14, never looked back. Only gun I sold that I didn't regret the minute I handed it over. Mostly cuz of the mages, but also I liked shooting things better. No problems, just didn't need it anymore.
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OK. Let's say I've made up my mind to sell the Mini, I have assuming I can get the right price and it not be a nightmarish pain, and I want an AK, where do I start? All I know is that I've looked at some and and I would like a 5.45mm pattern rifle, the ammo is hella cheap. Who here knows AK's and want's to speak their mind? ::) Also I might just see if I can work out a trade deal.
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Have you ever taken it to a gun show? Sling it over your shoulder with a sign sticking out of the barrel with your price on it or trade for AK-47. What are you asking for it?
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I've never been to a gun show, I'd recon I'd sell it on Texas Gun Trader, have had friends with quick results on that classifieds. I figure a M-14 GB with three twenty rounders out to about $600-750, that sounds reasonable right? I figure it would be easier to get a trade/cash out to that value on that though for some reason. I'm just not too sure what the market is like on Mini's at the moment. I'm a bit hesitant on shipping and dealing with FFL's and what have you, just because its all new to me, but I guess I could figure it out.
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anybody ever heard of rebarreling a mini 14? It'd be worth looking into weather or not it shares recievers with the mini-30. If so there may be a few options available to you as far as a new / custom caliber. Getting a new barrel made would be cheaper than buying a new rifle. And having the one off custom would be fun IMO. :)
For that matter, if having the barrel custom made, why not go "heavy" with it? A 20" bull barrel would be cool! Maybe 22-250? Ruger .204? Or look into the .30 caliber options.
Could be BIG fun for what you'll end up spending in optics alone on a new rifle!
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anybody ever heard of rebarreling a mini 14? It'd be worth looking into weather or not it shares recievers with the mini-30. If so there may be a few options available to you as far as a new / custom caliber. Getting a new barrel made would be cheaper than buying a new rifle. And having the one off custom would be fun IMO. :)
For that matter, if having the barrel custom made, why not go "heavy" with it? A 20" bull barrel would be cool! Maybe 22-250? Ruger .204? Or look into the .30 caliber options.
Could be BIG fun for what you'll end up spending in optics alone on a new rifle!
Would be a fun project, but for a working carbine there is still issues:
magazines
odd calibers
magazines
magazines
that receiver isn't optics ready
One of these days when I get all the big bucks I want that sexy Mini 14 Target rifle.
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Quoth TexasBryan:
I've never been to a gun show, I'd recon I'd sell it on Texas Gun Trader, have had friends with quick results on that classifieds. I figure a M-14 GB with three twenty rounders out to about $600-750, that sounds reasonable right? I figure it would be easier to get a trade/cash out to that value on that though for some reason. I'm just not too sure what the market is like on Mini's at the moment. I'm a bit hesitant on shipping and dealing with FFL's and what have you, just because its all new to me, but I guess I could figure it out."
End quote
I reply:
That would be my first bet. Second would be this. Classic Arms offers good deals on AKs. You can get a wasser with 3-4 mags, sling and soft case for under $500 and move up from there to Bulgarians, yugos, etc. They also sell millsurp ammo and millsurp steel mags cheap. So does J@G sales. I might just look on both sights, put togther a package, guns, mags, ammo etc, and then ask what they'll give you for your mini. Its a saleable gun. Folks like Rugers (I'm one of them). It might be less hassel to just trade wholesale to wholesale. That said, I think $650 is on the wild side of optimimistic. Dick's guns was selling new ones at that price, but research it). Look on guntrader on completed autions and see what they actually sell for, and check Gander, Basspro, etc.. I'd be happy with $400-$450. But, you don't ask, you don't get. Reality, an even money trade on an AK and you buying some discounted mags and ammo on top of that would be be a win if it were me in your shoes.
FQ13
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anybody ever heard of rebarreling a mini 14? It'd be worth looking into weather or not it shares recievers with the mini-30. If so there may be a few options available to you as far as a new / custom caliber. Getting a new barrel made would be cheaper than buying a new rifle. And having the one off custom would be fun IMO. :)
For that matter, if having the barrel custom made, why not go "heavy" with it? A 20" bull barrel would be cool! Maybe 22-250? Ruger .204? Or look into the .30 caliber options.
Could be BIG fun for what you'll end up spending in optics alone on a new rifle!
http://www.accuracysystemsinc.com/index.php
(http://www.accuracysystemsinc.com/home_img/Kreigerbarrel.gif)
http://accuracyriflesystems3.homestead.com/
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I don't quite trust GunBroker, seen a few guns go local for alot more than their finals, on price. I think I'll end up doing some research into exactly what I plan on buying first.
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http://www.accuracysystemsinc.com/index.php
(http://www.accuracysystemsinc.com/home_img/Kreigerbarrel.gif)
http://accuracyriflesystems3.homestead.com/
The question is why? The mini was a cute little mini Garand. We liked it for that reason. It just didn't quite work out. To spend all the cash to modify one like that? You could buy a $1200 M1-A1 and probably come out ahead and have twice the rifle right out of the box.
FQ13
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Can't really go wrong with AK's, You can pay $350 for the same thing being toted by Ho Chi Boris Abdul.
or you can pay more for better quality, or accuracy. It's foolish, it's a freaking AK, If you want to put hogs in the freezer, it's your gun, You want bullseyes get a Garand.
Don't waste your money on that crappy little 5.45, get a real bullet.
Buying and selling through Gun Broker etc is fairly painless, The buyer sends you money and a copy of his FFL's license, your FFL sends the gun to that address after the check clears.
Prices vary by region, for example, a Ruger Deerfeild Carbine 44 mag. would bring more here in the forests, than it would in BillT's area where you have flat open land.
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Can't really go wrong with AK's, You can pay $350 for the same thing being toted by Ho Chi Boris Abdul.
or you can pay more for better quality, or accuracy. It's foolish, it's a freaking AK, If you want to put hogs in the freezer, it's your gun, You want bullseyes get a Garand.
Don't waste your money on that crappy little 5.45, get a real bullet.
Dittos as well. The 5.45 is a fool's bargain.
A) not enough gun, its less than a 5.56
B) far fewer mags/parts out there
C) far less ammo available. Once the surplus runs out, you're screwed. And it wasn't a long production run like 8mm mauser, or 7.62x54 or 7.62x39.
Sooner rather than later, you'll wish you'd bought a regular AK. Just my .02.
FQ13
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Dittos as well. The 5.45 is a fool's bargain.
A) not enough gun, its less than a 5.56
B) far fewer mags/parts out there
C) far less ammo available. Once the surplus runs out, you're screwed. And it wasn't a long production run like 8mm mauser, or 7.62x54 or 7.62x39.
Sooner rather than later, you'll wish you'd bought a regular AK. Just my .02. Voice of experience
FQ13
I had to ;D
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I had to ;D
Hell yeah! And I've had fun with every single mistake too. 8) ;D
FQ13
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Dittos as well. The 5.45 is a fool's bargain.
A) not enough gun, its less than a 5.56
B) far fewer mags/parts out there
C) far less ammo available. Once the surplus runs out, you're screwed. And it wasn't a long production run like 8mm mauser, or 7.62x54 or 7.62x39.
Sooner rather than later, you'll wish you'd bought a regular AK. Just my .02.
FQ13
Really? I was under the impression that 5.45 was the standard issue for many countries, in fact replacing the 7.62mm. Not the same variety of mags but a quantity out there still at near the same price. And its less than the 5.56 by eleven hundreds of a milimeter, but the Reds choose to replace the 7.62 with it? I'm not particularly attached to either as a potential new rifle, but I don't want to blindly slander available options.
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The 5.45mm is almost the same size as the 5.56mm but it's even less powerful. Why would anyone want a rifle with less power than a 5.56mm?
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Really? I was under the impression that 5.45 was the standard issue for many countries, in fact replacing the 7.62mm. Not the same variety of mags but a quantity out there still at near the same price. And its less than the 5.56 by eleven hundreds of a milimeter, but the Reds choose to replace the 7.62 with it? I'm not particularly attached to either as a potential new rifle, but I don't want to blindly slander available options.
You certainly shouldn't take my word for it, but heres the rationale. The combloc went to 5.45 for the same reason we went to 5.56 (and any thoughts of us standardizing to make life easier for the grunts? ;D). Anyway, flatter trajectory, less recoil, less weight. Great. Still, less terminal energy. Now, we are thinking about going heavier, .308 again, while they are going lighter. Take your pick.
Still, for a cheap, easy to feed, fix, replace, do anything, shtf/hunting rifle, I'd take the old AKs in a heart beat. More availability of everything as I posted, plus enough gun to hunt with. If you want the smaller and lighter caliber, with more accuracy? I'd go AR.
Any of the three you'll have fun, but If I could choose free of charge, between an AK-47, an AR or an AK-74, a .545 would be my last choice. Honestly, I'd flip a coin between the AK and AR price be damned. Just my .02.
FQ13
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Really? I was under the impression that 5.45 was the standard issue for many countries, in fact replacing the 7.62mm. Not the same variety of mags but a quantity out there still at near the same price. And its less than the 5.56 by eleven hundreds of a milimeter, but the Reds choose to replace the 7.62 with it? I'm not particularly attached to either as a potential new rifle, but I don't want to blindly slander available options.
It was a cost cutting measure.
Their economy was in the crapper when things were good, during that era they were anything but.
Reagan scared the crap out of them and was forcing them to spend on high tech weaponry.
Meanwhile they had the war in Afghanistan which was also a money pit.
If you go to a smaller bullet you can make more of them with the same amount of resources, or , you can make the same number and use the saved resources elsewhere.
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Both the AK-47 and the Ruger Mini 14 are bullet hoses. Neither should collide with the word "accuracy" in the same sentence. With that said you can make both shoot better, but it's not what they were designed to do. A bit like trying to make a Silk purse from a Sows ear. Of the 2, the AK-47 can be had much cheaper, ($400.00 for a GP 1975 Romanian vs. $700.00+ for a Mini), and the 7.62 X 39 MM can be had cheaper, (1,260 round case of Yugo for right around $200.00). So based on that the AK-47 is a much better buy. I have both, but only 1 Mini and several AK's.
For what you would have to put into a Mini to make it shoot, you could have a nice AR-15 that WILL shoot right from the box. It really is apples and oranges, but if I had to choose, I would go with the AK-47 hands down. Cheaper, more rugged, cheaper, harder hitting ammo, same relative accuracy from either. Bill T.
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Pick your flavor
http://www.centerfiresystems.com/ak_firearms.aspx (http://www.centerfiresystems.com/ak_firearms.aspx)
http://www.myvirtualpaper.com/doc/Centerfire-Systems-Inc/centerfiresystems_earlyfallcatalog_2010/2010091601/ (http://www.myvirtualpaper.com/doc/Centerfire-Systems-Inc/centerfiresystems_earlyfallcatalog_2010/2010091601/)
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C'mon get happy..........
http://www.krebscustom.com/KalashnikovRifles.shtml
http://www.gunsmagazine.com/Rangingshots.html
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C'mon get happy..........
http://www.krebscustom.com/KalashnikovRifles.shtml
http://www.gunsmagazine.com/Rangingshots.html
$2,000 for an AK????? :o :o :o That's for a three pack, right? ::)
FQ13 who really wants to slap someone who wants to buy a "tactical' AK. As opposed to what? The other kind? ::) ???
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$2,000 for an AK????? :o :o :o That's for a three pack, right? ::)
FQ13 who really wants to slap someone who wants to buy a "tactical' AK. As opposed to what? The other kind? ::) ???
Well, you get what you pay for. These are not your run of the mill AK's. They are reworked with precision internal parts to aid function and accuracy. No different than with the Mini.....and just like BillT said, it is "what it is" with both rifles. It depends on what you want to do and personal preference as to what you get and how much you spend.
Coyote/varmint/Truck gun that will shoot any ammo, anytime you press the go button, with mediocre accuracy= Mini-14.
SHTF, mediocre accuracy, medium-range man-killer that will also digest anything you feed it but with bigger bullets= AK-47 or variant.
Super accurate, potentially ammo sensitive, all-around multi-use rifle= AR.
Pick ya poison.
Any of the above choices can be made do do all of the above, but it will cost you.
Just like drag racing, speed cost money......... How fast ya wanna go?
;)
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Well, you get what you pay for. These are not your run of the mill AK's. They are reworked with precision internal parts to aid function and accuracy. No different than with the Mini.....and just like BillT said, it is "what it is" with both rifles. It depends on what you want to do and personal preference as to what you get and how much you spend.
Coyote/varmint/Truck gun that will shoot any ammo, anytime you press the go button, with mediocre accuracy= Mini-14.
SHTF, mediocre accuracy, medium-range man-killer that will also digest anything you feed it but with bigger bullets= AK-47 or variant.
Super accurate, potentially ammo sensitive, all-around multi-use rifle= AR.
Pick ya poison.
Any of the above choices can be made do do all of the above, but it will cost you.
Just like drag racing, speed cost money......... How fast ya wanna go?
;)
I like you Peg. ;D
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My Saiga AK, was less than $400. Put a Tapco Interfuse stock on it, $50. Has never hiccuped, with any ammo, including some middle eastern surplus manufactured in the 70's, that a friend had. Stick with 7.62, leave the 5.45 stuff for those who plink...
Loves, Tula, Wolf, milsurp, etc,... at 100yds, shoots pie plate accurate. Simple to clean, lube, maintain. Hell, throw motor oil on it, use a boot lace to swab the barrel and keep going.
It is what it is. No optics necessary.
The mini's I've shot are what they are also. Ask yourself.
Do I "need" it
Could I use something more user friendly
Is it cheaper to shoot
Will it work in a SHTF scenario, better than some others
Do I really want to get rid of my mini
There are posts, from folks, that love their mini's. Just find the niche you want to fill, and you'll make the right choice. Either way.
Or keep the mini, save some coinage, and get an AK... Good prices around for them. Up to the ridiculous $2000... :o
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AR's in a SHTF scenario... ;D ;D ;D
It's gonna be so much fun looking in the mud for teeny tiny little pins, rings, n springs the first time you clean / unjam such a jewel. Detail striping using dirty rags to wipe parts while surrounded by mud, leaves, sand... Mmmmm, can't wait to do that! And the rifle responds so well to being cleaned with limited supplies in an unperfect environment. More vet's would be happy to tell you stories, but. Oh, yeah. Well, many just aren't around for some reason...
That firing pin retainer is at least twice the size of a very small ant. Should be no problem to find! :) And what harm would a little sand on the gas rings do? No worries! ;)
Should it actually fire... Least we not forget all that .223 stopping power! ::)
Sorry, just have to get it out of my system once in a while. ;)
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OK then Badger, since your the resident AK expert, what should I look for in an AK? Are there some rebuilders to stay away from, countries of origin, models?
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Actually FQ has been doing A LOT of market research and could point you in the right direction.
Were it me... It'd be building my own! For that matter, I'd build three, sell two to cover the cost of the one I keep, and the tools needed, and only have to pay out of pocket for a bunch of magazines and ammo! ;)
If you've got a work bench and a vise. You can build as good of one as any you'll find to buy! NOT hard.
Most simple and important things to look for in either a complete rifle, or bare reciever are the dents in the side. YOU WANT THEM.
(http://www.nodakspud.com/images/NDS-2T-1web.jpg)
Then look around the lip of the mag. well. See if it's been opened up with a dremel tool (yes, this is actually common!). YOU DON'T WANT THAT.
And don't believe any idiot that tells you single claw or double claw triggers are any better than one another.
http://www.nodakspud.com/page2.htm (http://www.nodakspud.com/page2.htm)
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Actually FQ has been doing A LOT of market research and could point you in the right direction.
Were it me... It'd be building my own! For that matter, I'd build three, sell two to cover the cost of the one I keep, and the tools needed, and only have to pay out of pocket for a bunch of magazines and ammo! ;)
If you've got a work bench and a vise. You can build as good of one as any you'll find to buy! NOT hard.
Me? Since when did I become the expert? I did a lot of research, but still wound up with an AR (a coin toss decision as I said earlier). All I can advise is two things. First go to Classic Arms. They seem like honest folk with a good selection and good pricies. Second? Google BillT's phone number. Call Melanie while he's at work. She'll probably make you a hell of a deal. She might even throw in some ammo if you include a mask in your offer. ;D
FQ13
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Coyote/varmint/Truck gun that will shoot any ammo, anytime you press the go button, with mediocre accuracy= Mini-14.
SHTF, mediocre accuracy, medium-range man-killer that will also digest anything you feed it but with bigger bullets= AK-47 or variant.
Super accurate, potentially ammo sensitive, all-around multi-use rifle= AR.
Pick ya poison.
Meet my new truck guns;
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i sold mine because of the accuracy but it would eat any type of ammo, bought a m&p 15 with a dpms upper it has great accuracy but does not like cheap ammo but i am happy with it