The Down Range Forum
Flying Dragon Productions ( Michael Bane ) => The Best Defense on My Outdoor TV => Topic started by: edglaze on October 11, 2010, 05:27:58 PM
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On so many of the self defense shows and trainings we are told how to pie a room and clear a house but very little is said about the risk of being shot through interior walls. One episode, not sure which show, did use simunitions and an ambush scenario but even that didn't mention the threat of being shot through the wall.
It's best to assume that home invaders/burglars are smart, armed, and not alone — yet the trainings usually show how to deal only with static threats that don't shoot back. Even yelling at them to drop the gun before shooting the first bad guy would warn the other bad guys who then wouldn't be caught so unprepared. Granted, that's the nature of paper targets in shoot houses but maybe for TV some force-on-force should be used more often to show the vulnerability of a homeowner being shot at through the wall, especially if he leads with a flashlight or laser which better shows his location.
Unlike the cops we don't have bullet resistant armor but it seems most home clearing scenarios treat the interior walls as cover instead of the concealment they really are.
We've seen episodes testing the penetration of various rounds through interior walls and I think the trainers really ought to warn homeowners of the threat. Bad guys at night will see the flashlight moving through the home, even its momentary use, and that could lead to an ambush of the homeowner. If nothing else, some additional warnings could be given along with the advice to stay in a defensible room and emphasize a homeowner who must move to protect other family members is at a greater disadvantage than is shown by dealing with paper targets in a shoot house.
What would be the best defense for a homeowner who is under attack in their own home — retreat to a safe room, shoot it out, or leave the home ASAP? Not always will a house clearing go as planned and it should be assumed that the bad guys also watch the Best Defense and similar shows. After all, they make their living breaking into homes and have more experience at it than the homeowner who must defend against them.
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Actually, Best Defense did do one on the best method during an invasion, which included retreating (typically to bedroom) and taking a defensive position. I believe they included in the show the consideration of where your stray shots my go.
But the scenario is different than "clearing".
In the BD scenario, you have obvious invaders, who pursue you to your hide. Another scenario would be invaders, that let you retreat and then ransack your property, not attempting to breech your hide. The former was covered in the show. And in the latter you wait for police to arrive.
But the one we encounter most often, I believe, is the uncertain one. Was that noise an invader? Is there some one breaking in the door? Was I dreaming? Is someone else in the house? Is it a house noise, or just an animal on the roof? At the window?
Now we're in the realm of either, waiting it out or investigating (clearing). Do we call 911 when we don't know? Do we just lay awake in the bed until we hear a confirming noise or we fall asleep from boredom? I've done all of these things. Maybe I'm just getting old and crochety, but I don't have the patient to loose sleep over what 99.99% of the time is just the house creaking or a picture falling off the wall, or an animal outside. I get up immediately and investigate. I try to do it as quietly and quickly as possible. I want the element of surprise on my side. I have the advantage with the knowledge of layout.
I believe in operating from a position of stealth. To that end, the flashlight isn't there so I can see my way about, but illuminate the target, once I know I have a target. For this reason, I do not like lasers, as they give away position and presence. Yes you can not light them up until you are ready to shoot. But with grip activated, you then can't get a good grip on the gun until the last moment. And with other activation methods it means an extra step that you may not have the presence of mind to do at the last second.
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Shooting through walls violates basic rules of safe shooting.
Know your target, and whats behind your target.
Was that the BG you just blasted, or one of your kids trying to get to you ?
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I understand edglaze's points and see some validity to them. A lot of training scenarios are done with static targets and that doesn't always work in the real world. A bad guy might not stand still and wait on you to 'pie the room'. He might decide to shoot you through the door. That is one of the downfalls to training. Everyone needs to train, but don't become complacent in said training, because it can't totally prepare you for the unexpected.
Bad guys don't always follow safe shooting rules. One of our security guards where I used to work was a retired deputy sheriff. He told me about several occasions where people shot at them through doors while serving warrants.
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I had it turned around, OOPS ;D
I'll leave it though as it is something to consider,
Life and death situations do not suspend your legal and moral responsibility for every round fired.
Spray and pray is why gangbangers hit every one on a block, except the guy they're after.
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I had it turned around, OOPS ;D
I'll leave it though as it is something to consider,
Life and death situations do not suspend your legal and moral responsibility for every round fired.
Spray and pray is why gangbangers hit every one on a block, except the guy they're after.
Agree 100%.......
I do not advocate shooting through doors or walls either......I could see resorting to that tactic if perhaps an intruder was shooting at the hinges or lock trying to gain access to my 'last stand' position.