The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: Ksail101 on November 24, 2010, 02:05:17 AM
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I learned something new today. In the midst of our super winter wonderland (Global Warming LOL) our power has gone out. Well guess what the gas pumps at the Gas Station use, you got Electricity. So for a pretty large area in WA state you cant get gas for your vehicle, and heres the clincher your, generator that you are going to use to power the house that has no heat or lights in 15 degree weather.
So my question is does anyone store gas in any quantity for something like this? I dont know how well gas stores is the problem. Do you need some sort of stabilizer in it? Any one ever ran into this problem before. Now we fortunate enough to be able to get gas 10-15 miles away but if I could see that could become something a whole more serious depending on you situation.
PS I am crashing at another family member's house thats how this being able to be sent out.
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I use a Honda generator that runs on propane tanks for just that reason. Not to mention its a whole lot safer to store. In the event of serious long term power outage? You're stuck siphoning out of the fill holes of gas station tanks. Obviously, less than ideal. I honestly belive that in a TEOTAWAKI situation, if you can't saddle it, paddle it, sail it, or pedal it, its good for about a month tops. Propane lasts, gas doesn't. Bio-diesel? Beyond my pay grade, but an option. Still, I would count on good old fashioned KISS for any survival situation.
FQ13 who has his canoe, Moutain bike and backpacking gear. Not Paranoid, just a swamp rat who isn't afraid of the the 'Glades.
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There are additives that you can buy that will preserve Gasoline for up to 10 years, I forget the name of it though.
Diesel has a much longer shelf life than Gasoline. Wood stoves and candles are even better.
Out here that happens every year, sometimes several times ;D
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I've used Sta-Bil for stored gas and never had a problem, but I'm talking 1 to 2 years which I don't really consider LONG term.
Propane doesn't go bad.
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Had a problem with propane in the sub 0 weather. Liquid P doesn't gasify (is that a word?) as easily in the cold!
FWIW
Richard
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On a conference call yesterday, the guy in Seattle was whining about the lack of staff who couldn't get into work because of the big snowstorm. Everyone here in Fargo perked up, and I asked how much they had. The response - 3" - got everyone in the room laughing. Ya see, just Monday, Fargo got 12" of global warming in 8 hours and at that moment it was 8 BELOW ZERO.
Sorry about the whole lack of power thing.
BTTTAH - the best treatment for long-term storage of fuel is a product called PRI-G for gas, or PRI-D for diesel. Pricey stuff - I just picked up a quart of PRI-G and it was $35 shipped. Sta-bil is OK for over-winter storage, but I would not trust long-term to that.
And diesel goes bad too, depending on conditions, due to bacterial growth.
LPG is probably the best overall, especially if you have a 1000 gallon tank of it. Easier on the engine, quieter. You do have to deal with the use of LPG in the cold, though, but there are ways of doing that. I ran my ranches on LPG in minus 20 and minus 30 temps and never had a problem.
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The Sta-Bil label states that it recommends only a 6-month storage...so you might do as I did.
I use to keep 15 gallons of gasoline on hand in 5-gallon plastic cans in my garage, Three cans which I would rotate out one each month.
This was enough to fill the gas tank in my chosen BOV in the event of an emergency Bug Out or for powering a generator long enough until another fuel source could be located.
Problem was that on several occasions I found one or more of my cans empty, being used and not replaced by my kids...and once I even found that someone had mixed an entire five gallon can with 2-Cycle Ams oil. That might of been alright when I was still running my boat motor, chain saw, weed eater and leaf blower. But at the time all I had was the leaf blower and weed eater.
Moral of the story is...If you store gasoline, keep a close eye on it.
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;) In addition to Stabil, I recommend gasoline without Ethenol (no gasohol). It keeps better and does not draw water as bad. Here in Missouri we have 5% alcohol in almost all regular unleaded. Just, recently many stations have began offering alcohol free premium which is great for ATV's, motorcycles and the like.
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Sta-bil was the one I was trying to think of. I don't drive, or have a generator, (second floor studio apartment ) so my info was second hand.
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On a conference call yesterday, the guy in Seattle was whining about the lack of staff who couldn't get into work because of the big snowstorm. Everyone here in Fargo perked up, and I asked how much they had. The response - 3" - got everyone in the room laughing. Ya see, just Monday, Fargo got 12" of global warming in 8 hours and at that moment it was 8 BELOW ZERO.
Well Path to tell you the truth I'd take your 12 over this 4-5 (at my house). Here our cities are not equipped at all to handle this kind of weather. Yesterday so basically 48hrs later they put down a minimal amount of sand on one of our busiest roads by my house.
And on top of all that we dont get the kind of snow you get. We get snow, then it melts, then freezes, then snows again. So there is a layer of Ice below the top layer of wet snow. And 9-10 the roads already are wet from a previous days rain. So literally out side my house we have 2-1/2 inches of ice on the road. It pretty crazy.
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Well Path to tell you the truth I'd take your 12 over this 4-5 (at my house). Here our cities are not equipped at all to handle this kind of weather. Yesterday so basically 48hrs later they put down a minimal amount of sand on one of our busiest roads by my house.
And on top of all that we dont get the kind of snow you get. We get snow, then it melts, then freezes, then snows again. So there is a layer of Ice below the top layer of wet snow. And 9-10 the roads already are wet from a previous days rain. So literally out side my house we have 2-1/2 inches of ice on the road. It pretty crazy.
I have a brother-in-law who moved from northern Iowa to southern Missouri. The first winter there, after the first 2 inch snowfall, which paralyzed his city, he was out clearing his driveway with his big, track-drive John Deere snow-blower when his neighbor came across the street, introduced himself, and said, "Y'all ain't from around here, are ya?"
;D
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Us Yankee's used to laugh when I was at Camp Lejuene NC, first flurry and the Southern boys were in the ditches.
I forget if it was 78 or 79 but they got 3 feet in one storm, They closed the Base for 3 days. The Southern boys were huddled in the barracks, We were jumping off the third floor catwalk into the drifts ;D
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storeing modern gas is very hard to do in the long term. you are better off rotating your stock. now diesel on the other hands can be store for long periods of time.
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I keep all my plastic 5 gallon gas cans full during hurricane season after that I don't replace what I use in yard equipment until the next spring. Anything left from last year is still good and gets used first. When everything is full I have about 32 gallons that is stored in an insulated barn.
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I keep all my plastic 5 gallon gas cans full during hurricane season after that I don't replace what I use in yard equipment until the next spring. Anything left from last year is still good and gets used first. When everything is full I have about 32 gallons that is stored in an insulated barn.
Just don't tell your insurance company or fire marshall. ;D Honestly, I really think propane is the way to go with generators. As for gas? Well a seperate building for storage is a huge plus. I wouldn't fell comfortable keeping much in the garage.
FQ13
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Just don't tell your insurance company or fire marshall. ;D Honestly, I really think propane is the way to go with generators. As for gas? Well a seperate building for storage is a huge plus. I wouldn't fell comfortable keeping much in the garage.
FQ13
As a fireman, full gas cans don't explode, propane bottles do.
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actually no the don't, they rupture. A propane tank can not explode as there is no oxygen in it. It can how ever be heated to the point that the tank ruptures and lets go its flamable contents. Its actually exactly what happens to a gas can in a fire. Just a we bit more dramatic.
;D
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The main difference (as I understand it and I'll defer to the experts) is that gas cans will give off a flammable vapor. Plus plastic cans won't sustain the heat a metal tank will before leaking gas. Neither will explode. Propane tanks blow off a saftey valve and release gas, gas cans ignite (though gasoline vapor will go boom). Bad news in both cases. Still, I feel better with 11 propane tanks than I would with 55 gallons of gas. Am I wrong? Because enquiring quakers would like to know. ;D
FQ13
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Its just a diffrence in presure between a vapor and a liquid, that cuases the rupture.
The propane tanks are more likly to throw shrapel as they rupture at a much higher presure.
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Just an experience I had with Sta-Bil. Back in the 80's when I was living in Illinois I purchased a new Honda lawn mower. The old Toro I had was still in good shape so I spent the afternoon cleaning it all up, changed the oil and spark plug, then filled the tank with fresh gas and a healthy dose of Sta-Bil. I ran it long enough until I could smell the Sta-Bil in the exhaust. I then put it in the basement where it sat for over 6 years. When we were moving to Arizona I brought it out to sell it at a yard sale we were having, and it started on the very first pull! From that point on I've been a firm believer in Sta-Bil. Bill T.
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Us Yankee's used to laugh when I was at Camp Lejuene NC, first flurry and the Southern boys were in the ditches.
I forget if it was 78 or 79 but they got 3 feet in one storm, They closed the Base for 3 days. The Southern boys were huddled in the barracks, We were jumping off the third floor catwalk into the drifts ;D
You don't have to go that far south to find this sort of thing.
Here in CT, they close the schools the day BEFORE the storm...
I've lived in the north for 50 of my 53 years, including one in Iceland where it snows a FOOT an hour and I've never missed a day of work because of snow. If the office or shop was open, I've managed to plow through the crud.
I've also never owned a four wheel drive vehicle. I'm rethinking that because I can't do as much physically as I once could.
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I have a brother-in-law who moved from northern Iowa to southern Missouri. The first winter there, after the first 2 inch snowfall, which paralyzed his city, he was out clearing his driveway with his big, track-drive John Deere snow-blower when his neighbor came across the street, introduced himself, and said, "Y'all ain't from around here, are ya?"
;D
Speaking as one who has lived in Southwest Missouri all his life I have to say....Bull Puckey. We don't say y'all here. We say Youn's.
As for the two inches of snow shutting down the city...well all I can say is that he must not live in Springfield, and that our area in SWMO does seem to draw an enormous amount of Domestic foreigners here due to our lower cost of living andnewer Health care facilities.
Lot's of em retiring here and bringing their bad habits and poor driving skills with them.
Most of us real Hillbilly's laugh at snow, but when the freezing rain and ice starts to hit then it's game on.
If you don't like the Weather in Missouri just wait a few hours... yesterdays weather...we had Thunderstorm warnings which prompted flood warning which gave way to Tornado warnings and now today our temps have dropped and we are under a winter storm advisory with light freezing rain to give way to snow flurries this afternoon.
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Sort of like Texas. It never got that cold, and little snow. BUT.... you did get ice storms. 2" on the road, and I don't care if you are from the upper midwest. You aren't driving in that if you're sane. It was rare, but it was ugly when it happened.
FQ13
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Just don't tell your insurance company or fire marshall. ;D Honestly, I really think propane is the way to go with generators. As for gas? Well a seperate building for storage is a huge plus. I wouldn't fell comfortable keeping much in the garage.
FQ13
Although my manners are not always the best I really don't live in the barn, its a good 50 yards behind the house.
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I store gasoline and diesel in tanks above ground. I use Stabil the in gas and it has worked for me quite well. Personally I believe that propane is the way to go for generators, especially ones that sit unused for long periods of time. Our house generator (remember that off grid living thing) is propane. Propane is liquified at somewhere around 40 below zero. That generator has started up all the way down to 37 below zero. It hasn't gotten any colder than that since we got it, so I don't know how it would be if we hit 50. I do keep a backup generator to the backup generator, and that one is gas. I can tell you trying to get that thing started at 20 below is a major pain, especially when it has been left outside.
-Bidah
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I do keep a backup generator to the backup generator, and that one is gas. I can tell you trying to get that thing started at 20 below is a major pain, especially when it has been left outside. -Bidah
When I lived in Illinois I found a 1,500 watt blow dryer to be a very useful tool in getting engines started in very cold weather. I used it to start my Volkswagen Rabbit Diesel in -15 degree weather. I would use a piece of duct tape to attach it to the air intake portion of the air cleaner, then turn it on for about 3 to 5 minutes. It would warm all of the air in the intake and all I had to do was energize the glow plugs, hit the starter, (with the hair dryer still attached and running), and it would fire right up. It rattled like hell and belched white smoke until she warmed up, but it started.
I also had 2, Honda 250 SX 3 - Wheelers that were a bear to start when it got below 20 degrees. I built a little platform out of 2 X 4's just high enough to level the exhaust of the hair dryer at the cylinder head. I attached it with Zip Ties, plugged it in, let it run for about 3 to 5 minutes, blowing hot air right on the cylinder head at the spark plug, and they would fire right up with full choke and no throttle. My snow blower had a primer along with electric start, so it would fire no matter what. A hair dryer can put heat right where you need it on an engine to help get it started. Now, if you need a generator to run the hair dryer you could resort to a few of those chemical hand warmers they sell to put some heat into that. Bill T.
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One convenient thing about propane powered stuff is that in a dire emergency it can be converted to run on methane.That you can generate on your own.