The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: MikeBjerum on November 26, 2010, 11:07:31 AM
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I am starting this thread before I am ready to respond. I am also starting this in the Cafe to give us a little wiggle room for discussion and repetition ... Ok Rob? Nothing personal, and I appreciate what you do on the others, but I want a little room for this one.
For those that have been into preparedness for years, months, new to it, or looking into it:
What does it cost up front to get into it?
How much do you invest in a month's food and other supplies?
How much do you invest in water storage and purification items?
How much do you invest in first aid supplies?
How much do you invest in "bug out" items that would be emergency survival gear for the quick run or if you get stranded (shelter, first aid, day or two of high energy, rope, compass, cooking equip., etc.)?
What training or study do you do to prepare (first aid, survival, etc.), and how much do you spend?
For those that are well into this or ready to share, photos would be welcome as well!
I have never done this in an organized manor, and I have been working on it over the last month. I am keeping a journal of my written plans, rationalization, costs, inventories, and how it is going. First two realizations - 1. It does not cost as much as I thought (virtually nothing when you realize this is mostly stock up items that will be used and replaced weekly), and how much room it takes.
At this point I will not share my own experiences, but would love to hear yours. I think we can all learn from each other. I hope to filter through the postings to draw a picture of "the average," put pricing, time and space investment, and rationale to it all.
This is a selfish request and thread for my own improvement, but I hope it helps us all as much as I hope it helps me.
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You should know we or I will not put this on the web.
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The food I would guess a few hundred.
medical is well into the hundreds, but then again we most likly have stuff that the average person would not.
water storeage is many thousands.( what can I say I keep fish)
no bug out kit, but we do have a 72 hour kit and tent right out side the garage door. It wasn not that much, maybe 200 total for the kit and the tent.
Training, I have my CPR card, defib cert, egale scout, long time hunter, backpacker and etc...couple hundred every few years. Medical school for my wife, ~600k plus what ever on the job training, its got to be pretty close to 1 mil.
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I costs nothing at first, maybe a little time. Then you can prep parts of your needs very frugally and economically.
First step - the free one - is to assess your risks. List them all, remembering that risk is a 2-part assessment: likelihood and impact. In other words, how likely is something to happen, and then how bad will it be it it does. A meteor striking the Earth ala the dinosaur extinction is pretty damn bad, but not that likely. Floods, hurricanes/tornadoes, winter storms, disease epidemic, train derailments, etc. all need to be considered based on where you live.
Example: I live 1/4 miles from a train track - one of BNSF's mainline double-tracks in fact. So a train derailment is more likely than if you lived 40 miles from the nearest track. However, it is a straight line track through here, so a derailment is reduced in likelihood slightly. In any event, a derailment is a guaranteed bug-out, so you need to prep for that risk.
A winter storm up north here is very likely, as is the loss of power. Our town just had all of the lines put below ground, however the feeder lines are still above ground. So having a heat source, food and water inside is another way to prep.
For prepping food or other provisions, here is a simple and inexpensive way to do it. When you buy something on sale or with a coupon (or best yet, on sale AND with a coupon), buy extra. For example, your meal plan calls for consumption of 2 cans of green beans this week. So you buy 3, or 4 even, and put the extras on the shelf - after writing the month/year purchased on it. Or when they hit 40 cents a can on a "truckload special" - buy a case if you can. In this way, very quickly, you will have a healthy larder built up of foods you normally eat. Turkeys were 55 cents a pound, so I bought 2 this year - one will be cooked and canned for future consumption.
The adage is to prep what you eat and eat what you prep. Do not store 20# of sauerkraut because it was on special if you don't eat sauerkraut.And eat through your preps always replenishing them - plus a little extra as above. Keeps them fresher.
Another adage is "Beans, Bullets and Band-Aids" - the major priorities - except for water.
Check out Jim Rawles' "Rawles gets you ready" course (http://www.readyfortheworst.com/ (http://www.readyfortheworst.com/)) for details on what he recommends.
Or call me next time you're headed for Fargo/Moorhead, and we'll dine and talk in detail. I will tell you one detail - I picked up the cubical-shaped 7-gallon water containers from Mills when they were on sale for $8-9 instead of the $13 or so normally. Heavier than sin when full, but 7 gallons of treated water right there, waiting.
BTW - I prepped even when I was laid off and on unemployment. If you budget right, you can do it on minimal income.
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I don't think this is "classified". But I can provide a general and personal amount of info. off the top of my head.
How much do you invest in a month's food and other supplies?
How much do you invest in water storage and purification items?
How much do you invest in first aid supplies?
How much do you invest in "bug out" items that would be emergency survival gear for the quick run or if you get stranded (shelter, first aid, day or two of high energy, rope, compass, cooking equip., etc.)?
What training or study do you do to prepare (first aid, survival, etc.), and how much do you spend?
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I look at two critical phases of preparedness. (South Florida, Cat 5. storms, tsunami off the Canary Islands, EMP, terrorist attack, civil unrest, etc,....)
My kits cover both, but have two plans incorporated.
1) Am I Staying In My Home?
2) Do I Have To Bug Out Pronto?
How much do you invest in a month's food and other supplies?
Simple grocery shopping. Buy one get one, sale items, clearance, discounted items.. Canned Goods, Dry Goods, are #1 for that. Roughly, buying 2 or 4 instead of 1. Easily loaded, or stored. It's just me and my wife, so,....not much money over time, gives me plenty.
How much do you invest in water storage and purification items?
Always have gallon jugs of water, we don't drink tap. Roughly 25 gallons in the pantry, .99 cents a piece, rotated and replenished.
I have Cheaper Than Dirt, purification tablets, filters, solar water heaters (hanging camping type), ball park $25-30 bucks. I have an in ground pool, 18,500 gallons. Salt/Chlorine Generator, it can be boiled, also keeps the commodes working.
How much do you invest in first aid supplies?
Work van furnished with a standard kit, My own mobile med kit from Sportsman Guide, is pretty good. $65.00
Plus my wife is nurse, and keeps a supply of Aspirin, Tylenol, and "stronger stuff" if needed.
How much do you invest in "bug out" items that would be emergency survival gear for the quick run or if you get stranded (shelter, first aid, day or two of high energy, rope, compass, cooking equip., etc.)?
If I go, and I can use my truck, it can be loaded for "bear", in less than 30 minutes. Pets and all, and I'll be good for a month.
It will suck, but the second part of the question is: "What if vehicles are useless?" For me, I get to a boat, even a damn sail boat, load up and go. Depends on the particulars...
What training or study do you do to prepare (first aid, survival, etc.), and how much do you spend?
Foxfire, backwoodshome.com, my own camping, hiking, trail, canoeing treks, etc,...and yes, being a former Boy Scout, plus reading surplus military literature, and others. Hard to put a $$$ amount on, but I've always been a bit of a McGyver type...
This m58, was just off the top of my head, I could get model#'s, and receipts, but those that are here at DRTV, have there own needs, geography, family members, environment, etc,...We should all have a "plan". If I have to hold up in my house for a month with no power, I can make it anytime. I keep propane tanks for my grill, enough food, ammo, etc,...Fuel for my Genset and Inverter power for non-critical loads.
It is important to always be able to boil water. Even for sponge baths, making drinking water, cooking, etc,....
You should know we or I will not put this on the web.
Why??? You, hopefully and wisely spent some money on extra Pork & Beans (whatever), Dry Goods, got some extra fuel, stockpile ammo, water, and have a plan if something happens. THAT separates 99.99% of us that would have never went to the SuperDome in New Orleans. If my off my head post generates ideas, tips, other points of view, that can ensure the survivability of my family if the SHTF, good. We all benefit.
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If you have one of Crusaders "Thanksgiving Mega Feasts" you'll be good for at least a month! Bill T.
http://www.downrange.tv/forum/index.php?topic=14707.0
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If you have one of Crusaders "Thanksgiving Mega Feasts" you'll be good for at least a month! Bill T.
http://www.downrange.tv/forum/index.php?topic=14707.0
LOL ;D
The biggest expenses I had were $100 for a good back pack, and around $50 for a hand forged camp ax with a 2 ft handle, the only other thing I paid over $10 for was a sleeping bag that stays with the bug out pack.
My first aid skills are very basic so all I really needed was bandage material, ( Gauze and tape, plus bandaides for little stuff) antibiotic cream and aspirin, now that I'm on medications I get the 90 day supply from Wal Mart at about $12/ med, but those, like food, are things I will be using any way. I just buy a little extra and rotate the stock.
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LOL ;D The biggest expenses I had were around $50 for a hand forged camp ax with a 2 ft handle.
I just picked up a nice M-9 Bayonet from Bud K for $50. Every AR needs a good bayonet. Bill T.
http://budk.com/Knives/M9-Bayonet-Military-Knife
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Not much use for splitting fire wood though ;D
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.......
How much do you invest in a month's food and other supplies?
How much do you invest in water storage and purification items?
How much do you invest in first aid supplies?
How much do you invest in "bug out" items that would be emergency survival gear for the quick run or if you get stranded (shelter, first aid, day or two of high energy, rope, compass, cooking equip., etc.)?
What training or study do you do to prepare (first aid, survival, etc.), and how much do you spend?
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Make each question a poll question. Give it a number of responses. For instance, "How much do you invest in a month's food and other supplies?" Give it answers like ten bucks, twenty bucks, thirty bucks, etc. You'll be protecting the "innocent" and get a better profile if you give it a some thoughtful structured answers.....
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Might want to check out this site. Could find some good ideas and info there.
http://surviveinplace.com/
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Rastus,
I could go the poll route if this doesn't work. However, I don't think I'm asking anything that would make the black birds hover, and I am really trying to use open ended questions to allow people to give their opinions and specialties.
Sous,
My hope is to hear from those actually doing it, rather than one expert's opinion. I may be reinventing the wheel in terms of research, but that is how we find changing views.
Also, I know that sometimes sharing amongst friends helps everyone either get the ball moving that they have been intending, or catch a glitch in their system that they hadn't noticed.
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In perishable supplies I (for myself alone ) spend about 10% more than I really need on things like Groceries, meds are nothing extra as I'll be taking them anyway .
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We have bug out kits for all family members, cost mainly just the bag. First aid is kept in a plastic tote that we use out of and replace as needed, cost maybe 30 to 50 bucks total. Well stocked pantry, about 100 bucks. Water storage is gal. jugs @ 1.00 each. Water purifacation pump was 50 bucks. Tent we had for awhile. Training, my wife and I are both first responders so its free. Also our situation is a little different, We are both first line responders to natural or manmade disasters. If it is a evacuation type emergency we have an EOC that we will go to and work out of. But we also have our bug outs if we need to get out of dodge.
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If you are planning to "bug in" preparedness is almost free. Where I live, in Hurricane country, preparedness is an annual event. I can't bug out, minus an ocean going boat, as the roads will be clogged. So the bugout bag is just a backpack with 5 days food, a camp stove, tent, water filter, bag and raingear and weapons and money (hidden). The extreme "bug out" is the extended camping trip in the Glades. There, its what I can fit in a canoe.
Real life? I prep for 30 days cut off. This is easy and cheap. A good first aid kit (bought piece meal, not off the shelf, figure $150)'
Food, as others have said, buy stuff you'll eat anyway. Rice, beans, diced tomatoes, corn, kippers, no-refrig bacon, just add water pancake mix, and ramen etc.. If you don't use it? Donate it at Thanksgiving and and restock. It really doesn't cost much. No pricy MREs. Just buy 4 rather than one and keep the larder up.
Same deal with water. The rule is one gallon per man, per day. I keep thirty gallons of water bottles and rotate as I drink. Its not much of an extra cost.
As far as flushing? Buy 5 5 gallon buckets, $.75 each at the dollar store. I live on a golf course and have a pond in the back yard. No problem.
I bought a bunch of battery lanterns and a ton of flashlights (figure $150 if you're not a light nerd, and less is easy). Every two years I hit Sams and buy a bunch of Duracells (maybe $150).
As far as cooking? I've got a Weber and a campstove. I use them anyway. Cost? $0.
My only luxury is a Honda propane generator and 11 bottles of gas. That's about $2000 and will get me through two to three weeks. I've also got the gas to use on the grill. So discount that by the propane bill.
Basically, I'm good in my house for a month. I really am out very little money per year, as most of what I buy, minus the generator and batteries, and stuff like ramen and instant mashed potatoes, gets used anyway.
The bugout gear and first aid kit are a different story. But, if you are like me and plan on hunkering down for lack of a better option; staying warm, dry, and fed needn't be all that daunting. If you have to move? Well, that's a whole different game. I can talk about it, but here in South Florida, unless you've got a boat, demographics and geography are against you. :-\
FQ13
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A rather obvious comment, but some one mentioned buying plastic jugs to store water.
Go green ;D rinsing and reusing milk jugs saves money and keeps them out of the land fill.
Not to mention the ones you do not use for water are useful for other non survival purposes such as mixing paint, making Ice blocks for the cooler (they keep the beer cold much longer than cubes, and are more convenient than full size blocks) or various craft projects
FQ, be real careful with that pond water, while you may get away with drinking untreated water from a fast moving stream, standing water MUST be treated, especially if it is popular with wild life such as ducks.
If you plan on "Bugging in" you can, as FQ points out, do it fairly comfortably, if you intend to travel to a safer location do not plan on taking more than your party can carry on their backs. Vehicles don't run when they have no fuel, whether it's because Stations ran out, or the lack of electricity means pumps aren't working. The first traffic jam you run into, all those supplies in your vehicle turn you into a target just like a Spanish treasure galleon, you are better off being able to, if needed, and with out regret, abandoning the vehicle and continuing on foot
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Its not the ducks I'm worried about Tom. Its the pesticides and herbicides that go into a golf course. The enviromentalists are right when they cal golf courses "green desserts".I've got a great water purifier. It will take out any bacteria on earth (MSR miniworks ceramic, about $80 and mil issue). It won't do crap for chemicals. Neither will the iodine I add for viruses. I won't eat the fish or drink the water unless its that or nothing. Its just for flushing and bathing.
FQ13
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+1 on the milk jugs for water, PLUS, if one has a deep freezer, or large freezer, freeze some gallon jugs of water. If the power goes down, they make great ice packs, for other perishables, and when they melt, is totally usable.
It's a shame, as FQ pointed out, the canals and waterways, here in S. Florida, I won't eat from either. The Bass, Brim, Perch, Catfish, have ingested everything and anything that is in "runoff".....
Never was a super catch and release angler, but now?????? Take a picture, and throw back....Unless it's a snake-head.....than you kill them and throw back...
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+1 on the milk jugs for water, PLUS, if one has a deep freezer, or large freezer, freeze some gallon jugs of water. If the power goes down, they make great ice packs, for other perishables, and when they melt, is totally usable.
It's a shame, as FQ pointed out, the canals and waterways, here in S. Florida, I won't eat from either. The Bass, Brim, Perch, Catfish, have ingested everything and anything that is in "runoff".....
Never was a super catch and release angler, but now?????? Take a picture, and throw back....Unless it's a snake-head.....than you kill them and throw back...
I think you better explain that TW.
The only "Snakeheads" I ever heard of belonged to an Asian gang by that name.
If they are in the canal chances are they are already dead ::)
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Snakeheads are an Asian fish that was illegally imported and subsequently released into North American waterways. Like the Russian Boar, they've taken up residence all over the US and are breeding faster than rabbits or rats or "insert your scourge here!" animals.
Nasty, mean, voracious and very, very dangerous species that will be nearly impossible to get rid of. If them make their way into the Great lakes, there is nothing to stop them from destroying that ecosystem.
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I am a stone's throw from University Dr. and Riverside....
These snakeheads, get a flat head screwdriver, or Ka-Bar to the head. Barracuda got nuthin' on these bastards. Florida Wildlife Officers, give absolute green lights, to kill these foreign fish.
Featured on the TV show River Monsters, they are bad news to our local waterways.
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Back in the 70's didn't they have some type of plant infestation in Florida that took over a lot of the canals down there? I think it came from southern Europe somewhere. I read it cost millions to get rid of. Bill T.
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Back in the 70's didn't they have some type of plant infestation in Florida that took over a lot of the canals down there? I think it came from southern Europe somewhere. I read it cost millions to get rid of. Bill T.
Similar to kudzo in the south east....it just infests and chokes the natural trees, shrubs around it.
Some swear you can eat the stuff, but no way for me.....I'll take my Dinty Moore over snakeheads and kudzo any day...