The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Handguns => Topic started by: scrappy45601 on November 26, 2010, 10:16:14 PM
-
Have you guys seen this yet? Im impressed with the looks and design, and i think other manufacturers should do the same with the long and short mags. Tell me what you all think. I know ill get one as soon as the are available. (yes i am gonna drink the cool aid) here is the link http://www.the-m-factor.com/CompactInfo.pdf
-
I put our first one on display at the shop today. It is the 3.8 inch XDM with a shorter grip. It comes with one short and one full size magazine just like the 3 inch XD. We have it at the same price as all of the XDM's.
-
watchman can you tell me if the grip size is close to the regular xd subcompact when using the short mag?
-
Been waiting to see if they were going to put out something like this for a looooooong time. Might have to get me one. I like the M sights better than those on the XD. I have tried the G26, the M&P SC and the XD9 SC and was leaning heavily toward the XD9SC.
Richard
-
I've never been a fan of the Springfield XD pistol. This is not meant as a slam to the firearm itself, or anyone who owns or prefers it, but rather an in depth look at how the pistol came about. The modern Springfield Armory XD pistol and it's derivatives, are all spin offs of the HS-2000 which was originally designed by Marko Vukovic and produced by I.M. Metals. The gun originally sold for $250.00 most everywhere, and no one wanted it. The gun was what it was, a cheaply made, imported semi auto that used a lot of MIM parts in it's manufacture, which was one of the main reasons they were able to keep it's cost down.
Then Springfield Armory came along and got involved, purchased the rights to manufacture it, jacked up the price $200.00+ dollars to help pay for the multi million dollar advertising blitz that ensued, tossed in $5 worth of cheap, molded plastic "Gear", and the Springfield XD was born. Sales took off, and the rest is history. It soon became the greatest thing to come down the pike since Monday Night Football. Springfield wanted a piece of the market Glock pretty much had the franchise on, and they didn't feel like trying to design a gun from scratch to do it. So they bought the rights to the HS-2000. Not a bad idea from a marketing standpoint if you think about it.
The funny thing is Smith & Wesson had a chance to do exactly what Springfield did from I.M. Metals, but balked on the idea. Ever since then they've been breaking their backs to come up with their own design to compete. Thus far the Sigma with it’s design issues, as well as the M&P with all of it’s slide rusting issues, have proven to be more problematic than profitable.
When the Glock pistol came out in the early 80's, it was scoffed at for the most part. No one really took it seriously, and thought it would last about as long as Madonna. ("Like A Virgin" was at the top of the charts at the time). It did, just not the way most had envisioned. By the time the design took off every gun manufacturer in the country was scurrying to get something on the market to compete. Many of the guns back then were really bad designs that were problem plagued and didn't survive in the marketplace very long. The Springfield XD did, not because of it's design, but rather in spite of it. The Springfield XD pistol has proven how well mass marketing of a given product can work. If you think about it, all it really lacked at the time was Billy Mays trying to sell it on a 1:00 AM Infomercial.
While over the years they have improved it somewhat, it is still based on the original Vukovic / I.M. Metals / HS-2000 design, much like most all 1911's made today are nothing more than copies of John M. Browning's design. The difference is Browning's design was based on gun making genius, rather than nothing more than a fancy ad campaign of a cheaply made gun. In this regard Marko Vukovic, while having designed a very profitable firearm, has a long way to go to catch Mr. Browning. Bill T.
-
watchman can you tell me if the grip size is close to the regular xd subcompact when using the short mag?
It felt the same but I didn't take measurements. I don't work until next Tuesday. I'll do a side-by-side comparison if it is still on the shelf.
-
It is my understanding that Springfield now owns the XD factory and employs all the workers.
-
It is my understanding that Springfield now owns the XD factory and employs all the workers.
I've heard this as well, however I have not seen anything that really substantiates it. Even if it were true it doesn't change the fact that Springfield will not sell XD parts to the public or gunsmiths. If you own an XD and it goes down, you are forced to send it in for warranty work. This usually means weeks without your gun, which could have been fixed in hours, if not minutes if the parts were avaliable.
A modern Glock pistol on the other hand has about 34 parts total. Every one of them is avaliable for purchase either on line through literally hundreds of firearms supply outlets, or in most well stocked gun shops. This means in the rare occurrence should a Glock ever go down for whatever reason, it can be up and running again in very short order with a minimum of cost and inconvenience. For someone who is heavily into IDPA, or any other type of competitive shooting this is paramount. A gun that won't run is of no use to anyone. Bill T.
-
billt, as long as the repair is on SA's nickle I don't mind since I have other guns.
Richard
-
Thanks Billt, you put it in a nut a nut shell. A lot of history, and truth. The sad thing is, innovation is hard, marketing is easy. They both cost about the same though. :P
Kool aide aside, Glock came up with something new. Few have tried to beat them at their own game (here I'm thinking H@K, and SIG, not sure about the results though). The rest? Well, I don't carry them. Still, if you were to offer me any semi-auto pistol on the market for a gunfight I couldn't avoid: free, gratis. I'd grab a Glock. I'd also understand those who went went 1911 or Hi-Power. But the rest? WTF? I say buy whatever works for you, but in some very real sense, there are two ways to go. Gaston Glock or John Moses Browning. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. Dissenting opinions welcomed.
FQ13
-
I've heard this as well, however I have not seen anything that really substantiates it. Even if it were true it doesn't change the fact that Springfield will not sell XD parts to the public or gunsmiths. If you own an XD and it goes down, you are forced to send it in for warranty work. This usually means weeks without your gun, which could have been fixed in hours, if not minutes if the parts were available.
A modern Glock pistol on the other hand has about 34 parts total. Every one of them is available for purchase either on line through literally hundreds of firearms supply outlets, or in most well stocked gun shops. This means in the rare occurrence should a Glock ever go down for whatever reason, it can be up and running again in very short order with a minimum of cost and inconvenience. For someone who is heavily into IDPA, or any other type of competitive shooting this is paramount. A gun that won't run is of no use to anyone. Bill T.
The Gunsmith at my shop will work on the XD & XDM for minor issues. However, if it is a major issue, one should send it back to Springfield. Also, he can get Springfield parts for things like trigger work. However, there are third party solutions out there that you can get better parts than Springfield like Powder River. Our smith has done done several Powder River trigger kits and the results are fantastic and cheaper than Springfield. Of course, Glock leads with aftermarket stuff.
As far as the XD factory, I underplayed my source. Our Springfield rep provided the information.
-
Can someone explain to me why every time a polymer gun is mentioned people always start talking about glocks. Sure glocks were innovative when they first came out, but so was everything else at one point or another. ???
-
Between Pistol Gear, XDguys, Springer Precision and Powder River to name a few, someone who is serious about having spare parts does have options for oem parts, or aftermarket upgrades that address possible weak points (striker spring guide, striker retaining pin). In many cases even if the pin breaks, the pistol will still function, but might as well upgrade the parts.
I would recommend anybody who owns an xd to get a set of PRP enhanced striker retaining pins.
I don't own an xd, but have been able to shoot hundreds of rounds through my brother's and other friends guns. I have never personally witnessed one break or malfunction in any way other than a guy who's grip stopped the slide from locking back when empty. Changed his grip a bit and was good to go. My brothers pistol has been shot in very poor weather, as fast as we could keep mags loaded, his gun has never had a hickup of any kind.
Just from my limited personal experience the XD is very reliable and robust, with the possible exception beeing the striker retaining pin. With this one part changed out, I would trust it as much as a Glock.......Just my 2cents.
-
Can someone explain to me why every time a polymer gun is mentioned people always start talking about glocks.
Simply because it's the best selling polymer gun in the world, period. It is the standard all others in it's class are judged by, like it or not. It will most likely remain that way for decades to come. Bill T.
-
Im not against glock. It just cracks me up about always comparing it with other things. Just like the old adage _____ is the cadillac of _____.
-
In essence scrappy, Glock raised the bar. Which in the evolution of firearms is a good thing. No other pistol has been tortured, punished, tested, abused, kicked and run over, thrown out of airplanes, thrown in the ocean, buckets of sand, mud, dirt, and still worked long after others failed.
I'm not a Glock fan, but I own one, the grip on my G21 is too wide and fat for me, I often refer to it as a railroad tie with a grip, but it matters not, because it goes bang, with whatever ammo; every time.
It's too damn big to carry concealed here in the swamps of S. Florida, but it is what it is, and will be a goto pistol when/if needed.
For that standard, the other manufacturers had to play catch up. I also trust/love my M+P 40. FN9, it made the others wake up. Which is a good thing, it made the others say "Oh, sh**"...The XD platform, is reliable, and some folk swear by them. I don;t like the grip angle, and texture, and it's even uglier than a Glock, ;) It's still a great pistol.
+1 on billt's post. Glock has withstood all the abuse and critiques. Fortunately, other gunmakers expanded on on it, and there are more great reliable pistols out there.
P.S. I Love my M+P. ;D
-
I've got to say I always considered myself a huge Glock guy. I've been carrying them for work, personal protection and play for over 20 years now. I scoffed at the XD's when they came out having had the opportunity to carry a HS-2000 for a time while in the Adriatic region. It wasn't the worst pistol I've even carried but it was far from the best. I never even looked at another polymer pistol other than a few times that I was issued a HK that was fine but still no Glock in my eyes. Fast forward to a few months ago when I got a new in the box XDm 9mm in a trade. My initial plan was to flip it quickly but when I got it out of the box and put the large backstrap on it I decided it felt at least good enough to give it a shot at the range. Well the first trip to the range it/I outshot anything I've ever done with a 9mm Glock including Glocks with hundreds of dollars in aftermarket work to them. Now the trigger was no where as good as any of my Glocks and I still haven't gotten it there. I can't work on them like I can with Glocks, haven't learned them yet. Still it was impressive enough that I went from owning 5 Glocks in 9mm to now having only 1, my first 17. I was looking at picking up a XDm 3.8 before the end of the year but now will probably do the compact instead. I've tried the XD/XDm .45's and they're ok but not good enough to make me give up my Glock 21's & 30's but when it comes to 9mm poly pistols I'm a total XDm convert, they are nothing like the HS-2000 I carried many years ago.
-
It felt the same but I didn't take measurements. I don't work until next Tuesday. I'll do a side-by-side comparison if it is still on the shelf.
I did the side-by-side comparison and the XD sub-compact grip and the XDM compact grip are virtually identical. I didn't take measurements so there may be a mm or two difference but that would be it.
-
thank you watchman i appreciate the info
-
Well i went to local fun store and saw an xdm compact they had. It felt nice in the hands, but then i saw the price tag.
$650 :o I guess i will wait a little while till the price comes down.
-
Well i went to local fun store and saw an xdm compact they had. It felt nice in the hands, but then i saw the price tag.
$650 :o I guess i will wait a little while till the price comes down.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=206899824
Just eyeballed this one at a shop near me. Looks like the price is going up, not down. Hard to believe Springfield is chasing after H&K in the price wars. Bill T.
-
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=206899824
Just eyeballed this one at a shop near me. Looks like the price is going up, not down. Hard to believe Springfield is chasing after H&K in the price wars. Bill T.
Meanwhile, M+P's, FN's, CZ's, EAA's, and the "G" guns are outselling them. HK's pride and joy are military contracts, that's a fat cushion, for their retail sales.
If the price of XD's stays $600+/-, than others will opt for Sigs, and the others. It won't be enough to keep up with HK's, and volume sales will go to other manufacturers.
Capitalism. What a concept. Not selling enough? Lower the damn price....
-
I decided a to go a different route. I ended up putting a sr9c in layaway(thank you extra xmas money). I dont think for 425 for it is a bad deal. same idea as the xdm with one high and one reg cap mag.
-
I decided a to go a different route. I ended up putting a sr9c in layaway(thank you extra xmas money). I dont think for 425 for it is a bad deal. same idea as the xdm with one high and one reg Full and one reduced cap mag.
Fixed it for you.
-
well at least i didnt call it a clip lol ;D
-
;D
-
Good choice scrappy, and a helluva belly button avatar... ::)
I meant to include the SR series Ruger. I was "" this close to getting the SR9c, and still might.
Happy New Year. The gun is solid. Good Call.
-
The wife and I shot the Ruger SR9c last fall at a locale gun club. What can I say, we both fell in love with the way it shot and handed. Looks like she gets the first one as I ordered her one for he birthday in two weeks. I'm hoping she will let me shoot it as I just loaded up a thousand rounds of 9mm for it.
-
Just thought I'd weight in. I like my XD9 and XD40. I like the way the feel in my hand and point. I like the fact that the magazines are dimensionally identical and can be interchanged. Only the witness holes are different. I like the take down much better than the Glock OR Walther P99. The frames are even the same. I take my XD40 to matches so I can swap parts in the event of some failure. I like the better supported case head and the true rifling.
Since production is scored minor, I don't really have a reason to keep my XD40, long term. However, I can't imagine going to a major match (state, regional) without some form of backup. If I want to make a real "go" at competitive shooting, then I'd probably trade the XD40 for a second XD9, as well as purchase some spare parts.
-
the xd series of pistol is good. I had an xd 45 gap, but ammo was kinda hard to find so i traded it off.
-
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=206899824
Just eyeballed this one at a shop near me. Looks like the price is going up, not down. Hard to believe Springfield is chasing after H&K in the price wars. Bill T.
Gunbroker prices are so subjective though, for every high price you find there's a low to match it. I bought one from these guys and had it the next day with no sales tax and a $25 transfer. They continually list at this price: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=210021335 (http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=210021335)
-
The shop I work at all black XDm's (all sizes & all calibers) are $639. All bi-tone XDm's are $699.