The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: Texas_Bryan on December 07, 2010, 06:20:34 PM
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Team,
I'm working on a project, independent video game, and I need your help. Specifically, who painted this? I can't read the signature for nothing.
(http://research.surnames.com/images/civil_war_soldiers.jpg)
The project is about the Civil War, sort of, and if you have any awesome resources on the times throw them up here. Been researching into the economic and corruption of power that led to the war, and its some pretty interesting history.
-Bryan
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Mort Kunstler comes to mind, but that's not his signature.
Can't place it.....may I saw it at a Stuckey's somewhere.
I'll keep searching. I love a good mystery.
Oh. BTW. There never was a "civil" war as the circumstances do not match the definition of such. What we had was a war between the states. Or as many here call it, The War of Norther Aggression.
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Mort Kunstler comes to mind, but that's not his signature.
Can't place it.....may I saw it at a Stuckey's somewhere.
I'll keep searching. I love a good mystery.
Oh. BTW. There never was a "civil" war as the circumstances do not match the definition of such. What we had was a war between the states. Or as many here call it, The War of Norther Aggression.
Indeed, I also refer to the conflict as the 'War of Northern Aggression', but 'Civil War' proves to be more convenient at times. it was a war between to sovereign nations, and as I've researched the issue, even the most slanted Union accounts, its clear that the United States was beyond unjustified in starting this conflict. And believe me, I intend to represent that fact.
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Uh, TB, there is a signature in the lower right. Blow the picture up and you should be able to get the name.
Another long-shot possibility is Dan Troiani, but the signature doesn't even come close.
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Very widely used picture on the net. However, no one gives credit to the owner. You might check with this Facebook page. They may know where it came from. http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=48586300732#!/group.php?gid=48586300732&v=info (http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=48586300732#!/group.php?gid=48586300732&v=info)
I've searched for artist "catte" and "calle" but to no avail.
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Chris Calle.
He's also done a lot of stamps for the USPS.
I couldn't find this exact painting, but the folks at the link might be able to help. There is onother one of his on their page.
http://www.knottywood-treasures.com/id19.html
http://www.callespaceart.com/Home.html
http://www.artcadeonline.com/recent-acquisitions/detail.aspx?id=1342
http://www.artworkoriginals.com/EB5SB7E0.htm
EDIT:
I found it in a collection of his after I wrote the above...The title of the painting you posted is Gettysburg.
http://www.millpondlicensing.com/search_5.asp?s_artist2=6
http://www.unicover.com/EF4UHZ1W.htm
http://www.hobbyplace.com/needlecrafts/america1.php
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They may have already used that painting in the game "Civil War Generals II" from Firefly studio's.
I've got the game and if it isn't that picture it is darn close.
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Fantastic, thanks a bunch guys.
Tom, that's cool, I don't intend on using the actual picture. I'll be painting it again using my game's theme, I just really want to make sure I can give credit where its due.
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If you're looking for the "why's" of the war, read Taney's majority opinion in Scott v. Sanford. Its 76 pages of the worst example of judicial activism (and bad history) in the history of the Court. Basically, in an attempt to make the slavery issue go away, Taney made the war inevitable by effectively nationalizing slavery. No longer could it be dealt ith by political means (states making their own laws, squatter soveriegnty, or Congressional action), it was now a Constitutional right protected by the 5A. What he didn't get was that this scared the crap out of the Northern white working class. Consider it outsourcing in the extreme. Northern blue collar whites never really cared for African Americans (they still don't). However, Dredd Scott made it legal to essentially buy a bunch of slaves in Virginia, bring them to New York and put them to work in a factory. This did not go over well, and led to Lincoln's election. Its not a story told in the history books as much as it should be, but the war was as much about class politics as it was race or tarrifs or any of the rest of it. I'll post more if you want, but Taney (and the other 7 cononcurring and dissenting opinions ::) :P) in that particular fiasco are worth a read. Good luck with the project.
FQ13
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With out political meddling the slavery issue would have died a quite death within another 25-50 years.
Industrialization was already making it economically impractical in the South where the feared black masses were being replaced by machinery, while the Northern needs for labor were not being met even with the huge influx of immagration from Ireland and other parts of Europe.
The true blame for the war though lie's with the Founding Father's for not having the moral or political courage to follow their grand idea's to their logical conclusion, and instead, caving in to the special interests of the Southern moneyed class.
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With out political meddling the slavery issue would have died a quite death within another 25-50 years.
Industrialization was already making it economically impractical in the South where the feared black masses were being replaced by machinery, while the Northern needs for labor were not being met even with the huge influx of immagration from Ireland and other parts of Europe.
The true blame for the war though lie's with the Founding Father's for not having the moral or political courage to follow their grand idea's to their logical conclusion, and instead, caving in to the special interests of the Southern moneyed class.
Indeed, but slavery is far too convenient an answer to the cause of the war. I've done quite a bit of research and see it all boil down to economics, and power. Some where worried they would loose one and then the other, and when they struck out on their own, the other did loose them both and sought to reclaim them.
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The actual reason Lincoln called up the Volunteers was to "Put down the Rebellion".
The Confederacy however, was well with in Jefferson's interpretation of the Constitution when they seceded based on what they viewed as Federal usurpation of Right's reserved solely to the states. In fact, Jefferson wrote an act named Kentucky and Virginia Resolutions,(political statements drafted in 1798 and 1799, in which the Kentucky and Virginia legislatures resolved to not abide by Alien and Sedition Acts. They argued that the Acts were unconstitutional and therefore void, and in doing so, they argued for states' rights and strict constructionism of the Constitution. They were written secretly by Vice President Thomas Jefferson and James Madison, respectively.
The principles behind the resolutions became known as the "Principles of '98". Adherents argue that the individual states can judge the constitutionality of central government laws and decrees, and can refuse to enforce laws deemed unconstitutional. Such refusal was called nullification in the Kentucky Resolutions of 1798, while the Virginia Resolutions of 1798 refer to "interposition" to express the idea of the states’ right to "interpose" between the federal government and the people of the state.
The Resolutions have been controversial since their passage, first eliciting disapproval from seven state legislatures. In the years leading up the to the Nullification Crisis, the resolutions divided Jefferson democrats, with states' rights proponents such as John C. Calhoun supporting the Principles of '98 and President Andrew Jackson opposing them. Years later, the passage of the Fugitive Slave Act of 1850 led anti-slavery activists to quote the Resolutions to support their calls on Northern states to nullify what they considered unconstitutional enforcement of the law.[1]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kentucky_and_Virginia_Resolutions
In 1862 or 3 Congress held hearings to decide on a simple explanations to explain what they were fighting about, since they could not say "We are fighting to twist the meaning of the Constitution" they decided to go with the excuse of "Freeing the slaves". However, morality aside the Emancipation Proclamation was an egregious violation of the Constitutions protection of "Life, Liberty, and property in that it deprived individuals in rebel states of legally acquired property with out compensation. It is interesting to note that slavery was not outlawed in non Rebel states until the passage of the 14th amendment in 1868.
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Indeed, Emancipation was nothing more to Unioners than a tool to fight the war with and give themselves some type of self serving moral superiority. The Union couldn't have given a toss about blacks during the war, they only sought to undermine the Confederacy. And to those that wish to put the Union on moral high need only look at reconstruction, when the government abandon any image of caring for newly freed slaves.
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Indeed, Emancipation was nothing more to Unioners than a tool to fight the war with and give themselves some type of self serving moral superiority. The Union couldn't have given a toss about blacks during the war, they only sought to undermine the Confederacy. And to those that wish to put the Union on moral high need only look at reconstruction, when the government abandon any image of caring for newly freed slaves.
As well as segregated military units.
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Had the Union not defeated the South North America would now be nothing but another "Post Colonial" backwater.
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Had the Union not defeated the South North America would now be nothing but another "Post Colonial" backwater.
Saying that, does 'North America' refer to the continent or the Northern States?
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Saying that, does 'North America' refer to the continent or the Northern States?
The Continental grouping that renounced English rule.
Canada never really amounted to anything anyway eh. ;D
The Southern states did not have the industrial base to become any kind of world power, while the Northern states did have the industry their energy would have been sapped by constant friction, and competition with the South, almost certianly including further wars.
The enduring animosity would have led to alliances with opposing European factions that would have brought Europes wars to this continent just as it did Africa and the Middle East/Arabia.
Such a situation could very well have altered the outcomes of both World Wars and the Cold War.
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The Continental grouping that renounced English rule.
Canada never really amounted to anything anyway eh. ;D
The Southern states did not have the industrial base to become any kind of world power, while the Northern states did have the industry their energy would have been sapped by constant friction, and competition with the South, almost certianly including further wars.
The enduring animosity would have led to alliances with opposing European factions that would have brought Europes wars to this continent just as it did Africa and the Middle East/Arabia.
Such a situation could very well have altered the outcomes of both World Wars and the Cold War.
Guess what? You hit the nail right on the head, you've just told me, for the most part, what I've already written for my project.
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Guess what? You hit the nail right on the head, you've just told me, for the most part, what I've already written for my project.
Harry Turtledove did a whole series of Alternate history stories along that theory. ;D
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Harry Turtledove did a whole series of Alternate history stories along that theory. ;D
I'll look him up, thanks.
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Here is a list of the books on this subject
http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pe.cgi?12384
* How Few Remain Universe
o How Few Remain (1997) by Harry Turtledove
o The Great War
+ The Great War: American Front (1998) by Harry Turtledove
+ The Great War: Walk in Hell (1999) by Harry Turtledove
+ The Great War: Breakthroughs (2000) by Harry Turtledove
o Settling Accounts
+ 1 Return Engagement (2004) by Harry Turtledove
+ 2 Drive to the East (2005) by Harry Turtledove
+ 3 The Grapple (2006) by Harry Turtledove
+ 4 In at the Death (2007) by Harry Turtledove
o The American Empire
+ 1 Blood and Iron (2001) by Harry Turtledove
+ 2 The Center Cannot Hold (2002) by Harry Turtledove also appeared as:
# Variant Title: The Centre Cannot Hold (2002)
+ 3 The Victorious Opposition (2003) by Harry Turtledove
Guns of the South involves time traveling South African giving Lee modern weapons , a good book but not part of the series.