The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Handguns => Topic started by: alfsauve on December 15, 2010, 07:30:48 AM
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Two of the guns I purchased over Thanksgiving weekend at auction finally arrived. (The third one was at the FFL, but the shipper forgot to include the paperwork....got them to fax it last night, so I'll pick up the third one today.)
I'm not, I mean I wouldn't describe myself as, a revolver man. While I own a couple that I inherited, I only had the desire for the SW 686 with 8-3/8" barrel that I bought to shoot silhouette. It's a fine gun. My wife does have her Charter Bulldog, but that's about it. So my best buddy and I were shooting together and he chided me on not having more revolvers. He had all the latest short barreled, light weight zir-ti-chro-mium-whatevers Smiths, none of which particularly appealed to me. He pointed out that revolvers still have the edge when ammo fails. Just pull the trigger again and you get a fresh round.
S O - O - O - O - O then came the thanksgiving auctions.
Here is a 6" barreled 586 to go with my 8" 686. And then I got this jewel, a 624, which is basically a 629, a .44 Magnum "N" frame fitted with a slightly shorter cylinder for .44 Special. Smith only made it in 1985 and 1986. Somewhere around ~7,500, I think, were made. Yes, one could just fire .44 Specials in a 629, but this is sort of unique. And it came with a 6.5" barrel also unique. Intended more for the target shooter than anything else. Or one can load the .44 Special up to higher velocities if desired. I think this will become the backwoods gun. Intimidating for 2 legged creatures and capable of stopping most 4 legged ones.
(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_udyXWMnOGhI/TQi9vg05VhI/AAAAAAAAhMY/u2sZXJ1SwUE/s720/IMG_3618.JPG)
Both "WERE" new and unfired. They went straight from the gun store counter to the range. The 624 came with box and all accessories. Neither gun has the internal lock feature....naturally since they are all pre-2000. The firing pins are integral to the hammer. And yes, before you ask, they work liked jeweled clocks. Very crisp single action and very smooth double action. I haven't pinned down the exact model and revision of the 586 yet.
And for those unfamiliar with S&W numbering, it's sort confusing like Glock, but there is some logic to it. The original numbers were 2 digits, like model 10, 19, and 29. Then they went to three digits with the first digit indicating the metal type. 5xx = blued steel, 6xx = Stainless, and the 3xx and 4xx those zir-ti-chro-mium-whatevers metals. There's more to it but that's the basics. If you asked me they used up (assigned) too many model numbers for slight variations. A 581 has fixed sights and a 586 adjustable. They should have just stuck a letter designator after the model it would have been better system. The 7 shot x86 should have been number the x87 in my opinion, but it isn't my call. Just trying to make sense of it.
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Here is a 6" barreled 586 to go with my 8" 686. And then I got this jewel, a 624, which is basically a 629, a .44 Magnum "N" frame fitted with a slightly shorter cylinder for .44 Special. Smith only made it in 1985 and 1986. Somewhere around ~7,500, I think, were made. Yes, one could just fire .44 Specials in a 629, but this is sort of unique.
VERY NICE!
Drool... :P
I don't like firing special length cases in my magnums. That .1" of carbon at the end of the cylinder is a PITA to get out. I just load up 44 special loads in magnum length cases. If you don't reload, you either have to scrub or get a SWEET GUN like Alf did!
I haven't pinned down the exact model and revision of the 586 yet.
It's stamped on the frame where the crane rotates. If it just says 586, you got the first version. 586-1 would be the first revision.
My action stuff should be delivered today. Yay!
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Nice! I'm not a revolver nut....but these are nice. Makes me want to pull out the 357's.
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Alf, check your PM.
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Love them wheel guns!!!
Very nice pick ups Alf... ;D 8)
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Alf, check your PM.
Thanks for the link.
FOR THOSE of you wondering, what he sent was a link to an old re-call for 624 and 629's. Seem the metal supplier mixed a bad batch (or at least not the correct hardness) and S&W made about 500 cylinders out of this material.
On the good side, since they weren't making any more .44spl cylinders for this frame, they were upgrading people to 629's (.44Mag). On the negative I don't know 25 years later if they'd still honor that. Plus the newer gun would be.....a newer gun. The barrel length wouldn't be 6.5, but 6".
On the negative, I don't want a gun where the cylinder might not hold together.
Problem solved. All guns that passed inspection were stamped.............duh, not on the gun but on the box label!!! Fortunately, I have the original box and label and the Red "C" indicates it was not a recalled one. (Now that I think about it, it might not be the "original - original" box, but the one that S&W shipped back to the buyer/dealer.) Doesn't matter. Mine's okay.
(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_udyXWMnOGhI/TQkcLtWbJRI/AAAAAAAAhNQ/YySbMVnGzTE/SW624Label.jpg)
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Good to hear!
I really didn't want to take the 'shine' off your new purchase, but I didn't want to have to call you Ol' Three Fingers either.
Just checked my email - "package delivered". Gotta go!
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Alf, I give, what is the third gun?
Richard
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Model 66 (357 mag) Pictures and report in the morning :'(
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They are nothing but sweet alf. Congratulations. Great additions.
Perfect revolver "iron"...something to hand down one day.
I had my napkin wipe the drool.... ::)
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Gonna have to change my moniker to "wheelman" now. Reactivated my S&W Forum account already which I had created because I was selling an old Victory model for my sister.
The third auction gun is a S&W 66 (no dash) made prior to 1977 when they introduced the -1.
GOOD NEWS: While used, it is in excellent shape. Locks tightly. Finish is in reasonable shape with few scratches. Action is smooth as glass. Notable features most of which they discontinued in later models, include, recessed cylinders, adjustable trigger stop and stainless steel sights.
TRIGGER STOP: I didn't even realize that the gun had this until I was reading in the S&W forum. Great for target work, but most LEOs had them removed anyway. If they work loose they can prevent a full trigger pull. Smith discontinued them later but left the slot in the frame, rather than re-do the machining. The parts could be added to later models. Definitely adds to collector value.
STAINLESS SIGHTS: Not a great idea.....BUT.....unique & collectable, just not great sights. If I intended to "carry" this gun, I'd put black sights in the rear and a red ramp on the front. Easy to do and I can always re-install the originals.
BAD NEWS: Light firing pin strike won't fire most of the ammo. Only fired 1 out of 6 .38spls. Simple to fix. First a good cleaning to make sure somethings not in the way. Second is to check the hammer spring. Might just order a new one anyway. And lastly is the firing pin, hammer mounted, which seems a little loose. I might replace that as well, just to be safe. I think, most of the firing pins are the same size, so I may try a swap. (Yes I'll put the micrometer to it before I do.)
All in all a good purchase. To Do List: Fix light hammer strike. Find original grips. Put in red ram and black rear sight.
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Oh, here's the picture. I'll take a different angle later so you can see the trigger stop
(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_udyXWMnOGhI/TQoOvnMN5RI/AAAAAAAAhNk/Y-V_omO6HP8/s720/IMG_3625.JPG)
And here are the threesome. The trigger stop is visible on the 66. I'll post the whole revolver stable later. I think many revolvers are just plain ugly and unassuming, but mine....well they're pretty and functional and more importantly, they LOOK functional. Not pimp guns, but for serious business. Nothing says "don't screw with me" like a big honkin' Smith.
(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_udyXWMnOGhI/TQoOxbCgU8I/AAAAAAAAhNs/1vwQgPCr3BM/s720/IMG_3627.JPG)
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Last post on the topic unless someone has a question.
Here's my wheel gun stable. I think they now outnumber the semi's.
Left to right top to bottom.
Wife's Charter Bulldog - .44 Spl and my Dad's H&R 999 .22lr
Great Uncle Asbury's, Chief of Police-Cordele, GA, S&W M&P .38spl and S&W 686 .357Mag
Bottom row: S&W 624 .44Spl, S&W 66 .357Mag, Grandmother's S&W .32S&W, S&W 586 .357Mag
(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_udyXWMnOGhI/TQo57Vo6iSI/AAAAAAAAhOM/ibIUnaazFJE/s720/IMG_3634.JPG)
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Nice set of triplets! ;D
The hammer nose isn't rigid, it should pivot on the rivet.
There is some vertical movement and most models have a spring that pushes it back down, on some models its not listed.
Check the strain screw on the mainspring. Someone may have loosened it to lighten the trigger pull. If the screw is tight, you can just bend the mainspring a bit (straighten) by hand to give it some more oomph.
I don't want to insult you but, you know how to get the sideplate off without dinging it up right?
How I do it: take out the screws, (the screwdriver must fit PERFECT and don't mix up the screws), push the thumblatch, swing out the cylinder and remove the cylinder and yoke.
I hold the gun sideplate down in one hand and bang on the grip with the plastic handle of the screwdriver. The sideplate and the hammer block will fall into your hand - DON'T PRY IT UP. It will bugger up the seam and you will kick yourself.
To replace, set the hammer block on the rebound slide pin and the L portion in front of the hammer. Push it up so the pin is at the bottom of the slot. Put the sideplate in place and use the screws to pull it into its final position.
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Nice collection! At lease you have some REAL GUNZ to go with the Tupperware. ;)
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Drool...... 8)
Very nice Alf.
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I don't want to insult you but, you know how to get the sideplate off without dinging it up right?
No problem. It's been awhile since I took one apart and it's nice to have your guidance to help. I do have the right sized driver tips, so I shouldn't bugger up too much.
The "inertia" trick works on lots of things besides side plates. But good to be reminded. I don't always remember when I'm taking somethings apart.
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Nice set of wheel guns there ALF. I have a few Smiths myself but still looking for just one more, or was that a few more. Next one just might be a 686 2.5 inch round butt and a 6 inch 686 would be nice to have too. Have fun with your new old ones. ;D
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Wheel guns are real guns!
Nice collections of iron there alf, but I gotta ask why no rugers?
Surely a redhawk or two and a GP100 or a security six wouldnt make the other kids jealous would they? ;)
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................., but I gotta ask why no rugers?
Surely a redhawk or two and a GP100 or a security six wouldnt make the other kids jealous would they? ;)
Two reasons. First, I swore off Ruger when they got involved in the 10 round magazine politics. Secondly, I can afford better now. The first issue they've left behind and I'm willing to let by-gones be by-gones. And I give them credit for working on the quality of late. Even to the extent of recommending some of their products.
My first handgun purchase was a Blackhawk .357 ~5" barrel. I traded it away and there are sentimental times I think I want it back, but I'm not sure why. So I let the feeling pass.
I pretty much am trying to spend my money on purpose-driven purchases. Nothing Ruger has in handguns would fill any itches/needs I have at the moment.
HOWEVER: All that said so logically.... I just found out the brother of one of my co-workers is a Ruger rep! I mean I just found out as in last night.............H-m-m-m-m-m-m. I wonder how I can arrange a little get together?
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Nice guns, although frankly, I'd trade off that iffy .357. If I have to mess with it to get it to work, I don't want it. Here's where we (me and Sledge) get to Ruger. ;D They just go bang period. They may be heavy and ugly, but if I had to choose a revolver to bet my life on, it would be a Ruger, no ifs, ands, or buts.
I don't get the cult of Smith and Wesson. They aren't as smooth as a Colt or as sturdy as Ruger. Folks love them though. I just don't see why. I have a Smith .38 that's nice, but I would trade it for a Colt or Ruger in a heartbeat and not have a second's regret. The way I see it, you go to the old Colts for smooth, the Ruger for durability and Taurus for price. Smith, I'm really not sure. This isn't a slam, its just that I see them as being more expensive than they should be. I love my .38 and I won't part with it unless I can get something better. Still, it doesn't speak to me like a gun of that price should. If I had to describe it, I'd say "Its nice". Its like my Glocks, I like it because it works, but I'm really not attached to it. Maybe its just me. I offer this not to be a jerk, just to get a discussion going, because I honestly don't get the whole "Smith mystique".
FQ13
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Well, first about that "iffy" 357. It was a pig in a poke and even if I had been at the auction I couldn't have test fired it. But it's easy to fix and was the result of somebody tampering with the internals. Not S&W's fault. Someone could as easily take a turn or two out of the main spring of the Ruger or a Colt.
Now about "cult" status. Not really "cult" more "groupie". [Along those lines, Harley Davidson wins, in my opinion, as the top "cult" product.....why? What other product logo are people so willing to have permanently tattooed on on their body? ]
Why VHS over Beta? Why Glock over SA? Why 1911's over P38? I'm sure there are many studies done over why some brands attain "cult" status. Why some products and brands who are superior lose out to other products and brands. What makes people become "groupies"? (Actually I can answer that one.....they want to belong. I call it the "Cheers" syndrome. Everybody wants to be part of a group where everybody knows your name.)
Colt was late to the market and had a limited product range. They were just introducing the Python in .357 when S&W was introducing the .44 Magnum. They were late in the stainless steel market and didn't introduce a .44 magnum until 1990. While I couldn't afford them, I was rooting for them to suceed, but they were too far behind the curve with too little capital to ever catch up with S&W. Colt always seemed more interested in the single action, the 1911 and the ARs than in DA revolvers. DA revolvers always seemed an afterthought. A "we must have, just so we can say we have it when we bid on government contracts" attitude.
Ruger's are good values, but nothing special. I've owned a Blackhawk and a Security Six. They were fine, but just. I've gotten past my "chip on the shoulder" over their involvement with 10rd magazines and I do think their product quality has improved. I even recommend Ruger products now. They fulfill a certain market. Just not mine.
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They may be heavy and ugly
Which is why I don't own one, add to that a crappy trigger and I don't want it.
I refer to Rugers as 'farm equipment'.
Durable, yes - do I want to carry a boat anchor around just so it will stand up to 30,000 rounds I will never fire out of it - no.
I don't get the cult of Smith and Wesson. They aren't as smooth as a Colt or as sturdy as Ruger. Folks love them though. I just don't see why. I have a Smith .38 that's nice, but I would trade it for a Colt or Ruger in a heartbeat and not have a second's regret. The way I see it, you go to the old Colts for smooth, the Ruger for durability and Taurus for price.
I thought people bought Rugers because of price.... ;)
I have fired exactly 2 Colt DA's in my life.
They didn't have as smooth of a trigger pull as the Smiths I owned at the time, and the pull noticeably stacked at the end.
I was not impressed.
Now that was 2 out of tens of thousands made so it's not a fair comparison, just my experience. I have not sought out a Colt revo since.
The Ruger revos I've shot were OK, but they certainly didn't make me want one. The Redhawk had an OK trigger, but could have been better.
Ugly guns just don't make my heart pound faster.
If you saw the show on Outdoor Channel about the Revolver Championships that Jerry Miculek won yet again, there were 230(?) particpants.
ALL BUT ONE SHOT S&Ws. One Ruger in the bunch. Why people claim that Smiths don't hold up is beyond me. A competitor that made it to the Revo Championships didn't get there by not shooting their guns a lot.
Obviously, you won't find a Python, Cobra or Trooper anywhere in top level competitions. Logistics make it unsupportable.
(and who wants to spend $1400+ for a used revolver then shoot it in competition)
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All 3 are beautiful Alf. Enjoy them! Hopefully you'll have enough time off during the holidays to do just that. I'm headed off to the range tomorrow. I need to put some downrange. Bill T.
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fq, I'm glad I'm not a S&W FANATIC because mentioning S&W and Glock in the same sentence would draw some harsh words! LOL That being said, always owned S&W revos when I owned revos. Never any S&W semis or Ruger semis or SA's and only 1 Colt revo. Just how I spend my $$$$ for the type of shooting I do.
Oh yes. Alf, nice collection.
Richard
PS: Never owned a Glock either....but came close.
PPS: Did MB ever post a range report on the Rhino? If so can someone lead me to the thread.