The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: tt11758 on December 17, 2010, 03:39:38 PM
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Police say an officer, who went to an Ohio pharmacy to pick up security video of another robbery hours earlier, stopped a second robbery. The incident at a Walgreens in Dayton was caught on surveillance tape. (Dec. 17)
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There used to be a country song in the 70's, by Bobby Bare I think, that had a line,
"You're the second robber here today, the first one, HE got away, I guess you're just a LITTLE bit late"
Hope he wasn't stealing lotto tickets ;D
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Interesting. What could this cop have done differently to apprehend the bad guy? I notice the BG wasn't concerned with the gun pointed to is head and face.
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I like the way the "citizens" jumped right in to help Barney Fife, who I noticed walked past the hold up in progress once before he got a clue.
They probably all stuffed things in their pockets since the clerk was outside.
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Do you think maybe some verbal commands to gain compliance at more than contact range would be better?
Good for the cop but - holy mother of God! Maintain some distance!
He's lucky this guy was not a graduate of the Higher Learning Facility for Felons or was just plain unmotivated. A con who has 2 or more strikes already might have made this REALLY ugly.
Don't get into a wrestling match, one handed, with no backup, while having to do weapon retention, if you don't have to.
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There's nothing on the video to show Barney didn't get his butt kicked. ::)
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But hey! He was holding his gun sideways in the approved intimidating manner. ::) Seriously, this was a tough call, he was alone and had to act, but given the robber was clueless that he was there, maybe waiting a minute and then tazining the guy might have been better? It does seem like this is one of those cases where the old adage of "If you pull a gun you better be prepared to use it" seems apt. The cop drew his weapon. This escalated it to life or death. Deescalating to a one handed wrestling match seems ill advised. Right or wrong, the gun is out, the BG is neither complying or running. Its a damn tough position to be in, but I think I'd have fired rather than let the BG get within arms reach of the gun much less start a scuffle. It seems to me that the training officers of the Dayton PD need to be fired or at least retrained. That video should be required viewing for a "what not to do" segment of cop 101. I may be totally wrong here, but thats what the tape seems to show. Obviously, there is more to the story.
FQ13
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But hey! He was holding his gun sideways in the approved intimidating manner. ::) Seriously, this was a tough call, he was alone and had to act, but given the robber was clueless that he was there, maybe waiting a minute and then tazining the guy might have been better? It does seem like this is one of those cases where the old adage of "If you pull a gun you better be prepared to use it" seems apt. The cop drew his weapon. This escalated it to life or death. Deescalating to a one handed wrestling match seems ill advised. Right or wrong, the gun is out, the BG is neither complying or running. Its a damn tough position to be in, but I think I'd have fired rather than let the BG get within arms reach of the gun much less start a scuffle. It seems to me that the training officers of the Dayton PD need to be fired or at least retrained. That video should be required viewing for a "what not to do" segment of cop 101. I may be totally wrong here, but thats what the tape seems to show. Obviously, there is more to the story.
FQ13
In them situations dont you use it to cold cock the bad guys like in the movies? ;D
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2 things, First, the Cop was just walking in to pick up security video of The previous robbery so it's doubtful he was geared up as he would be "On Patrol" ( No club or Tazer ).
Second, until he got the thief turned around he had no view of whether he was armed or not, so drawing his pistol was a better idea than not drawing it.
2 other things, Had the cop been more aware he would have seen what was happening through the window, or at least from the doorway, second, He never should have approached a potentially armed bad guy the way he did.
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Since the BG didn't even know the cop was there, the cop should have tazed the guy to put him on the floor and then drawn his weapon and handcuffs. The cop was just as surprised as the perp, so things didn't go by the book.
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In them situations dont you use it to cold cock the bad guys like in the movies? ;D
When I was a young man, every cop carried a blackjack just for that reason. They are much easier to cuff when bad guys are unconsious. (See the Good Old Days)
The officer got way too close. He was in a position to be disarmed pretty easily several times.
The crook knew he was not going to shoot him so he tried to get away.
It looked to me the officer was hoping the crook would stop resisting instead of whooping his ass into complience.
The "large" clerk looked like a rather unimposing ally.
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Since the BG didn't even know the cop was there, the cop should have tazed the guy to put him on the floor and then drawn his weapon and handcuffs. The cop was just as surprised as the perp, so things didn't go by the book.
One practical problem with your suggestion. Inasmuch as:
1 - The officer couldn't see the BG's hands to see if he was pointing a gun at the clerk, and
2 - Tasers cause involuntary muscle contractions,
tasing a BG who MIGHT be pointing a gun at the clerk, with his booger hook on the bang switch, could conceivably cause the mother of all AD's.
You don't want to be standing over a bleeding clerk in the aftermath saying, "Oops, my bad."
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This brings us to the question. Should the officer have pulled the trigger? Lets assume no sap, no club and tazing was either a bad idea or he didn't have one. Its him, the BG, the clerk, a bunch of useless civilians who watched a a cop wrestle an armed robber and did nothing and, oh yeah, an unholstered weapon. Me, I'd have shot the guy before the wrestling ensued. I figure that the BG has seen the badge and weapon and heard the commands. Maybe the gun shouldn't have been drawn (I think it was an ok if not ideal call), but drawn it was. If he gets within striking distance, I shoot. What is your take? I'd like to hear from LEOs as well as the rest of us, but LEOs most of all.
FQ13
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This brings us to the question. Should the officer have pulled the trigger?
In my retired fire guy opinion - no.
I figure that the BG has seen the badge and weapon and heard the commands. Maybe the gun shouldn't have been drawn (I think it was an ok if not ideal call), but drawn it was. If he gets within striking distance, I shoot.
The only problem I see with this is that the cop put HIMSELF within striking distance for no apparent reason. Too bad there is no audio.
No obvious verbal commands. (I haven't watched the vid in a few days but the clerk is out of camera range. This seemed to be the BG's cue to start his stupidity)
Once he closed the gap and put the gun to the guys head, he left himself with no options except killing the guy or getting into a wrestling match. Which all the dimwits around seemed OK with. ::)
He had a flashlight that could have been used as a baton, and everybody and their brother has a taser as a LEO. Someone mentioned that this was Dayton - (I'm assuming Ohio) They do have tasers but I don't know if every cop has one.
That would have been my 1st choice, second would be spray, deadly force a distant 3rd.
This cop appears to have gotten emotionally wrapped up in the situation and left his training somewhere.