The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: Hazcat on December 28, 2010, 01:43:23 PM
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On Monday night's edition of "Hardball," host Chris Matthews talked about putting the birth certificate controversy surrounding President Obama to rest.
"Why has the president himself not demanded they put out the original documents?" Matthews wonders.
"If it exists, why not put it out?" Chris Matthews asks.
Posted on December 27, 2010
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2010/12/27/chris_matthews_why_doesnt_obama_just_release_the_birth_certificate.html
video at link
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If they exist (and I believe they do) then he wouldn't be able to paint his detractors as lunatic fringe and it would no longer be an issue to distract the lamestream media's attention from the real issues (but I'm sure they'd find other things).
If he admits they don't exist, well then, our prayers will have been answered. ;D
Either way, it is all upside for the public and all downside for B'HO.
Guess that aint gonna happen.
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Actually, its really not cut and dried. The Constitution specifies a "natural born citizen". Does that mean born in the US? If so, McCain wouldn't have qualified as he was born in Panama. It was at a US base and under our soveriegnty, but still foriegn soil. Obama? Let's assume Kenya or Indonesia. His mother was a US citizen. To DQ him the court would have to rule that if an American woman gives birth overseas her child is not a citizen. That is absurd on its face. Our law has always encompassed both jus sanguinis AND jus soli. You are a citizen if your mother is American or if you were born on US soil. It can be argued that the framers intended this. There are counter arguments as 18th and 19th century law said that a woman't citizenship followed that of her husband, but expat childen were still citizens. The necessities of early travel mandated this. And the idea that you surrender citizenship by marrying a foriegn national has been repudiated. So, its not a silver bullet to get rid of the guy.
FQ13
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That question was asked and answered in regard to McCain's birthright, Jay! US Military bases are considered part of the United States as are our overseas cemeteries, Naval and Army ships at sea, et al.....
As to the rest, I'm not going to lose any more sleep over it because if someone were to produce a video tape of little Barry crowing out of mommy's va-j-j with the Capital Building of Kenya in the background, no one in the mainstream would believe it.
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That question was asked and answered in regard to McCain's birthright, Jay! US Military bases are considered part of the United States as are our overseas cemeteries, Naval and Army ships at sea, et al.....
As to the rest, I'm not going to lose any more sleep over it because if someone were to produce a video tape of little Barry crowing out of mommy's va-j-j with the Capital Building of Kenya in the background, no one in the mainstream would believe it.
That's kind of my point Timothy. The idea is that "natural born citizen" is rather vague. The clearest definition you can come up with is someone who was born under,American soveriegnty or born to someone who was. The Constitution is vague on the issue. The idea that you can produce your photo and say "Ahha! Got you!" is rather naive. Its uncharted legal territory.
FQ13
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Someone asked the question earlier, but it bears repeating.
How come they can keep this so secret but WikiLeaks can gain access to anything the State Department has?
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That's kind of my point Timothy. The idea is that "natural born citizen" is rather vague. The clearest definition you can come up with is someone who was born under,American soveriegnty or born to someone who was. The Constitution is vague on the issue. The idea that you can produce your photo and say "Ahha! Got you!" is rather naive. Its uncharted legal territory.
FQ13
I wasn't really arguing with you, I'm just sick that it's actually come to this. He'll be done in two years and about 24 days. We can hope some asshat in his admin will write a tell all and we'll know the truth, or not!
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I wasn't really arguing with you, I'm just sick that it's actually come to this. He'll be done in two years and about 24 days. We can hope some asshat in his admin will write a tell all and we'll know the truth, or not!
And here we agree. One term and gone. Assuming the GOP can field a good candidate, he can pound nails with Carter.
FQ13
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And here we agree. One term and gone. Assuming the GOP can field a good candidate, he can pound nails with Carter.
FQ13
There is the problem! I keep hearing the same old loser names, Romney, Gingrich, Palin, Huckabee. All sure losers.
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And here we agree. One term and gone. Assuming the GOP can field a good candidate, he can pound nails with Carter.
FQ13
There is the problem! I keep hearing the same old loser names, Romney, Gingrich, Palin, Huckabee. All sure losers.
But I'd take a high functioning moron over a Democrat any day Haz!
Bobby Jindhal worth a look? I don't know much about the guy, how 'bout Barbour or did he step on his tongue last week?
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I like Barbour but he has too much baggage. Too much ammo for the MSM.
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The truth is Obama wasn't born anywhere. He was hatched out of a pod.
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Honestly, I would not releae it, just to piss some people off.
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Anyone find it ironic that the asshat asking the question is Chris Mathews (D)...former BHO toilet paper substitute?
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Anyone find it ironic that the asshat asking the question is Chris Mathews (D)...former BHO toilet paper substitute?
i think he got the feeling back in that "tingling" leg. :-\
FQ13
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Actually, its really not cut and dried. The Constitution specifies a "natural born citizen". Does that mean born in the US? If so, McCain wouldn't have qualified as he was born in Panama. It was at a US base and under our soveriegnty, but still foriegn soil. Obama? Let's assume Kenya or Indonesia. His mother was a US citizen. To DQ him the court would have to rule that if an American woman gives birth overseas her child is not a citizen. That is absurd on its face. Our law has always encompassed both jus sanguinis AND jus soli. You are a citizen if your mother is American or if you were born on US soil. It can be argued that the framers intended this. There are counter arguments as 18th and 19th century law said that a woman't citizenship followed that of her husband, but expat childen were still citizens. The necessities of early travel mandated this. And the idea that you surrender citizenship by marrying a foriegn national has been repudiated. So, its not a silver bullet to get rid of the guy.
FQ13
Even for a College Prof, you are ill informed. Both McCain's parents were US citizens, He would qualify as a "Natural born citizen if he were born in the Russian sector of the Moon. The fact that he was born in a US Navy hospital on what, until carter, was US soil only reinforces the legitimacy of that due to accurate record keeping. Only an idiot would even raise the question.
Another statement of your ignorance is "To DQ him the court would have to rule that if an American woman gives birth overseas her child is not a citizen. The fact is that for a period of time, ( I am not sure of the years ) if an American woman married a non citizen she did indeed lose her citizenship. This issue was discussed ad nauseum in another thread.
The remaining questions about Obummers birth have nothing to do with citizenship except in the minds of the ignorant and the tin foil set. His mother was a US citizen at the time of his birth where ever that vent occurred, there is no record of him (He would have to do it in writing to the proper section of the State dept. ) renouncing his citizenship, therefore the citizenship of Barry Obama is not open to question.
What is open to question are two items, Was Barry Obama Sr. the listed Father,or was it the child molesting black poet "Frank" from the CPUSA ? Is this person in the Whitehouse actually the son of Ann Dunham, or just some one who found the name useful ?
How does a dope smoking, B-Ball playing mediocre student suddenly wind up at Harvard ? How does a kid raised by a hardware store proprietor afford Harvard, or finance an illegal trip to Pakistan ?
Another thing, it is not just a matter of his birth certificate, why are all his personal records kept secret ? Did he lie on Financial aid forms ? Or was his education financed through bank accounts connected to the CPUSA ? Did he really serve as the only unpublished editor of the Harvard Law Review ? Or is this another exaggeration, like his being a "Constitutional law professor" ? Or were his published works so egregiously racist or communist as to possibly disqualify him from holding office ? What was his actual relationship with the terrorist Bill Ayer's and his convicted bomber wife ? He claims they were neighbors, who happened to work in the same building, yet their business phone numbers were the same extension, and he launched his Senate campaign in their living room.
And you have the nerve to parrot the communists attacks on Palin's qualifications ? You are exactly the sort of dumb ass they counted on to get this POS elected.
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And here we agree. One term and gone. Assuming the GOP can field a good candidate, he can pound nails with Carter.
FQ13
The odds of me taking up permanent residence on the moon are greater than the odds of the GOP not screwing this up and handing Obama another term.
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Pres. BHO's citizenship is a serious matter - Was he born in Hawaii to a U.S. citizen which would have given him legal status; was he born in Africa; did he or his parents for him renounce his citizenship for some reason? It is way too easy to prove if BHO or his cronies wished, but for some reason they don't want to!
Do they not lay out the facts because they can't, or is it because they love making us look like raving idiots?
In the big picture it doesn't matter why they don't want to make this go away. We are playing into their hand by hanging on to it! We need to look at what they are able to do while we distract ourselves with an issue that they can use to paint us like lunatics in the MSM. This is no different than The Three Stooges jokes where Moe says look at that, and then he kicks Larry in the nuts.
Yes, I do believe that it is more than a little important that we pay attention to our Constitution, but we are loosing more by focusing on this. This bag of jello (skin wrapped around a bunch of stuff that contains no spine or other structure and easily pushed and formed by the shifting forces of those around him) is going to be in office for two more years, and we need to work at ways to hold him in check until he can be defeated in 2012 and replaced in January 2013. I we don't shift our energies he will win today and in 2012!
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Going to post my reply with in your post
Pres. BHO's citizenship is a serious matter - Was he born in Hawaii to a U.S. citizen which would have given him legal status; As long as his Mother was a US Citizen, except for a period around the turn of the century, it does not matter where he was whelped, he automatically becomes a US Citizen was he born in Africa; did he or his parents for him renounce his citizenship for some reason? He would have had to do that in person and in writing before a particular office in a US Embassy or Consulate and there would be a public record of it. None exists , so no, his citizenship was never renounced. It is way too easy to prove if BHO or his cronies wished, but for some reason they don't want to!
Do they not lay out the facts because they can't, or is it because they love making us look like raving idiots?
In the big picture it doesn't matter why they don't want to make this go away. We are playing into their hand by hanging on to it! We need to look at what they are able to do while we distract ourselves with an issue that they can use to paint us like lunatics in the MSM. This is no different than The Three Stooges jokes where Moe says look at that, and then he kicks Larry in the nuts.
More than likely, IMO, there is something about his, or his mother's relationship with Frank Davis Marshall (I often confuse the middle and last names :-\ ) that would indicate some direct connection to the Communist party, Such connection would have turned off to many voters for him to get elected.
Yes, I do believe that it is more than a little important that we pay attention to our Constitution, but we are loosing more by focusing on this. This bag of jello (skin wrapped around a bunch of stuff that contains no spine or other structure and easily pushed and formed by the shifting forces of those around him) is going to be in office for two more years, and we need to work at ways to hold him in check until he can be defeated in 2012 and replaced in January 2013. I we don't shift our energies he will win today and in 2012!
The odds of me taking up permanent residence on the moon are greater than the odds of the GOP not screwing this up and handing Obama another term.
I agree, with a Republican dominated Congress, Obummer will be prevented from doing much else to PO the voters over the next 2 years. The nearly nonexistent memory span of the average voter will almost guarantee his re-election in 2012.
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Going to post my reply with in your post
I agree, with a Republican dominated Congress, Obummer will be prevented from doing much else to PO the voters over the next 2 years. The nearly nonexistent memory span of the average voter will almost guarantee his re-election in 2012.
I'd rather see the Gov. deadlocked for the next six years than have it be productive in the manner it his been in the past...especially the past 2 years.
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I'd rather see the Gov. deadlocked for the next six years than have it be productive in the manner it his been in the past...especially the past 2 years.
It is doubtful it will work that way. Between BO's veto, and the lack of courage inherent in politicians who have to rely on popularity to keep their jobs, the Republicans are unlikely to accomplish much either.
It is likely that , just like in 08 he will get Dem control of the Congress again which he will claim as a mandate. Since he is (currently ) prohibited from a 3rd term he will do as he pleases and to hell with the People or the Constitution.
What is needed is an end to the 2 party system.
A viable 3rd party would prevent any party from achieving a majority. That way they would all have to focus on real improvement rather than simply defeating the opposing party.
The only way the TEA Party would qualify is if they severed all ties to the Republicans, currently they are merely a faction with in the Rep. Party and therefore at the mercy of the same old party leadership.
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This keeps coming up, and will not go away because the answers and explanations are not good enough. Their answers simply provide more questions. This is a lot like the Kennedy assassination. You have the "Oswald did it alone" crew. They think the conspiracy theory guys are all nuts. But they have tapes of Santo Trafficante and Sam Giancana who worked with the CIA saying "He's (Kennedy) going to be hit". They can't disprove it, so they ignore it. You have the cocktail waitress who Ruby introduced to Oswald 3 weeks before the assassination. They say she's "Lying". The 3 hobos, one who looks like E. Howard Hunt, and on and on. They have no explanation.
Fast forward to Barry Sorento, Barack Hussein Obama, or whoever the hell he calls himself now, and it's the exact same thing. Hussein can't prove a thing, so he won't say a thing. If your suspected of committing a crime, you don't talk to the cops. When almost 50% of the public thinks your a lying A-Hole of a "President", you don't talk to the press. Much like Kennedy, Hussein will go to his grave, and we won't know the answers. Bill T.
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As far as McCain goes, despite wherever he was born, I would think his service as a Navy pilot, and prisoner of the infamous Hanoi Hilton would guarantee some sort of citizenship status automatically.
I haven't read the books myself, but I guess Robert Heinlein wrote the Starship Troopers book(s?). There is an often quoted line from that book:
service guarantees citizenship
In that same vein, yeah, in a way, I do wish that it was in the Constitution that the President must have served honorably in the military for X amount of time. I mean...he is supposed to be Commander in Chief, right? He should know first hand what it's like to be the private or corporal down in the trenches....especially before he sends them half way around the world to Third World $hitholes for whatever reasons.
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As far as McCain goes, despite wherever he was born, I would think his service as a Navy pilot, and prisoner of the infamous Hanoi Hilton would guarantee some sort of citizenship status automatically.
I haven't read the books myself, but I guess Robert Heinlein wrote the Starship Troopers book(s?). There is an often quoted line from that book:
In that same vein, yeah, in a way, I do wish that it was in the Constitution that the President must have served honorably in the military for X amount of time. I mean...he is supposed to be Commander in Chief, right? He should know first hand what it's like to be the private or corporal down in the trenches....especially before he sends them half way around the world to Third World $hitholes for whatever reasons.
Yes, Heinlein wrote "Starship Troopers" (just the one book ) it's a small book, 200 pages or less and it is supposedly aimed at a juvenile audience, but the thoughts on Duty, Honor, and Citizenship make it worth reading by every one.
It should be required reading for any one who wants to hold any public office.
I agree that service should be a requirement, We have had enough Generals for President to shoot down the fear of "Military Dictatorship".
Unfortunately we can't even demand proof of citizenship from voters let alone that politicians actually do something to earn the trust they are given. :-\
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Currently 31 Presidents have served.
Should it be a requirement? Not for me to say but those that didn't serve aren't exactly memorable are they?
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I'm pretty sure obama is going to be remember for a long time...
to be fair I see a huge diffrence between those that actually fought, vs those that served on some base in the states.
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Obama who?
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I'm pretty sure obama is going to be remember for a long time...
to be fair I see a huge diffrence between those that actually fought, vs those that served on some base in the states.
I'm pretty sure obama is going to be remember for a long time...
to be fair I see a huge diffrence between those that actually fought, vs those that served on some base in the states.
I have to disagree with you on that TAB, jimmy carter was Commander of a nuclear sub, while Nixon was a military lawyer, NH's President who was basically a do nothing place holder was a Brigadier General in the Mexican war, While John Adams was not even active in the militia,Eisenhower never saw combat either.
I would have to say that the character of the Man is more important than the position he filled.
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Correction Tom..
Carter was being trained to be a nuclear submarine Officer but he never commanded the SS Minnow. He left the Navy after his daddy died, one year before the SSN 571 Nautilus was launched.
Carter is a Veteran and for that he deserves my thanks. Since then, rather unimpressed with his accomplishments.
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jimmah was one of Rickover's fair haired boys. I read somewhere that old Hyman never forgave him for resigning.
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jimmah was one of Rickover's fair haired boys. I read somewhere that old Hyman never forgave him for resigning.
Hyman Rickover was a taskmaster to put it mildly. When I worked at Electric Boat in the early 80's, they were still telling stories of the Admiral.
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He put Presidents in their place, Real ones I mean. ;D
He was the Navy's answer to Hoover ;D
It seemed like they were going to have to do away with the Navy to get rid of him .
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It is doubtful it will work that way. Between BO's veto, and the lack of courage inherent in politicians who have to rely on popularity to keep their jobs, the Republicans are unlikely to accomplish much either.
It is likely that , just like in 08 he will get Dem control of the Congress again which he will claim as a mandate. Since he is (currently ) prohibited from a 3rd term he will do as he pleases and to hell with the People or the Constitution.
What is needed is an end to the 2 party system.
A viable 3rd party would prevent any party from achieving a majority. That way they would all have to focus on real improvement rather than simply defeating the opposing party.
The only way the TEA Party would qualify is if they severed all ties to the Republicans, currently they are merely a faction with in the Rep. Party and therefore at the mercy of the same old party leadership.
That is why I belong to the Libertarian Party. Not perfect, but nothing is, but I can live with most of it's stuff and work to change the rest...pretty much the opposite of how I feel about the Rs and Ds....although I did vote R last presidential election.....BHO was just to bad not to try to pool as many votes against him as possible.
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I have to disagree with you on that TAB, jimmy carter was Commander of a nuclear sub, while Nixon was a military lawyer, NH's President who was basically a do nothing place holder was a Brigadier General in the Mexican war, While John Adams was not even active in the militia,Eisenhower never saw combat either.
I would have to say that the character of the Man is more important than the position he filled.
Wouldn't have guessed that, or believed it either....didn't until I did the research....
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Wouldn't have guessed that, or believed it either....didn't until I did the research....
I never heard of him seeing action in WWI, like Truman did, so I did a quick check on wiki and it seems he spent the war state side training Tankers.
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I never heard of him seeing action in WWI, like Truman did, so I did a quick check on wiki and it seems he spent the war state side training Tankers.
yeah...and by the time WWII came around he had to many stars to and was to good at planning to get sent were bullets wizzed by
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Actually Solus, at the opening of WWII Ike was a mere Col. His former boss said "He was the best Aide I ever had".
High, but left handed praise from MacArthur.