The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Politics & RKBA => Topic started by: Teresa Heilevang on January 01, 2011, 11:40:07 PM
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-Ron Paul
Perhaps the biggest media story of 2010 was the influence of Tea Party voters on the congressional landscape. The new congress comes to Capitol Hill with a mandate to end profligate spending and restore fiscal sanity, we are told. But when the House and Senate convene in January, the newly elected members will face tremendous pressure to maintain spending levels for entitlement programs. Even the most modest proposals to trim Social Security or Medicare spending will be met with howls of indignation and threats of voter revolt. Legislators who propose any kind of means testing or increased retirement ages can expect angry visits from senior citizen lobbyists ready to fund a candidate back home who supports the status quo.
But millions of Americans now realize that the status quo is an illusion that will not last even another 10 or 20 years. The federal government cannot continue to spend a trillion dollars more than it collects in revenue each year, because we are running out of creditors. Fiscal reality is setting in, and the consequences may be grim even if Congress finds the courage to take decisive action now.
Courage begins with a commitment to see things as they are, rather than how we wish they were. When it comes to Social Security, we must understand that the system does not represent an old age pension, an “insurance” program, or even a forced savings program. It simply represents an enormous transfer payment, with younger workers paying taxes to fund benefits. There is no Social Security trust fund, and you don’t have an “account.” Whether you win or lose the Social Security lottery is a function of when you happened to be born and how long you live to collect benefits. Of course young people today have every reason to believe they will never collect those benefits.
read more:
http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul714.html
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-Ron Paul
Perhaps the biggest media story of 2010 was the influence of Tea Party voters on the congressional landscape. The new congress comes to Capitol Hill with a mandate to end profligate spending and restore fiscal sanity, we are told. But when the House and Senate convene in January, the newly elected members will face tremendous pressure to maintain spending levels for entitlement programs. Even the most modest proposals to trim Social Security or Medicare spending will be met with howls of indignation and threats of voter revolt. Legislators who propose any kind of means testing or increased retirement ages can expect angry visits from senior citizen lobbyists ready to fund a candidate back home who supports the status quo.
But millions of Americans now realize that the status quo is an illusion that will not last even another 10 or 20 years. The federal government cannot continue to spend a trillion dollars more than it collects in revenue each year, because we are running out of creditors. Fiscal reality is setting in, and the consequences may be grim even if Congress finds the courage to take decisive action now.
Courage begins with a commitment to see things as they are, rather than how we wish they were. When it comes to Social Security, we must understand that the system does not represent an old age pension, an “insurance” program, or even a forced savings program. It simply represents an enormous transfer payment, with younger workers paying taxes to fund benefits. There is no Social Security trust fund, and you don’t have an “account.” Whether you win or lose the Social Security lottery is a function of when you happened to be born and how long you live to collect benefits. Of course young people today have every reason to believe they will never collect those benefits.
read more:
http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul714.html
That is exactly what it was intended as until Johnson and the Dems stole the money to fund his useless "Great Society" bs.
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When Bush wanted to implement a PORTION of SS to personal investment choices that were PROVEN to get a better return, the left, thought he had just killed puppies, kittens, and babies.,.....
Al Gore and his "lockbox" BS.....Pluuuuuhhhhheeeezzzzzzz........
They STOLE my Mother's SS, when she died. Said "F" you very much,.... one less dependent to pay out, but here's your $200 one time death contribution.
Biggest scam of an entitlement society out there. How DARE WE THE PEOPLE, decide....
If I take a pistol and put it to a man's head and take his money,,....I go to Prison......The Gov't gets away with it every week.
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I for one, will be investing the 2% they don't steal from me this year and not pissing it away. I know that's not what they want me to do with it but phuque them. The last time I did what the Government wanted me to do I was still on their payroll and even then I ALWAYS questioned my superiors!
I don't need a new TV or some other gadget so the Feds will have to figure another way to stimulate the economy. Me, I'm doing the smart thing and making it work for me...
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When Bush wanted to implement a PORTION of SS to personal investment choices that were PROVEN to get a better return, the left, thought he had just killed puppies, kittens, and babies.,.....
Al Gore and his "lockbox" BS.....Pluuuuuhhhhheeeezzzzzzz........
They STOLE my Mother's SS, when she died. Said "F" you very much,.... one less dependent to pay out, but here's your $200 one time death contribution.
Biggest scam of an entitlement society out there. How DARE WE THE PEOPLE, decide....
If I take a pistol and put it to a man's head and take his money,,....I go to Prison......The Gov't gets away with it every week.
This is the scum sucking POS that cast the tie breaking vote to give OUR Social Security money to illegal aliens.
And the voters still came close to electing the azzhole president.
Things like this are why I say the election process is broken and it is past time for the killing to begin.
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I know we all tend to blame the politicians here, and deservedly so, but can we also blame the American people? Keep in mind when Bush attempted to reform SS there were massive protests across the country. The thinking of the American people has to change. The thought the majority (and I believe it is the majority) have is they somehow can pay next to nothing in taxes and get a benefit that far exceeds what they paid.
I know they talk about cutting entitlement programs but how about cutting the defense budget? How about pulling our troops out of places we have no business being, cutting programs that even military brass say they don't need, and getting rid of the DHS? That might not cure the problem, but it will be a big step in the right direction.
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FA, your right, an entitlement society is a vast majority of this country...."What's in it for me?" As opposed to stay the hell out of my life, has become a rampant problem.ere
To continue your questions.....How about those of us that work,,...have a choice on how to invest OUR money, and leave it to our families when we die.
If I work for 40/50+ years, have my SS stolen from my paycheck, and have no say on where it should end up, and have it kept by an ungrateful gov't, that has given me NOTHING, than it needs to change.
The Libtard asshats won't get it, and it's our job as citizens, to "fix them"...
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Amen Full Auto! Unless you do both of those things youre pissing in the wind, as defense and entitlements make up well over half of the buget. You can cut discretionary spending in half and still won't start reducing the defeceit, let alone the debt. Its time to tell Europe and Japan that the 50 year free ride on defense spending is over. Likewise, we will stop paying Egypt and Israel billions apiece every year not to kill each other, and the Kosovars are on their own. Let the EU deal with it. As far as SS? Means test it. If you make more than say $75k per year in retirement, your SS payments drop drastically. Same with Medicare. Over that amount (indexed fior inflation) you start paying premiums. Taxes probably need to go up as well, though in a very targeted manner. Start with companies that outsource over seas and those that don't use Everify in hiring.
There is only one way to get out of debt. Reduce spending and increase revenue. Its an iron law of economics and we aren't immue to it just because we are the US of A. :P
FQ13
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Amen Full Auto! Unless you do both of those things youre pissing in the wind, as defense and entitlements make up well over half of the buget. You can cut discretionary spending in half and still won't start reducing the defeceit, let alone the debt. Its time to tell Europe and Japan that the 50 year free ride on defense spending is over. Likewise, we will stop paying Egypt and Israel billions apiece every year not to kill each other, and the Kosovars are on their own. Let the EU deal with it. As far as SS? Means test it. If you make more than say $75k per year in retirement, your SS payments drop drastically. Same with Medicare. Over that amount (indexed fior inflation) you start paying premiums. Taxes probably need to go up as well, though in a very targeted manner. Start with companies that outsource over seas and those that don't use Everify in hiring.
There is only one way to get out of debt. Reduce spending and increase revenue. Its an iron law of economics and we aren't immue to it just because we are the US of A. :P
FQ13
And to use one of your sayings (slightly modified...), Quaker, "And on this we agree completely".....
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A system that was put in place as a safety net for disability and retirement, and now we can't expect anything from the 15.3% of my gross pay that they take from me >:(
I have always contended, and I will until someone shows me the figures, that Social Security and Medicare are not in trouble. The trouble in in the General Fund that has borrowed the money and is not paying back even the principle. I have worked either part time or full time paying into the system since I was 10 years old - 42 years. Last year I did the math (it took several days), and if it had been placed in a 5% interest bearing account (deposited at the end of the year, so the number is actually low based off missed interest from January and February payments that are missing almost 12 months of interest), and with compounding I would have nearly $3 million. Why can't I expect something out of this account >:(
These figures do not count what my wife has. Her's is actually higher than mine, because during many of our farming years I paid her very well to build her account while relying on profits for myself ... bad decision in the 80's farm economy. Take our Social Security 100% as of today and apply it to the national debt! I will start from scratch, and I bet you can find enough that would do this to nearly erase the debt. Only problem is that our credit limit would then be so high that the career spenders in the limestone buildings would have us in worse shape in two years >:(
Am I ranting ::)
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I am with you on this, m58.
I do not consider SS an entitlement, at least not in the cases of folks who have paid into.
When the Gov. hands me the check for the amount I have paid in plus the matching amount my employer has paid in since that amount was not given to me in wages either for all the years I have paid in, 42 years, plus compound interest on all of it, then they can consider our accounts balanced.
As TomB and others have pointed out, the Gov. has stolen the deposits of contributing Americans.
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I for one, will be investing the 2% they don't steal from me this year and not pissing it away. I know that's not what they want me to do with it but phuque them. The last time I did what the Government wanted me to do I was still on their payroll and even then I ALWAYS questioned my superiors!
I don't need a new TV or some other gadget so the Feds will have to figure another way to stimulate the economy. Me, I'm doing the smart thing and making it work for me...
Several European countries ( Ireland and Holland that I know of )have siezed, if not all, then part, of private retirement plans to fund government services. It has been proposed by the elitest "economist" of our ivy league indoctronation centers here in the US.
Succession just keeps lookin better and better.
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I know about the seizures in Europa which is why I don't currently contribute to a retirement account. I'm just sitting on the money I gleaned from my 401K when I left my last employer. Figured I'd wait to see that the climate is before I dump it into a Roth or some other vehicle. It's just sitting in my accounts for the time being.
Yes, I paid the penalty and taxes but it's better than getting it stolen. My current employer has an abysmal plan with no matching funds.
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401ks are still attractive if there is employer matching. The last couple of places that I had them it was $.30-$.50 on the dollar up to x amout and depending on seniority. You can't beat that with a stick. A Roth is second best if you qualify. I'd be less exicited about a traditional IRA. I don't see government seizure as realistic. There would honestly be blood in the streets over that one.
FQ13
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Social security can't be an entitlement if you are paid based on what you put in. Now if someone draws it as a disability then it should come out of the Welfare fund since it does not represent a lifetime of work deductions. If I have an insurance claim against my policy that is not an entitlement, if I contribute to an annuity then there is a schedule to show what my payment will be when I retire and that is not an entitlement. It was intended as a supplement to whatever retirement you already had, that is why your pension is reduced when you begin to draw Social Security. Giving SS benefits to illegals is breaking a promise to the American people.
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Social security can't be an entitlement if you are paid based on what you put in. Now if someone draws it as a disability then it should come out of the Welfare fund since it does not represent a lifetime of work deductions. If I have an insurance claim against my policy that is not an entitlement, if I contribute to an annuity then there is a schedule to show what my payment will be when I retire and that is not an entitlement. It was intended as a supplement to whatever retirement you already had, that is why your pension is reduced when you begin to draw Social Security. Giving SS benefits to illegals is breaking a promise to the American people. Couple of laws passed by Congress and signed by Presidents, as well as violating the Constitution
Fixed it >:(