The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: TAB on January 03, 2011, 02:24:59 AM
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http://cheaperthandirt.com/blog/?p=5659&utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=KSGFacebookSocial010310
(http://cheaperthandirt.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/KSG_3357web.jpg)
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I take back any negative comment I've ever made about Kel-Tec. May I have one please? ;) Sweet lord, if that thing is anywhere near affordable and reliable, I want one. Oviously, it looks like there is a lot of mechanical complexity to provide murphy points. Still, its very, very cool. Although, for a 15 round shotty you might need to spend some time with "the shake weight" to bulk up for it. ;D
FQ13 who is both amused, and yet in lust. I am really looking forward to the debut. It should be entertaining at a minimum.
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:o :o :o :o
I want I want I want!
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I take back any negative comment I've ever made about Kel-Tec. May I have one please? ;) Sweet lord, if that thing is anywhere near affordable and reliable, I want one. Oviously, it looks like there is a lot of mechanical complexity to provide murphy points. Still, its very, very cool. Although, for a 15 round shotty you might need to spend some time with "the shake weight" to bulk up for it. ;D
FQ13 who is both amused, and yet in lust. I am really looking forward to the debut. It should be entertaining at a minimum.
+1 It's so ugly is beautiful!
Santa I'll be so much better this year.
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More Pictures on Oleg Volks website.
http://olegvolk.livejournal.com/958424.html
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I hate to be a "crowd follower", so I'll just have to find a way to get mine first ;D ;D ;D
If it does what it says it's gonna do well, looks like the one to have.
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Much more here:
http://gunmart.blogspot.com/2011/01/kel-tec-ksg-12ga-bullpup-shotgun.html
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NRA4Life has started a thread about this as well
http://www.downrange.tv/forum/index.php?topic=15095.new#new
My question is other than home defense what is it good for ?
Looks cool, but the dual feed idea has been around since at least the 80's, and with that short a barrel range will be limited. I do not see this taking off as it does nothing that can't already be accomplished with far more versatile, proven designs.
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An RFB shotgun. I really like the RFB and want to aquire one. The shotgun looks good but I'm thinkin' a recoil buffer pad or stock would be nice.
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My question is other than home defense what is it good for ?
You need another reason??? Range toy
Looks cool, but the dual feed idea has been around since at least the 80's, and with that short a barrel range will be limited. I do not see this taking off as it does nothing that can't already be accomplished with far more versatile, proven designs.
I agree it needs to be proven for SD use. But they will sell all that they can make, just for range toys.
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You need another reason??? Range toy
I agree it needs to be proven for SD use. But they will sell all that they can make, just for range toys.
I'm not so sure of that, with the economy the way it has been people have much less available money for "toys" that don't serve other practical purposes. Most of those who did spent it all on AR's and AK's.
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Depending on OAL, it might be a good addition to a go-bag....although ammo weight may be prohibitive.
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I don't know Tom, a whole lot of folks buy guns for SD. Why did you buy that .32 or your AR for that matter? If this is another $1800 special like their .308 bullpup than I agree it wlll go nowhere fast. If however they price it around $600-$800 like a Mossy or 870, I can see a whole lot of folks buying it. I mean hell, I didn't buy my pump to hunt ducks. I can even see it taking off with PDs. One tube with bean bags, one with buckshot and its easy to cary in a cusier. At 26" you could even conceal it in a trench coat very easiy (though that might be a bit hard to explain. ;D
FQ13
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I was thinking buck in one, slug in the other. No way would I mix non and lethal in the same gun.
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Thing is FQ, the only things it can be practical for are Home defense, or range blasting.
You can do exactly the same things with your $200 Maverick, which you can also use with replaceable barrels for Shotgun sports like Skeet or for various forms of hunting.
It's nothing but a case of latest/greatest fever.
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I was thinking buck in one, slug in the other. No way would I mix non and lethal in the same gun.
Agreed. But, you gotta admit it would give a whole new meaning to the phrase "do you feel lucky punk"? I can see it now "One of these tubes is bean bags. One is buck shot. I think the right tube is the bean bags, but maybe I'm wrong......" ;D
FQ13
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Agreed. But, you gotta admit it would give a whole new meaning to the phrase "do you feel lucky punk"? I can see it now "One of these tubes is bean bags. One is buck shot. I think the right tube is the bean bags, but maybe I'm wrong......" ;D
FQ13
LOL!
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Wow - a 14+1 shotgun. At the shop I work at handgun and defensive shotguns are still selling strong. AR and AK sales have slowed significantly. The Rock River AR's are still selling strong because of their packaging upgrades.
I see this Keltec shotgun as a very good home defense shotgun. However, I'm sure the price tag will be in the $1000 range when it first hits gun shops and decrease as supplies grow. That being said, who knows when it will actually be available. The RFB is still allocated and not shipping in great numbers.
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I like it! and sure would consider adding it to my shopping cart if the price is right.
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ok I need that
perfect for all the rabbits ;D
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From Keltec: "MSRP has not been officially been set, but we are looking at the $800.00 range."
That's put it a little over 600 retail around here.
http://www.keltecweapons.com/news/preview-kel-tec-shotgun-ksg (http://www.keltecweapons.com/news/preview-kel-tec-shotgun-ksg)
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I was thinking buck in one, slug in the other. No way would I mix non and lethal in the same gun.
For HD, I'd agree....but, for LEO's who have to do riot control, it would be a great tool...esp. if it can handle the Taser SG rounds. It'd be a great tool in the LEO toolbox.....
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For HD, I'd agree....but, for LEO's who have to do riot control, it would be a great tool...esp. if it can handle the Taser SG rounds. It'd be a great tool in the LEO toolbox.....
I was the one who suggesed, half tongue in cheek, but half seriously. It would give them an instant lethal/non-lethal choice. Still, the chance for an "oopsie" under stress would probably have department lawyers throwing themselves in front of trains before it happened. Maybe if they modified a LEO model selector into something close to idiot proof, but even there, I think most deparments would hesitate to green light it, because we all know what wil happen sooner or later. That's all a plantiff's lawyer will need to say.
FQ13
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For HD, I'd agree....but, for LEO's who have to do riot control, it would be a great tool...esp. if it can handle the Taser SG rounds. It'd be a great tool in the LEO toolbox.....
No agency in thier right mind would do that. one small mistake and not only will there will be public outrage, the office will also most likly be facing charges.
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It gives me actual pain to say this, but TAB is right. only an idiot would mix lethal and non lethal ammo in the same gun.
It's just as brilliant an idea as Russian roulette with the same result .
Oh yeah, FQ claimed credit ? ::)
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Anything that fires a high velocity projectile can be lethal. Remember the girl in Boston killed by the BPD with a paintball gun?
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Anything that fires a high velocity projectile can be lethal. Remember the girl in Boston killed by the BPD with a paintball gun?
Yes, I do remember that, but it wasn't a "paint ball gun", it was a 12 ga shot gun with a non lethal "bean bag" she was shot in the face with it and they used to have a problem with them not opening up .
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Did anyone ever think they'd get this excited about a shotgun?
For the record, I think it's cool! 8) Way to go Kel Tec!
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Yes, I do remember that, but it wasn't a "paint ball gun", it was a 12 ga shot gun with a non lethal "bean bag" she was shot in the face with it and they used to have a problem with them not opening up .
Postgame police projectile kills an Emerson student
O'Toole accepts responsibility but condemns acts of 'punks'
By Thomas Farragher and David Abel, Globe Staff | October 22, 2004
An Emerson College junior, drawn to Fenway Park to toast the first Red Sox pennant in 18 years, was killed yesterday, shot in the eye by a projectile fired by police seeking to disperse revelers who authorities said threatened to spin out of control.
Victoria Snelgrove, a 21-year-old journalism student from East Bridgewater, was struck by a pepper-spray-filled plastic ball at about 1:30 a.m., some 90 minutes after the Red Sox celebrated on the infield at Yankee Stadium, provoking an estimated 80,000 jubilant and mostly young fans to converge on Kenmore Square.
Police said they intended the pepper-spray balls, propelled by a compressed air system similar to those used in paintball guns, to be "less than lethal.
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I can't find it now but back in the late 80's or early 90's there was a case, I thought in Boston, somewhere narby, Police raided some apartment and shot some girl in the face with a bean bag from a shot gun and killed her.
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Let me chime in here and suggest an easy solution to this problem. I did mention a modifed LEO model kel-tec that had "idiot proof" selection between lethal and non-lethal tubes. (Again, it was half tongue in cheek because of the potential for tragic error). Timothy's post brings this closer to home. A good rule of thumb could be that an officer is NOT to fire a "non-lethal" projectile unless lethal force would be justified. Lots of folks have died from rubber bullets (aka Thatcher dlidos) around the world. Basically, if the ROE were don't fire if you aren't justified in killing, than the liability issue would vanish. It would be just a matter of discretion. Tear gas, pepperspray, tasers, batons would all be available for crowd control. But buckshot or a bean bag, the only question the officer would need to answer would be "was the shoot justified"? The particular projectile chosen would simply be a tactical call, much like shotgun vs pistol. Just a thought.
FQ13
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There is no such thing as idoit proof.
remington makes a 12 ga that is for just less then lethal stuff. its only got a 2.5" chamber. Just so no one can load a lethal round into it.
I don't know about all the LEA in the nation, but the ones around here have a policy, to not deploy less then lethal stuff unless there is a back up officer with thier gun in hand( rather its long gun or side arm)
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I noted in the description that the selector can be set to the right tube or the left tube or neither. The "neither" position would allow the slide to be racked without drawing a round from either tube. It was not stated in the description, but perhaps this would allow the chambering of a round manually?
So, shot in one tube, slug in the other and "non-lethal" in a carrier/bandolier. If the situation allows a non-lethal response, the extra time needed to manually load and the slower follow up shots would not be an issue.
I guess problems might arise if lethal rounds are also being carried, but with 14 loaded, only "non-lethal" could be carried outside the weapon.
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If a police force used this kind of gun as a lethal/less-lethal combo, I'd figure that they'd have some sort of extra safety (like a pin that has to be pulled or something) that would block the selector from being moved to the lethal tube without some kind of deliberate actions being used. This would eliminate the "Ooopsie" factor and save the city attorneys some headaches.....
....true, it might get some LEO's killed.....but, if it saves the political careers of the Mayor and the Chief of Police......
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Israeli troops routinely kill Palestinian rioters with "less than lethal" ammo. (rubber bullets )
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Less lethal, not less than lethal.
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NRA4Life has started a thread about this as well
http://www.downrange.tv/forum/index.php?topic=15095.new#new
My question is other than home defense what is it good for ?
Looks cool, but the dual feed idea has been around since at least the 80's, and with that short a barrel range will be limited. I do not see this taking off as it does nothing that can't already be accomplished with far more versatile, proven designs.
From what I read, it has an 18" barrel, witch is still long enough to get the job done with the right ammo on any other shotgun. So I don't see why this would be any different. Yes, you probably won't see anyone dove hunting with this because of the barrel length and magazine capacity. But I am looking forward to getting my hands on one for personal protection around my home.