The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Handguns => Topic started by: fightingquaker13 on January 10, 2011, 01:05:43 AM
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I have been semi considering a BFG in a 4" revolver. The goal would be to eventually match it with a lever carbine for bear stopping/hog hunting purposes. Sanity says go with .44 mag. It wins on all counts except for bears. Yet, and here is the sticking point, its easier and cheaper to find .45 Colt than .44 specials, which will be 99% of what gets shot from the thing. This is a low priority plan, but I would be curious to hear thoughts.
FQ13
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For where you live a .357 is enough for bears. It's not as if you are going to run into a Kodiak or Griz in little Havana.
The 454 was developed for BIG bears, (that were handled pretty well with 44 mags before that )
If you feel the urge for a big bore blaster I'd go with the .45 Colt the guns and ammo are less expensive, you can still get the 454 lever gun and shoot .45's in that.
Ask Haz about the Ruger's, he has the Redhawk, but a Vaquero and a Puma would make a nice pair.
Might even break your addiction to plastic ;D
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I guess I should have said that I'm thinking of getting a gig in Montana next summer. I'm a bit old to do the trout bum thing, but hey, in this economy? If you can't be prosperous you can at least have fun.My research job is drying up and I can do it from anywhere. The basic plan is to get a basic low wage gig selling ice cream in Jelly Stone or slinging hash and doing the paying work via computer, while I get to go trout fishing. Big bears are therefore an issue.
FQ13
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In the Ruger's you can load the .45 pretty darn hot. Same bullet as the 454 and at pistol range 1200f/s muzzle velocity might as well be a 454.
IIRC that is the load Haz was talking about. See what he has to say.
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Depends on the money you want to spend, if I were spending a lot of time in big bear country, I would get the S&W 500, .45 colt, .454 casull or .500 S&W with 400 + grain bullets. It is made in the 4" configuration with muzzle brake, but it does bark with the big dogs. Failing that, the Redhawk in .454 Casull would be a good choice, but man will it bounce you.
Check your PM's. ;D
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Why not a 6" barrel? Its not true what they say, an extra 2 inches makes all the difference!
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I'd go with the .454! I believe you can still shoot .44 in it. Stock up on .44 Special ammo when you see it...maybe have Wally World or your local GS order some for you. Or even reload some yourself.
JMHOFWIW
Richard
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smith makes a bear defense kit that has like a 2" snubby 500 and some bear spray in it pretty cheap.
I'm not sure which would hurt worse, a bear attak or shooting a 2" snubby 500. best option is hand the gun to the bear and have him shoot you. lol
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I'd go with the .454! I believe you can still shoot .44 in it. Stock up on .44 Special ammo when you see it...maybe have Wally World or your local GS order some for you. Or even reload some yourself.
JMHOFWIW
Richard
I wouldnt shoot a .44 in a .454 different chamber size etc To do so would not be the brightest thing imho.
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General rule. .45 Colt will work .454. Whereas .44 special will work in .44 mag. At least I think I'm right. If not, please correct me.
FQ13
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Uh, guys,
The .44spl and .44mag number are actually ~.429" not actually .44". The .45 and the .454Casull are the ~.451"
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Uh, guys,
The .44spl and .44mag number are actually ~.429" not actually .44". The .45 and the .454Casull are the ~.451"
Could you elaborate a bit Alf? (this is why I love this board, someone will know the answer). My experience with .44 mag is limited to a model 94 carbine. I sold it. Now I am looking for a hand gun/carbine combo. Can I shoot .45 Colt from a .454 Casull and .44 special from a .44 mag (revolver and lever for both). If not, please tell me.
Thanks
FQ13
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General rule. .45 Colt will work .454. Whereas .44 special will work in .44 mag. At least I think I'm right. If not, please correct me.
FQ13
Correct,
S&W 460 will also chamber .454 casull and .45 long.
Get one of them in a 4" barell and see how ya go LOL
Could you elaborate a bit Alf? (this is why I love this board, someone will know the answer). My experience with .44 mag is limited to a model 94 carbine. I sold it. Now I am looking for a hand gun/carbine combo. Can I shoot .45 Colt from a .454 Casull and .44 special from a .44 mag (revolver and lever for both). If not, please tell me.
Thanks
FQ13
You are correct.
I have a 44 in a 92 Lever and a Redhawk Revolver and can use both 44 rem mag and 44 Special in both.
The only thing to be aware of is some specific magnum reloads for rifle can exceed specs for a revolver. Any revolver load will work through both no probs.
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Could you elaborate a bit Alf?
I hate to break it to you FQ, but a .38 Special............it's really only .357" ;D ;D ;D
You're more likely to run into hogs than bears where you are. And I can tell you from experience trompin' around the upper Peace River basin, that hogs don't seem to mind .22lr and Palmetto Palms don't make good climbing trees.
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I have a scar on my leg( that I've posted a pic of) to show that even a 30.06 is not enough to drop a chargeing hog...
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Based on your question FQ I would go with the .454.
I am a .500 magnum guy. I have a six inch Performance Center with optics. It will drop a white tail at two hundred yards, and I have seen it used on Brown on the islands of Alaska (can't remember the show, but it was Tom Kelly from S&W). I have even talked to Tom Kelly about optics choices for mine. I want to use it on a black bear hunt some day provided I can do it in the States.
Down side of the .500 is that I can down load rounds, but I can't purchase lower power like using .45lc in a .454.
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Down side of the .500 is that I can down load rounds, but I can't purchase lower power like using .45lc in a .454.
http://www.ammo-one.com/500SmithWessomSpecial.html
Cor-Bon markets a .500 S&W Special load. Expensive as hell much like everything else associated with that round, but it's out there. Bill T.
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Your right...got mixed up a bit. I'd still go with the 454 Casull and probably some heavy Buffalo Bore (?) thumpers for bears and Cowboy loads for fun.
Richard
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Could you elaborate a bit Alf? (this is why I love this board, someone will know the answer). My experience with .44 mag is limited to a model 94 carbine. I sold it. Now I am looking for a hand gun/carbine combo. Can I shoot .45 Colt from a .454 Casull and .44 special from a .44 mag (revolver and lever for both). If not, please tell me.
Thanks
FQ13
Technally that is correct. However a 44 mag can be fired in a 45 colt revolver. Don't ask how I know. The brass bulged slightly and I heard the bullet ratteling down the 45 barrel. I no longer shoot both calibers at the same time. It is to easy to get the wrong bullet in the wrong gun. There was no damage done to the 45 (S&W).
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Could you elaborate a bit Alf? (this is why I love this board, someone will know the answer). My experience with .44 mag is limited to a model 94 carbine. I sold it. Now I am looking for a hand gun/carbine combo. Can I shoot .45 Colt from a .454 Casull and .44 special from a .44 mag (revolver and lever for both). If not, please tell me.
Thanks
FQ13
Absotively. I have (as y'all know) a Redhawk in .45 and a Rossi (PUMA) in .454. The Redhawk will only shoot the .45but the Rossi will handle either the .454 or the .45. The Ruger Alaskan .454 will also shoot both the .454 and the .45
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Going stir crazy and I've got FQ's question rattling around. I'm impressed with my 624 .44spl. The bullets are so-o-o-o-o big. Maybe I need to step up to a .45 also.
So I'm thinking my 624 needs a 625 Mountain model in 45 LC as a companion. Does the .454 Casull really gain that much over the LC? Of course the 460V would be the ultimate and shoot all three.
Hmmmm.m.m.m.m.m. My gun range owes me a purchase at cost+$50. Maybe this will be it.
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Seems to me the ammo for the 44s, and 45LC, would be easier to find than the 454 ammo. I reload for all but the 454, so either would be a good choice, but I don't see a big advantage, on hogs with the 454 over the 44mag. It's hard to beat a Super Blackhawk for a hunting pistol, and a Marlin in a matching caliber would make a nice field combo.
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Does the .454 Casull really gain that much over the LC?
In a word, yes. The .454 Casull operates SAFELY at Magnum bolt action rifle pressures. Near, and at times above 60,000 P.S.I. The .45 Colt was designed as, and still is a very low pressure revolver cartridge. Handloaders hot rod them to higher velocities and pressures, and a lot of nice guns have been damaged over the years exercising that process. You can get 1,500 horsepower out of a 350 Chevy V-8, but it will be at the expense of a very limited service life. A .45 Colt is no different. If you want a thumper, by all means go with the .454 Casull. That is what it was designed and built for. A downside to consider with the .454 Casull is brass life. It is expensive, and many only last one reload before cases start to split. Many will split on the first firing, rendering them unreloadable. Again, it is the price you pay for such high performance. Bill T.
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Either you guys are being nice to me, or no one noticed my faux paux, I said .500 Smith, meant the .460 Smith, so my statement was misleading. This has been a good subject and I realized that I am thinking like a city slicker and not a mountain man, my new statement, go with the .44 mag, I don't know what the heaviest bullet Walmart sells, but that is what I would buy, I am not sure that .454 or even .45 colt is available easily except through the big gunstores or private ones, you could get the cheapest Lee loader, buy a bunch of bullets and a lb of powder, come up with one good load and it would fit in a shaving kit. By cheapest I mean a 1 die does it all kit, you need a hammer or a rock, to hit it with, a powder dipper some cases and bullets and away you go, not fast, but if you only shoot 10 rds a week, your cool and will fit easily in your tent. If I could afford it, I would load 300 grn Barnes. Now instead of a pistol, how about a 92 carbine, ( be careful as some of them will not accept the longer 300 grn + bullets. ) I should say won't load them, they will fit in the magazine, just won't load in the chamber, My Rossi would not. So maybe a Marlin or Winchester. Get a 16" and cut it down to 26" overall, still enough butt stock and legal, and have someone make you a behind the back scabbard, as a trout fisherman you would not want to hip carry as you may be wading, so regardless of rifle or pistol, get a rig that keeps the rifle or pistol out of the water. Am I making sense?
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.............. you could get the cheapest Lee loader,............By cheapest I mean a 1 die does it all kit, you need a hammer or a rock, to hit it with, a powder dipper some cases and bullets and away you go, not fast, ..........
For those who don't know, such kits did exist. I loaded my first 50 rounds of .38 with a hammer and a single die. Yes, seating the primer with a hammer, rod and anvil was an adventure.
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They still are Alf, go to the Lee reloading sight and look up classic Lee loader. Sorry, my present set up does not show Urls.
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For those who don't know, such kits did exist. I loaded my first 50 rounds of .38 with a hammer and a single die. Yes, seating the primer with a hammer, rod and anvil was an adventure.
I started reloading in 1971 with Lee Loaders in several rifle and pistol calibers. I even started loading 12 Ga. shotgun shells on one. I still have them all, and would never sell them because of their compact size, along with the portability they offer in an emergency situation. Bill T.
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They still are Alf, go to the Lee reloading sight and look up classic Lee loader. Sorry, my present set up does not show Urls.
http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi/catalog/browse.cgi?1294946259.3705=/html/catalog/cleeloader.html
(http://www.leeprecision.com/graphics/shoppingcart/leeloader.jpg)
They also have a breechlock hand press.
http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi/catalog/browse.cgi?1294946259.3705=/html/catalog/rlpress1.html#HandPress
(http://www.leeprecision.com/graphics/shoppingcart/handpress.jpg)
As Benny said, stuck out in the wilderness, a shaving kit full of components would keep you in life-or-death ammo for a while.
I also agree on the .44 magnum. It is the better all around choice. It can be loaded heavy or light and as Bill pointed, probably has much longer case life for reloading.
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If that guy takes a dive backwards with that thing in his pocket, he'll be needing a Kidney transplant! ;D Bill T.
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If that guy takes a dive backwards with that thing in his pocket, he'll be needing a Kidney transplant! ;D Bill T.
Yeah, thought that too........of course, it could be tied to a long stick and used as a spear to catch supper. ;D