The Down Range Forum
Flying Dragon Productions ( Michael Bane ) => The Best Defense on My Outdoor TV => Topic started by: kamaaina1 on January 13, 2011, 10:16:08 PM
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Hey gang!
I currently own only one gun. It's a Sig P230. It's primarily used for home defense, but do take it out on occasion if I'm traveling. If traveling, I carry it in a fanny-pack holster.
My question is: What would be a better, first purchase; a laser grip, or a holster. I do plan on getting a second handgun, as budget permits.
Thanks for your input!!
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Holster ! Even if it's just an Uncle Mikes $10 pistol pocket.
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Holster ! Even if it's just an Uncle Mikes $10 pistol pocket.
Boycott Uncle Mikes - they sold out and moved to China. Blackhawk bought their old plant in Oregon and put over 200 workers that the former "Michaels of Oregon" put out of work to just be Uncle Mike's. Blackhawk makes basically the same holster for little to no more money. Buy the American made product. That being said I totally agree with Tom, get a holster. For a pistol as small as a 230 a basic, budget clip-on inside the pants should be fine for comfort and ease of carry.
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Holster!
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Definitely a holster....or three....you need something to carry it with....then buy lots of ammo and range time....the laser comes in dead last....
Boycott Uncle Mikes - they sold out and moved to China. Blackhawk bought their old plant in Oregon and put over 200 workers that the former "Michaels of Oregon" put out of work to just be Uncle Mike's. Blackhawk makes basically the same holster for little to no more money. Buy the American made product.
Thanks. I did not know that....now I'll not hesitate to buy Blackhawk's products....
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Definitely get a good quality HOLSTER!
Boycott Uncle Mikes - they sold out and moved to China. Blackhawk bought their old plant in Oregon and put over 200 workers that the former "Michaels of Oregon" put out of work to just be Uncle Mike's. Blackhawk makes basically the same holster for little to no more money. Buy the American made product. That being said I totally agree with Tom, get a holster. For a pistol as small as a 230 a basic, budget clip-on inside the pants should be fine for comfort and ease of carry.
I have used a SERPA CQC with my G27 for over two years now. I have great confidence in this design. In fact, I've been test driving a Blackhawk SERPA for my 1911 since Christmas......and I like it also. It really balances the feel of the extra weight of the 1911.
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Definitely a holster....or three....you need something to carry it with....then buy lots of ammo and range time....the laser comes in dead last....
Thanks. I did not know that....now I'll not hesitate to buy Blackhawk's products....
Uncle Mike's closed the plant in Oregon that made the budget line synthetic laminated holsters with the plastic clip and Blackhawk came in and re-opened the plant, hired everyone back and started making basically the same exact holster with the Blackhawk label on it. I can't swear to the fact of any of their other products being made in a certain location but I know they saved about 200 American jobs right there. My friends wife works there and can't praise Blackhawk enough.
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Definitely get a good quality HOLSTER!
I have used a SERPA CQC with my G27 for over two years now. I have great confidence in this design. In fact, I've been test driving a Blackhawk SERPA for my 1911 since Christmas......and I like it also. It really balances the feel of the extra weight of the 1911.
I'm a fan of Serpa's as well. I also own a couple pairs of Blackhawk boots which are some of the best I've ever owned, a couple of their higher end leather holsters and some assorted items like belts and a couple shirts. I'm not sure where its all made but it's all great quality gear and most of it I bought either on sale (boots were 1/2 price for a month, I got the first pair and liked them so much I ordered another) or through my friends wife who works for them. Great customer service as well.
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It doesn't even have to be a "quality" holster, the thing to remember is that most of the people you hear about shooting themselves with Glock's were not using holsters. The pistol starts sliding down their leg , they grab it and catch the trigger. BOOM, OOPSIES.
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Laser.
huh? Yep.. laser... based on the information you provided and the question you asked.
If it is primarily a home defense gun and you DO have a fanny pack that you already carry the gun in sometimes (and I'll roll the dice on assuming you actually have practiced with it and know how to deploy the gun efficiently), then the laser grip is going to expand the conditions under which you can use the gun for protection without much training or practice.... whereas the holster will not. Buying the holster then requires that you spend a pile of time (and some ammo) learning how to deploy the gun from the holster efficiently.
Now, the fact is that the Holster is a <$75 purchase and a laser grip is 3 to 4 times that is worth talking about. If you can magically pull other out of a box and get/do nothing else, the Laser instantly makes you "better", but you could probably pay for the holster, the range time and the ammo to get confident with it for what the Laser Grip costs. SO, if you WANT to carry in a holster, bite the kydex and spend $300 to own a good holster and pay for the time/ammo to (start to) get competent with it.
OTOH, as noted above.. if you HAVEN'T trained with your pistol and fanny pack, I agree that you should put the $$ towards a good defensive pistol course.
-RJP
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Laser.
huh? Yep.. laser... based on the information you provided and the question you asked.
If it is primarily a home defense gun and you DO have a fanny pack that you already carry the gun in sometimes (and I'll roll the dice on assuming you actually have practiced with it and know how to deploy the gun efficiently), then the laser grip is going to expand the conditions under which you can use the gun for protection without much training or practice.... whereas the holster will not. Buying the holster then requires that you spend a pile of time (and some ammo) learning how to deploy the gun from the holster efficiently.
Now, the fact is that the Holster is a <$75 purchase and a laser grip is 3 to 4 times that is worth talking about. If you can magically pull other out of a box and get/do nothing else, the Laser instantly makes you "better", but you could probably pay for the holster, the range time and the ammo to get confident with it for what the Laser Grip costs. SO, if you WANT to carry in a holster, bite the kydex and spend $300 to own a good holster and pay for the time/ammo to (start to) get competent with it.
OTOH, as noted above.. if you HAVEN'T trained with you pistol and fanny pack, I agree that you should put the $$ towards a good defensive pistol course.
-RJP
I said holster for 2 reasons. 1: you mentioned the cost difference. As small as the 230 is you can get a quality concealment holster for under (well under if you want) $50. You'd be much better to do that and put $250+ worth of ammo through the gun to increase your skills. I feel like to many people want to substitute technology (lasers etc.) for proper training. 2: you may carry in a fanny pack now but that isn't really a great carry option. Even with a lot of training it is still a slower and more obvious and deliberate presentation. Add to the fact that there are a lot of places that a fanny pack isn't really appropriate to the attire required. I just feel like a fanny pack carry is a last resort carry option, much better than leaving your pistol at home but one of the least desirable ways to take it with you.
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I have carried for more than 30 yrs. For the first 10yrs, it was as a LEO. The rest were with a CCW. I NEVER had a laser on a carry weapon until 4yrs ago.
A comfortable holster will afford a willingness to carry more, while a laser will make the "thought" of carrying more comfortable. Put the $$$ in a laser if you're "comfortable" with your skills, and in a holster if you are not.
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I think many of us missed the fact that he does not use Mexican carry, he uses a Fanny pack, which is a perfectly valid carry method.
I know I missed it.
That being the case, if it is a method he is comfortable and capable with there is no need for a holster.
But before he spends the money for a laser sight he needs to be entirely comfortable with his carry method.
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I'm going to agree with Rob.....
Laser if comfy and proficient with a fanny pack. If then you need to move to a holster, begin with a decent belt and chose a holster that provides the comfort to use it and not leave it at home. I think a good belt goes a long way towards making a less expensive holster, wear more comfortably.
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Tough question.
I have grown very partial to the Laser's on my guns.
They are a tremendous benefit on a firearm from training, particularly dry fire training, to any type of use, especially where quick target acquisition in all situations is required.
To me the question becomes: Would you get sights for your pistol or a holster.
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Personally I would get a new holster. I like lasers and would love to have them. However, every time I pick up a gun or a demonstrator with a Crimmson Trace I have issues with them. The way my "bear paws" wrap around a grip I tend to have a hard time activating the light. If I am going to have a laser I want a laser that is turned on when I need it. Even though I can get my grip adjusted to get it on, I don't want to wonder about that when or if I really need it. Just like the gun needs to go bang every time you pull the trigger the light needs to come on every time I grip the grip.
After that long intro I recommend that you get the laser. You have them, and you like them. Get a laser!
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It's all about personal comfort (mental, not physical) and confidence.
I don't know what the knocks are on the fanny pack holster. I've had the same one made by Blackhawk for over a decade now and it works great (I also have a Serpa, so I have experience with that as well). It doesn't matter if you're in shorts, jeans, cold or hot weather. Unless you're going somewhere in a suit, it works. As for presentation, if you have a IWB holster cover by a tucked in shirt, it will take you just as long. I wear the fanny pack on my front right hip. I am willing to bet I can pull the tab and present just as quickly as most other holsters (I know there are people much faster than me, just making a generalized statement from my personal observations). If you are at the point of utilizing your sidearm, then being more or less obvious and deliberate are mute (this is not generalized, but experience from mulitple tours in Iraq).
I've also used my old style P220 for over the last decade. My wife knows how to use the pistol, but her eyes aren't as good as mine (which is probably why she married me!). A laser grip was a great decision for us. It allowed me quicker acquisition and more confident applications from different positions, and even more so for my wife.
If something is comforatable for you, and already works, then stick with it. I would recommend the laser as it will just enhance your confidence with what you are already comfortable using. Maybe it's just the military in me, but I'm all for not messing with what works for people, but adjusting to improve confidence when available. I'm not debating what's better or not, quicker or not, or anything else. Just advocating using the individuals area of confort to the best possible end.