The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: m25operator on March 25, 2007, 08:16:08 PM
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HOME GUNSMITHING. I wonder if any forum members would be interested in a gun mechanics thread or forum. I am a home gunsmith, yes I do it for money, and mainly for myself, but no, I'm not looking for new customers. I interested in trading secrets, for cleaning, repair and substantial accuracy improvements on any firearm, hell, air guns for that matter. I have invested in a knee mill, and lathe, bead blast cabinet etc.. so I'm more than a shade tree gunsmith, i am a certified glock armorer, but that is like being a Maytag repairman. I am home schooled, but have a lot of knowledge.
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If you find a forum get this guy involved.
http://www.blindhogg.com/
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I am always interested in gunsmithing.some sort of GunsmithTips Section or something.
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Alas, my guns are like my cars...I can drive them, but I can't repair them. :-\
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I do a bit of my own work and some for others, but I wouldn't by any means consider myself a 'smith. I have preserved an old Colt SAA revo and a little work on a poorly handled vet 1911 for the same guy and just finished bebiulding and re-finishing a supposed war vet Browning HP. (Before I get shot for re-finishing the Browning, it had to be done. The previous owner did little or nothing to take care of the gun in the first place, and was nearly rusted shut. I actually had to tap the slide off the frame.)
I did a little trigger work on the BHP (brought the trigger down from 10 pounds (according to my crude scale) to 5 pounds using the same scale).
I have played with several of my non-carry guns and a few minor things to one of my carry's (ambi-safety, yes I am one of those lefties).
I enjoy doing it almost as much as I enjoy shooting to the point that after one job is done, I am looking for another project.
In all, I have worked on 2 Colts, 1 Browning, 1 AMT .380 Back-up, and 1 Springfield 1911. If money was better, I would have many more project guns, parts, and tools.
One of these days. To answer the original posters question: Yes, I would like to see something where tips and tricks could be shared, there is a lot for me to learn.
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HOME GUNSMITHING. I wonder if any forum members would be interested in a gun mechanics thread or forum. . .
I am not a 'smith, and do not try anything I am really not comfortabe with, so my interest would be to the extent of , what could I logically do (at the primary or first echelon level) regarding touch-ups, repairs, buffing, etc.
For example, my logic tells me for burrs or snags on a slide/rails, use a whole lot of caution and a little bit of sharp file.
There probably a fairly good size crew with the knowledge and expertise to address these type issues, but may not be alearning experience for those more experienced.
Just my $.02 (Amercian , that is)
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Alright, I kinda like where this going. How about we start off with tips and techniques. I am going to throw a few out there and see if you lilke.
1) Ever take a gun apart and can't figure out how something go's back in, especially if during disassembly, you pulled out pin a, and part p flew out under spring pressure. Go to www.brownells.com
and pick schematics, they have big selection and show the parts in relation to where they belong. I would recommend you go there and print up any gun you currently own, and file it away for future use. It is free. Also go to their gunsmithing newsletter, a lot of good articles on fitting to refinishing.
2) If you shoot lead bullets, get a Lewis lead remover!!!
3) Want to get the marks off the front of the cylinder from firing, product under several names, ( lead away, miracle cloth, wipe away. ) a yellow cloth that can be reused for a long time if resealed in a zip lock bag. It will also clean a .22 rimfire barrel better than anything I have ever used. Clean one with your normal routine, then cut some patches out of this cloth and run it through the bore, it will come out black. When it does'nt come out black anymore, run a clean patch through and look through the bore. You will be impressed. Warning: it will remove nickel finish, nothings perfect.
4) let's get some questions and answers going.
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Alright, I kinda like where this going. How about we start off with tips and techniques. . .
3) Want to get the marks off the front of the cylinder from firing, product under several names, ( lead away, miracle cloth, wipe away. ) a yellow cloth that can be reused for a long time if resealed in a zip lock bag.
The yellow lead-away cloth. Will continued use of it harm the blued or satin stainless-steel finishes on weapons?
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The yellow wipe-away type cloths will absolutely take a blued finish down to the bare metal if you try hard enough. Any typical satin stainless gun will stand up to quite a bit, but I wouldn't try it on a bright polish stainless. Otherwise, a shot of PB penetrating oil will loosen most of the carbon/fouling buildup and allow it to be wiped off; it's almost magic on Remington 1100/87 magazine tubes. A good material for cleaning very light rust from blued guns is Pre Lim, a paste cleaner similiar to automotive rubbing compound. I wouldn't get too concerned about the blackening on the face of the cylinder, assuming there isn't a buildup that would cause any binding. If you did buy the gun to shoot, spend that time shooting, dry firing, reloading so you can shoot some more, etc.
Anyway, it's just going to get dirty again after the first cylinder.
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4) let's get some questions and answers going.
I have a nice Remington Model 1900KED, 12 gauge side-by-side shotgun. I want to clean it up well, and am thinking about using Ezzox for cleaning the exterior of the Damascus wrapped barrels. The finish is in the 90% + / - range.
Is it better to leave the remaining brown color intact? Or, scrub it hard as I have seen at some shows?
Thanx, Richard
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Honestly, a 90+ year old shotgun with a 90% finish. Save it as it is, brown patina is natural and expected after so many years, clean it and preserve it, I have not used ezzox, so cannot comment on it. Is the finish smooth? When you wipe it with an gun oil wetted patch or rag, does it show up brown?
If it does come up brown, some surface rust may be there. If hardly any brown comes off, it's just natural aging of the original blue finish. Original finish has a higher value than refinished on a collectable that old.Just in case you don't know, damascus barrels were meant for black powder and should never be shot with modern ammunition!!! My favorite cleaners and preservatives/lubricants are ( not necessarily in order ) hoppes #9, shooters choice original, fp10 lubricant, rem oil lubricant, kroil for loosening powder fouling, jb bore cleaner after the kroil on rifles, followed by fp10 or remoil for lubricant and preservative. Congrats on having such a fine old shotgun.
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I really think that would be a very usefull forum.
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4) let's get some questions and answers going.
A question on functional durability of weapon finish -
I'm anticipating purchase of a pistol available in Blued, Matte Stainless or Polished Stainless. Discounting looks and presentation for the moment, which of the three finishes should retain the finish best (show less wear) through normal wear patterns relating to holstering and cleaning?
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Bill Laughridge at Cylinder & Slide once wrote that I should be banned by federal law from owning a Dremel tool. He was right, too.
Michael B
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As far as a finish, well there are many. But from the 3 you mentioned, matte stainless has it's merits, but is hard to touch up without a bead blaster, polished stainless is easier to touch up, by buffing, and does not show holster wear, but does show light scratching more. You did not mention, brushed stainless, it can be touched up with fine scotch brite pads, going in the direction of the original finish lightly, and since the finish is actually fine scratching, it hides scratches pretty well. Some of the synthetic finishes like robar, metalloy, armalloy, hard chrome etc... are very resistant to holster wear and scratching, but cannot be touched up at home. A good commercial blue finish is usually easily touched up with good quality cold blues when the time comes to pass the gun on, but normal wear and tear on something you own to use is only cosmetic, a tool that is used often is going to show some handling, it's how it works that counts. Personally I like brushed stainless.
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Personally I like brushed stainless.
M25 - thanx for your time and the commentary -
Crescendo
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Alright, I kinda like where this going. How about we start off with tips and techniques. I am going to throw a few out there and see if you lilke.
Looks like things are slowing down a bit - it seems I'm the only one willing to admit I don'y know everything?
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Looks like things are slowing down a bit - it seems I'm the only one willing to admit I don'y know everything?
Sorry Crescendo, I'm way ahead of you there...cause I don't know nothing! I'm sure (if I tried) drop-in parts wouldn't work for me.
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Sorry Crescendo, I'm way ahead of you there...cause I don't know nothing! I'm sure (if I tried) drop-in parts wouldn't work for me.
Touch`e - - I understand that ;D
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Sorry Crescendo, I'm way ahead of you there...cause I don't know nothing! I'm sure (if I tried) drop-in parts wouldn't work for me.
Don't feel bad, it took me two weeks to get a "drop in" ambi safety to work right on my 1911. Now that it is in, it is one of the crispest safties I have felt, both going on and coming off. There is a really sweet, distinct click when that safety comes off.
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That's the kind of topic I'm looking for, glad you accomplished it , but I might have helped you out. There is a wealth of knowledge on this forum, try it.
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Heres a few more tips.
1) Ever have stuck scope ring screws? Next time use a pair of needle nose vise grips, and a leather pad, about 1/8'' thick, cut into a strip slightly wider than the plier jaws. clamp down on the edge of
the ring to bring the ring gap tighter on that side. Just to the side of the screw that won't loosen. The
leather will not scratch the finish, and this takes stress off the screw. If that does'nt work. Use a soldering iron with a small tip, and place the tip on top of the screw, until you see grease, oil or lock tite start bubbling out of the bottom. Some scope rings are rounded near the screw and this technique is not as effective. Also if you have allen head screws that feel loose to the wrench like it's going to round out, use some valve lapping compound in the hole, the abrasive in the compound helps grip better.
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Heres a few more tips.
M25 - I'm contemplating replacing the Guide Rod (with a beefier stainless model) and recoil spring on an alloy frame SIG P220. Under normal conditions, is this considered a "drop in" action, with only full fire function testing involved? Or, is there a need / benefit for fitting of some sort?
Thanx, Crescendo
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Normally it is a drop in procedure. Guide rods come normally in 3 types. 1 piece, 2 piece and captured.
1 piece rods should just drop in. 2 piece rods are normally threaded together and may make disassembly slower and if not properly tensioned could come loose while firing and lock the pistol up. If anyone uses a 2 piece, check the tension regularly. Captured guide rods, have the spring and rod together as a module. and the recoil spring won't shoot the guide rod away if it gets loose from you. After installing any of these, work the slide by hand ( empty gun of course ) 20 times and feel for any binding. Disassemble and inspect the guide rod, frame and slide for any abnormal rub marks, if any are present, you can send that one back, or perhaps polish what you have. Quality parts will usually not have this problem. Now go to the range and shoot 50 rounds through it, unload it and inspect it again. If all is well you are probably home free.
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Normally it is a drop in procedure. . . . Quality parts will usually not have this problem. . . . If all is well you are probably home free.
Thanx M - I appreciate the guidance -
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bump to get this crap off of here -
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4) let's get some questions and answers going.
I've a few SIG's I shoot fairly regularly - I have been using TW25B grease on the rails and slide to assure sufficient lubrication. My 'normal' range visit encumbers from 100 - 250 rounds, and the TW25B has performed flawlessly.
I plan on taking two SIG P220's to the range next visit, and plan to run 500 rounds each through each pistol. I purchased some Enos's Slide-Glide and plan to test it against the TW25B. If anyone has done a similar test I would appreciate your results and comments.
Thanx, Richard
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Good evening from Texas , Richard.
I have never heard of the lubricant your using, I would like to know more about it, and also I have never used slide glide, but I think Brian Enos is a straight shooting kind of guy. Theres so much out there that I stick with things I know work, even though the new stuff might be superior. My number one lube is FP10, but it does'nt stop there, moly products like dry slide is great too, especially for dirty rounds like .22 lr. A wet lube can catch things like dirt, or unburnt powder, and .22's leave alot of powder residue. I also use a paste called action magic by Brownells, that I coat internals with, it is a moly paste that can act like a trigger job, it's very slick. Rem oil is a good lube as well. Military LSA, at least I Think thats what it's called is a teflon based lube and it's very good. You want lubrication = slippery, and protection, anti corrosion and moisture barrier. But what works in 30-110 degree heat may not work in -30 degree cold, eg.. Alaskan hunting or worse. Since your going to be shooting Sig's,
they will probably work any way you go, but the lube will protect and prolong your investment. Now go wear them out. Let us know how your TW25 B WORKS.
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Hi guys,
I have purchased a FEG PA63 in 9x18. It is reccommened on several Makarov forums to change to a Wolf 13# or 17# recoil spring to lessen felt recoil and to help protect the aluminum frame. ( Aluminum titanium frame alloy) Also, they reccommend to change the main spring to an 11# spring to lesen the trigger pull.
BTW, I love the little PA63, 100 rounds and no misfire and fairly accurate in SA, however, it's light weight is rough on the hand. It weighs about 20 oz. laoded
My question is in reference to changing springs. In your opinion should I do it and what strength spring for the slide 13# or 17# I feel changing the main spring is a no brainer.
I wonder if the 17# spring would affect the way the pistol ejects casing? The springs are cheap, 9.00 for the recoil spring and 7.50 for the main spring.
Best regards,
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I have never heard of the lubricant your using, I would like to know more about it, . Let us know how your TW25 B WORKS.
M25 - sorry for the late response - now that it is decent weather, I'm catching up on my Honey-Do list.
Here is a link to the Mil-Comm site for the TW25 products: http://www.mil-comm.com/
SIG Arms has recently adopted placing a small container of the TW25B Grease in with their new pistols - their recommended lube for the slide / rails, barrel, locking mechanism, and most things moving. I have not yet gotten to the range for the TW25B / Slide-Glide comparison, but I have about 4000 rounds through 6 SIG pistols, some all stainless , some with alloy frame.
A decent application for the range seems to be a bit of the TW25B Grease applied with a brush such that the white grease just appears to be white grease and would definitely leave fingerprints if touched.. For carry, a little bit less works well, although I have never had theTW25B applied sufficiently thick to run off the weapon. Even if the grease were to dry after setting a several weeks, it still does the job well - some affectionados simply top the grease with a touch of oil , however, I prefer to keep it lube consistent and ready to go.
I should be getting tio the range soon, and I have the Enos Slide Glide products: Slide Glide Lite (Light Viscosity); and Slide Glide #1 (Medium Viscosity). They also have the High Viscosity Slide Guide (Thick) which I believe is for use in West Texas during the summer months. ;)
I will post my results and thoughts after the shoot.
Richard