The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: Jkwas on January 28, 2011, 08:42:12 PM
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Well, it looks like now Egypt is in chaos the mainstream media has forgotten about gun control for the time being. Thank goodness our tv news has ADHD and tunnel vision :o NEXT!
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You can bet that the ATF hasn't forgotten >:(
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Obummer is telling Mubarak that he has to give in to the Muslim BrotherHood, those bastards have been causing trouble and committing terrorism (mostly against other muslims and Arabs, ) since the late 20's or early 30's.
And now there are protests in Jordan. ( Funny thing, the Muslim brotherhood has hated the Royal family there since it was Palastine, they killed the first king in front of his son, the Father of the present king. )
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They may be bastards, but they are our bastards. :P Problem is, its Iran redux. You support a secular tyrant, and the religious opposition becomes the only game in town. I'd doubt two in ten of the protestors want Sharia, but its what they'll get. Its like Central America in the '80s. We supported right wing despots. The commies were the only alternative in places like Nicargua and El Salvador. We are stuck defendig A-holes because the other guys are worse. It doesn't make me lose sleep, but its a hard sell diplomatically.
FQ13
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They may be bastards, but they are our bastards. :P Problem is, its Iran redux. You support a secular tyrant, and the religious opposition becomes the only game in town. I'd doubt two in ten of the protestors want Sharia, but its what they'll get. Its like Central America in the '80s. We supported right wing despots. The commies were the only alternative in places like Nicargua and El Salvador. We are stuck defendig A-holes because the other guys are worse. It doesn't make me lose sleep, but its a hard sell diplomatically.
FQ13
They are not, and never have been our bastards. We supported the people they were trying to kill, Abdullah I and II, Israel, and Sadat.
These are also the people who were killing tourists in Egypt.
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They are not, and never have been our bastards. We supported the people they were trying to kill, Abdullah I and II, Israel, and Sadat.
These are also the people who were killing tourists in Egypt.
I was refering to the current governments as "our bastards", same with Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and the UAE.
FQ13
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Has anyone seen Robert Duval lately?
(http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e330/m58/M17121263.jpg)
I think he might have run off and become President of Egypt ;)
Between work and family stuff I have been out of touch for a few days. Color me embarrassed the other evening when someone brought up Egypt, and I had no idea what they were talking about. I had seen some riots on the tv's as we were waiting at bars for our table a couple times, but having never been able to read the roll or hear the sound I was out of touch. Time to catch up on the world!
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I was refering to the current governments as "our bastards", same with Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and the UAE.
FQ13
Oh. :-[
In that case I have to agree with your point that we support "our bastards" because they are better than the other bastards.
But if you want an example of what happens when we don't pick a bastard to support just look at Somalia, or Rwanda.
This was one of the benefits of the "Cold War". Every place in the world was of interest to one side or the other, therefore they attracted attention from both sides trying to counter each others influence. The cash paid to separate sides helped the people because the politicians couldn't steal it all and continuing the "investment gave the more civilized countries (US , USSR & to a lesser extent China ) some influence in keeping the atrocities to a reasonable level.
The root of many of the problems in Africa, (Somalia, Liberia, Rwanda, etc ) was that with the end of the open confrontation between Super Power's no one had any stake in maintaining stability in these places. From a view point of pure national interest, who really gives a crap what happens in Darfur, or Sierra Leone ? Honestly ? No one except NGO's who owe their existance to the continuing mis fortune of these people.
Has anyone seen Robert Duval lately?
(http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e330/m58/M17121263.jpg)
I was thinking Omar Sharif . ;D
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you know we give egypt about 1.5 billion a year in aid...
???
we need to stop givng out aid.
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you know we give egypt about 1.5 billion a year in aid...
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we need to stop givng out aid.
If the Muslim Brotherhood takes power we sure as hell should. That might see them gone. No one is these countries is really protesting for religion, its all about pocket book stuff. The radicals are just taking advantage. Let folks know that if Jihad-is-Us takes power, the money stops.
FQ13
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Which brings up the question of "If we are broke, why are we giving out aid to other countries?"
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Which brings up the question of "If we are broke, why are we giving out aid to other countries?"
Its to buy good will of course. Just look at Afghanistan. We were the Taliban's number one sourse of humanitarian aid pre-911 they were grateful. The Egyptians love us, every one of them, and the Israeli's always do as they are told. Hell, nothing guarantees a big hug quite like wearing an American flag t-shirt in almost any country we give aid to. See how well its working? ::) I'm with Rand Paul here, cut all the bastards off except for very targeted programs.
FQ13
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Just pay them to stay there and play nicely--or at least not drag us into the fight. Suez canal and the oil pipeline keep our interest.
I think if we cold-turkey stopped paying any aid the world would actually stop going around.
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I got interrupted before I finished my last thought, but you two touched on it ...
It's an extortion payment!
Just like giving the school yard bully your milk money >:(
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I got interrupted before I finished my last thought, but you two touched on it ...
It's an extortion payment!
Just like giving the school yard bully your milk money >:(
No, actually a large chunk of it is military aid so they can can intimidate Libya.
More like giving the bully a bat so he will split the other kids lunch money with you. ;D
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No, actually a large chunk of it is military aid so they can can intimidate Libya.
More like giving the bully a bat so he will split the other kids lunch money with you. ;D
The upside (?) is that they have to spend that on our stuff, so its basically the equivilent of us giving them a Sears card. Still, I think Israel can afford its own weapons, and as for the rest, I really don't care.
FQ13
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The upside (?) is that they have to spend that on our stuff, so its basically the equivilent of us giving them a Sears card. Still, I think Israel can afford its own weapons, and as for the rest, I really don't care.
FQ13
No, we don't give them cash to buy our gear. We give them the gear and the value is counted as "aid money".
The socialists claimed during the Cold war that we distributed far more weaponry than the Soviet's based on comparative value.
This was a classic case of "lies, damned lies, and statistics".
We gave Naval vessel's, modern air craft, radar systems, and other high cost items by the dozen. The Soviets on the other hand were passing out small arms like AK's, and RPG's by the thousands, and ammo by the millions to any one who asked.
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No, we don't give them cash to buy our gear. We give them the gear and the value is counted as "aid money".
The socialists claimed during the Cold war that we distributed far more weaponry than the Soviet's based on comparative value.
This was a classic case of "lies, damned lies, and statistics".
We gave Naval vessel's, modern air craft, radar systems, and other high cost items by the dozen. The Soviets on the other hand were passing out small arms like AK's, and RPG's by the thousands, and ammo by the millions to any one who asked.
Sad fact (or maybe encouraging fact) is that even though we won the Cold War, I still think they got more bang for the buck. All the guys withe F16s and and tanks are scared spitless of the guys with the $200 AKs and $1000 RPGs. It seems we could have saved some serious money. :-\
FQ13
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you know we give egypt about 1.5 billion a year in aid...
???
we need to stop givng out aid.
Hear you 5 by 5
Our lovelly Prime Minister aka red headed clown, has just given us a new tax called the Flood Levy, basically if you earn over 50k you pay an extra 1% tax if over 100k 2% under 50 nothing. This is to raise nearly 2 billion for rebuild qld from the recent floods.
What shits me is that we give over 4 billion to Africa and the Middle east in aid, well pardon moi for being a un caring non sensitive bastard but screw them, if she wants to use money for charity then dont raise taxes, reduce govt overseas aid to these despot piss ant camel jockey infested flea bag lice ridden ass ends of the world first.
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Hear you 5 by 5
Our lovelly Prime Minister aka red headed clown, has just given us a new tax called the Flood Levy, basically if you earn over 50k you pay an extra 1% tax if over 100k 2% under 50 nothing. This is to raise nearly 2 billion for rebuild qld from the recent floods.
What shits me is that we give over 4 billion to Africa and the Middle east in aid, well pardon moi for being a un caring non sensitive bastard but screw them, if she wants to use money for charity then dont raise taxes, reduce govt overseas aid to these despot piss ant camel jockey infested flea bag lice ridden ass ends of the world first.
Charity begins at home.
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Charity begins at home.
Honestly sledge, that sems like a solid argument to make. Generally I'm as anti tax as anyone, but when there is a manifest need such as y'all have, I'll suck it up (assuming there is a plan to spend it effeciently and an expiration date on the tax). Still, it seems that Austrlia could and should take the simple step of just suspending all foriegn aid until your current crisis is dealt with. I know the dogooders would scream, but why is it so radical simply to say "Sorry, but we've pressing needs at home and until we'e fixed our own mess we can't afford to gve"? Its no different than cutting back on charitable contributions during a period of unemployment. You just can't give this year, sorry. It seems like any politician who advocated that would get a huge following.
Q13
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I just can't see raising money for any cause by holding a gun to your citizen's heads and forcing them to contribute, and that is exactly how I view taxation, as being Right in any manner, no matter how "good" the cause is.
If folks think it is a worthy cause, they will contribute, if not, that is their business also. Do we need to post the Davey Crockett piece again?
Not only is it morally wrong, it is a waste of the money contributed. I don't think I would have many arguments with my saying that the folks who need it would be lucky to get 50 cents of every dollar contributed after all the bean counting all the way to the capitol and then back out to the needy.
Again, let the local/national charities handle this. That is what they do and if they do a lousy job of it, folks will give their contributions to a group that will do a good job.
And, yes, the government should get out of foreign aid. There are international charities to handle that also. Maybe military aid for strategic allies but I'll let someone else discuss that.
BTW, I just read that we send economic aid to China. Not a lot, $65 million a year, but why do we send any to a country that charges us interest to loan us back the money we gave them gratis?
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Administering charities is why Churches don't pay taxes.
If the Govt. has to do it for them then they should be taxed just like any other business.
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There is a reason why I only donate time/money to groups that I personally know.
there are 4 in town that I will donate too. 2 sports related, 1 teen homeless shelter, the 4th makes prosthsis for children and vets.
All of them local all of them have no employees and 100% of the funds goes to those they are trying to help.
None of the "beg" either, they have fund raisers. I ran a tourny for one 2 weeks back, we ended up making about 12k off it. :)