The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: Bigpops on March 03, 2008, 01:36:56 PM
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Ok...please don't shoot me (pardon the pun) but I am new to all of this and there are several terms I need help on. I have run search's but no joy. If you all would be so kind PLEASE help me with these questions;
1. What is a "single stack" and a "double stack", or what is the difference? (please don't just answer with "two")
2. In regards to Para USA....how does a LDA compare to a single action, or double action for that matter?
3. Again in regards to Para...why do most of their 1911's come in 45 only?
Ok, I said I was new so please don't beat me up to bad.
BP
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WELCOME
1a) Single stack refers to a single column magazine were all the rounds are on top of each other vertically.
1b) Double stack refers to a twin column magazine were the rounds are staggered on top of each other, to increase magazine capacity.
2) I like the LIGHT DOUBLE ACTION, it's not as light as a well tuned single action, although one of my LDA'S trips at 2lbs, and it's much lighter than any other double action semi-auto I have tried, the hammer spring is pre-compressed, and so you don't have that additional weight to go against.
3) Para makes 1911's in 9mm, .38 super, 40 S&W, and .45 acp.
;D
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Bigpops,
Welcome!!! Don't be affraid to ask questions. We all enjoy helping and informing, and sometimes we even learn because we're to embarassed.
Your question on 1911's needs to be sent to every gun maker in the nation! I have often wondered why they can't make stock guns in other calibers instead of making us buy more parts. On the other hand, the hours spent customizing can save money by giving "gun time" without actually burning ammo.
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Hey Bigfella...maybe they make 1911's in .45 mostly because it's a really FUN round to shoot!
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Hey Bigfella...maybe they make 1911's in .45 mostly because it's a really FUN round to shoot!
OOOOOH yes they are! And I believe (If I'm wrong I will here about it) that when the Army first adopted this fine firearm back some 75 years ago that was the caliber they chose because the .38 was not doing the job . and the .45 did.
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BIGPOPS. You will find that if you hang around here long enough. You'll find a wealth of knowledge here on all subjects and even when a subject has been brought up more than once,you'll still get an answer to your questions so don't be afraid to ask. There are good people here on the DRTV forum. Stick around it only gets better. WELCOME ;D ;D
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Bigpops:
Take it from another newbie, this is one of the best sites i've found. I haven't had experience with Para and I was curious about LDA myself.
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Thank you very much! I sort of figured it had to do with the magazine but was not sure. Now I know!
ALSO...thanks for the welcome. I was expecting a lot of "do a search stupid" or other nice responses. Again, thank you!
OK, now that I have a free "newbie pass", another question. On the range....what are the advantages and disadvantages of a single action, double, or LDA?
Ohhh, one more. I have been watching Todd Jarrett training videos, along with several others. How in the world do they control muzzle jump the way they do?
Ok, I have used up my frequent newbie points....
BP
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a single action, double, or LDA?
That's actually a big question. A lot of it is preference. In general, double action has a harder trigger pull (more pounds to pull it) which can affect your aim. A revolver in DA could be a ten or twelve pound trigger pull where a 1911 (SA) is typically around 4 pounds. The harder you have to yank on the trigger the less accurate you will be.
LDA is just what it says, "Light Double Action". If you can get to a range where you can try a few different guns thats the BEST thing you can do, because it's all about what you feel comfortable with and what you feel safe in handling or carrying.
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Muzzle jump? Every shooter practices to overcome it. Some, like me, with less success than others. Number one suggestion is getting a good master hand grip. Firm, but sustainable. Your support hand, during recoil, adds weight against rise, so keep'em together. I often see shooters let go of the grip with the support hand during recoil, especially on the big boomers.. Stay tight on follow through.
Next is stance. As you watch the training videos, notice the weight distribution and shoulder roll adopted during firing, all designed to absorb the energy directed back at the shooter. Good shooters have developed muscle memory to counteract the recoil effect and speed the return to on target. That is where I run into problems.
Anticipating the recoil too much will affect your ability to maintain proper aim and follow through. Being too relaxed and pulling off an unanticipated shot will be more accurate, but won't allow your muscle memory to get involved untill full recoil takes effect and more time is required to return to the target. It is that magic blend of anticipation and surprise that makes a great shooter. New shooters always get the same advice. Remember, BRASS. Breath, Relax, Aim, Squeeze Slowly. The muscles will learn, speed will come, recoil becomes controllable. Fun breaks out. Keep shooting. Mac.
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Ohhh, one more. I have been watching Todd Jarrett training videos, along with several others. How in the world do they control muzzle jump the way they do?
BP
Three things I've learned that they do:
1. Equipment - Their guns are tweaked as far as they can based on the rules for the match. Everything from trigger jobs, to recoil springs, to compensators. But most importantly, they are clean and reliable. They go bang everytime they pull the trigger;
2. Ammo - If you look at their web sites many will have a "gun safe or gun room." They shoot the smallest possible caliber for the match. They will in some cases even reload their own to raise the power on a smaller caliber or lower the power on a larger to eliminate as much as possible. An example would be my open gun - standard .45 acp uses a 230 grain bullet going 825 feet per second, and I load mine with 155 grain going 1200 feet per second. Way higher power, but much lower recoil;
3. Technique and Practice - One of the top shooters I saw (watch on a video I have to help me improve) says all the equipment (and trick ammo) won't help you be great. It will help shave that extra 1/10th second that at the top can mean the difference between 1st and 5th, but it won't replace hard work. Watch the good guys, buy some DVD's of tips and techniques, find the style that fits you best, and practice, practice, practice ... I have heard a lot of guys that dry fire on the TV or pictures around the room, I have heard of guys that put up post-it-notes on the wall and dry fire practice on them. Rob Leatham says he practices on the screw heads on wall switch and outlet cover plates! I guess it is the idea of "aim small - miss small."
You are new to one of the most addicting hobbies I have ever seen. Just like those that will sit for hours doing needlework, tinkering in the shop on engines and cars, or those that bang nails into wood to make crafts, you will find yourself cleaning your guns, reloading ammo, practicing draws in front of the mirror, practicing eye movement and following with the gun on anything mounted to the family room wall, and burning more ammo than you though existed. You will also meet some of the nicest people you ever imagined existed, and you will compete against people that care just as much about your enjoyment as their winning.
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Wow...you guys are awesome..Thank you!
Yep, it is safe to say I am hooked. I have been an archer for years now. I bowhunt and have shot competitively. The fun sort of went away when I started meeting more ego's than avid bowmen. It became more about the score and equipment than the good natured competion and fellowship. But...i still love my bowhunting.
I spent most of my life shooting but it usually involved rifles. Spending 20 years in the Navy always gave me the itch but I was not required to shoot much as an aviation dude. (they are afraid we would sink something with a misplaced shot)
Now...hmmm, I have got it bad. Seems like a great group of people and heck...I guess I need another "addiction" to throw my kids inheritance at!
I own a Sig P226 40 S&W. Love the gun! But you all know how it goes....I NEED MORE! (excuse to get a bigger safe)
I just built my own rifle and pistol range and I want a 1911 model gun to shoot up my new steel targets! I am torn between Para, Kimber, S&W, and of course a Sig in 45 cal.
Inputs? Suggestions?
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?'s are good
Bigpops,
Welcome!!! Don't be affraid to ask questions. We all enjoy helping and informing, and sometimes we even learn because we're to embarassed.
Your question on 1911's needs to be sent to every gun maker in the nation! I have often wondered why they can't make stock guns in other calibers instead of making us buy more parts. On the other hand, the hours spent customizing can save money by giving "gun time" without actually burning ammo.
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I just built my own rifle and pistol range...
Post some pictures if you can.
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Welcome newbie...If you haven't already, check out the video of TJ making a big pile of .45 brass in a short time.
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BigPops, the Navy's concern was well founded, but not because of you. I apologize!! In 1966, I was a lookout on the USS Amherst, a Patrol Craft Escort Rescue (PCE-R), in the Corn belt Fleet in the Great Lakes, on a training cruise. We were moored inside the gunnery range off shore from Milwaukee in Lake Michigan. The Weapons Officer had us paint three oil drums international orange, complete with smiley faces, to fire at on the following day. Overnight, HEAVY fog rolled in and at "dawn" the visibility was 300 yards at most, and dead calm. We had to fire and clear the range by 0900 hrs, so in the orange barrels went in the water, and the 3" deck gun started booming.
Soon, the still unharmed barrels floated out to where they blended into the fog, and our rounds just skipped off the water into the unknown of the range. Off in the distance, a red glow appeared behind the barrels, followed by a muffled BOOM. An involuntary cheer went up, as we were all on deck watching and knew we finally hit something. The Captain, however, was not so cheery. We ceased fire and weighed anchor, motoring in the direction of the glow, still visible.
The hearing later concluded that a 40' yacht became lost in the fog and darkness, missed the numerous warning buoys surrounding the gunnery range, ignored the mandatory charts, and wandered, drifting, into the Amherst's line of fire. Because we "rescued" the owner, his wife and child, the Navy only had to pay 3 million in damages. The revelry the owner and family reported hearing was duly recognized as a "General Alarm" raised by the crew when the mishap was discovered. Swear to God, I never saw'em.
I can still see that lady, standing on the stern of the sinking yacht, trying to kick loose the life raft while the propane tank burned. Really, it wasn't funny. Well, now it maybe is, just a little. Anyway, you see, it was my fault you were so closely restricted. I apologize. And welcome, Mac, RD3.
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BigPops, the Navy's concern was well founded, but not because of you. I apologize!! In 1966, I was a lookout on the USS Amherst, a Patrol Craft Escort Rescue (PCE-R), in the Corn belt Fleet in the Great Lakes, on a training cruise. We were moored inside the gunnery range off shore from Milwaukee in Lake Michigan. The Weapons Officer had us paint three oil drums international orange, complete with smiley faces, to fire at on the following day. Overnight, HEAVY fog rolled in and at "dawn" the visibility was 300 yards at most, and dead calm. We had to fire and clear the range by 0900 hrs, so in the orange barrels went in the water, and the 3" deck gun started booming.
Soon, the still unharmed barrels floated out to where they blended into the fog, and our rounds just skipped off the water into the unknown of the range. Off in the distance, a red glow appeared behind the barrels, followed by a muffled BOOM. An involuntary cheer went up, as we were all on deck watching and knew we finally hit something. The Captain, however, was not so cheery. We ceased fire and weighed anchor, motoring in the direction of the glow, still visible.
The hearing later concluded that a 40' yacht became lost in the fog and darkness, missed the numerous warning buoys surrounding the gunnery range, ignored the mandatory charts, and wandered, drifting, into the Amherst's line of fire. Because we "rescued" the owner, his wife and child, the Navy only had to pay 3 million in damages. The revelry the owner and family reported hearing was duly recognized as a "General Alarm" raised by the crew when the mishap was discovered. Swear to God, I never saw'em.
I can still see that lady, standing on the stern of the sinking yacht, trying to kick loose the life raft while the propane tank burned. Really, it wasn't funny. Well, now it maybe is, just a little. Anyway, you see, it was my fault you were so closely restricted. I apologize. And welcome, Mac, RD3.
Only you Mac, only you ::)
;D
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BigPops, you will soon learn that Hazcat is the KING of mischief. But everybody here is a straight shooter. Mac.
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Wow...you guys are awesome..Thank you!
I own a Sig P226 40 S&W. Love the gun! But you all know how it goes....I NEED MORE! (excuse to get a bigger safe)
My excuse was the new safe, and all of the free space within it. So it's more and more . . . ;D
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BigPops, the Navy's concern was well founded, but not because of you. I apologize!! In 1966, I was a lookout on the USS Amherst, a Patrol Craft Escort Rescue (PCE-R), in the Corn belt Fleet in the Great Lakes, on a training cruise. We were moored inside the gunnery range off shore from Milwaukee in Lake Michigan. The Weapons Officer had us paint three oil drums international orange, complete with smiley faces, to fire at on the following day. Overnight, HEAVY fog rolled in and at "dawn" the visibility was 300 yards at most, and dead calm. We had to fire and clear the range by 0900 hrs, so in the orange barrels went in the water, and the 3" deck gun started booming.
Soon, the still unharmed barrels floated out to where they blended into the fog, and our rounds just skipped off the water into the unknown of the range. Off in the distance, a red glow appeared behind the barrels, followed by a muffled BOOM. An involuntary cheer went up, as we were all on deck watching and knew we finally hit something. The Captain, however, was not so cheery. We ceased fire and weighed anchor, motoring in the direction of the glow, still visible.
The hearing later concluded that a 40' yacht became lost in the fog and darkness, missed the numerous warning buoys surrounding the gunnery range, ignored the mandatory charts, and wandered, drifting, into the Amherst's line of fire. Because we "rescued" the owner, his wife and child, the Navy only had to pay 3 million in damages. The revelry the owner and family reported hearing was duly recognized as a "General Alarm" raised by the crew when the mishap was discovered. Swear to God, I never saw'em.
I can still see that lady, standing on the stern of the sinking yacht, trying to kick loose the life raft while the propane tank burned. Really, it wasn't funny. Well, now it maybe is, just a little. Anyway, you see, it was my fault you were so closely restricted. I apologize. And welcome, Mac, RD3.
Bet the family on the yacht didn't need any prunes ;D
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Bet the family on the yacht didn't need any prunes ;D
But, they did need clean underwear ;D
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Wow.....now that is a classic sea story! I was laughing my butt off.
I spent three seasons flying in Antarctica. We had some funny stuff happen but nothing to your level. Then again, in todays world it would have been all over the news and I would be writing this from a cute little cell in Kansas.
I will work on some pictures of the range. Nothing to fancy but it will work. I cleared out a 100yd range for rifles and am building a nice little pistol range. The setup is for 25 yards but it is possible to back up to 100 if you feel froggy. I have a steel IPSIC target ordered and have a six plate tree already set up. It is in the backyard, in a wooded area. When I am finished it should be sweet.
Now the biggie...like I said I already have the Sig P226 in 40 S&W. I have been debating real hard between a Kimber and a Para. I really like the Para so far.
I am torn between the Todd Jarrett edition 40 or 45. Any comments on all of this? Anyone have experience with these weapons?
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Looking forward to the pictures. If you live long enough, stuff just happens while you're there.. It was a regretable incident. One of many in which people become innocently involved. Right, Hazcat?
Mac.
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Looking forward to the pictures. If you live long enough, stuff just happens while you're there.. It was a regretable incident. One of many in which people become innocently involved. Right, Hazcat?
Mac.
Not ME! ::)
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Looking forward to the pictures. If you live long enough, stuff just happens while you're there.. It was a regretable incident. One of many in which people become innocently involved. Right, Hazcat?
Ahhhh .. (http://www.rightnation.us/forums/style_emoticons/default/exactly.gif)....
Not ME! ::)
Not you?? Ohhh Plluueeesse~~ I beg to differ... ::)
I would be right next to an angelic (http://www.gangsterbb.net/emoticons/angel.gif)on here IF it wasn't for you and Mack and Pathfinder and Jay and Tom and ..and... and...and... weeelllll .. just all of you!
Yessireee I would. I would have stayed my sweet and innocent angelic little self.. BUT~~~ since I have been corrupted by all you owl hoots.. I am now bordering on (http://www.gangsterbb.net/emoticons/devil.gif)
THAT is why I am the way I am.
So (http://www.rightnation.us/forums/style_emoticons/default/nono.gif) don't give me that "Not Me" stuff.. ::)
(http://www.rightnation.us/forums/style_emoticons/default/Giggles.gif)
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UHHHH, Yeah, Riiiiight...WE corrupted you. ::)
Somebody get me a shovel! It's gettin' deep in here.
;D
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Ahhhh .. (http://www.rightnation.us/forums/style_emoticons/default/exactly.gif)....
Not you?? Ohhh Plluueeesse~~ I beg to differ... ::)
I would be right next to an angelic (http://www.gangsterbb.net/emoticons/angel.gif)on here IF it wasn't for you and Mack and Pathfinder and Jay and Tom and ..and... and...and... weeelllll .. just all of you!
Yessireee I would. I would have stayed my sweet and innocent angelic little self.. BUT~~~ since I have been corrupted by all you owl hoots.. I am now bordering on (http://www.gangsterbb.net/emoticons/devil.gif)
THAT is why I am the way I am.
So (http://www.rightnation.us/forums/style_emoticons/default/nono.gif) don't give me that "Not Me" stuff.. ::)
(http://www.rightnation.us/forums/style_emoticons/default/Giggles.gif)
Nice try, but I read the Classic joke thread ;D
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Rats!! (http://www.cascity.com/howard/forum/angry.gif)
Caught again! >:(