The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: twyacht on February 16, 2011, 08:28:35 PM
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http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/02/17/3140994.htm?section=justin
A New York judge has sentenced a Somali pirate to 33 years in prison for his involvement in an attack on a US-flagged ship off the coast of Africa.
Abdiwali Abdiqadir Muse was one of four pirates who attacked the Maersk Alabama cargo ship off Somalia's coast in April 2009.
They escaped with the ship's American captain and a three-day stand-off took place until US Navy sharpshooters killed the other three pirates as they tried to escape on a lifeboat with the ship's captain.
Muse was the only survivor.
Federal Judge Loretta Preska in New York said the sentence of 33 years, nine months would serve as "general deterrence in this kind of crime".
Prosecutors and the judge described Muse as a hardened pirate leader who displayed a cruel streak when he pretended to shoot the cargo ship's American captain.
Prosecutors said he was sadistic, and took pleasure from his hostages' suffering, subjecting them to mock executions.
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I think a fine oak tree with some Bogan approved rope would have sent a better message,...Some deterrence Judge Asshat...
What kind of wussies has our country turned into? I'd even accept firing squad, but now taxdollars get him 3 hots and a cot?
Damn Shame.
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It shouldn't have even gotten to court. International law is quite clear that any court or flagged vessel can excecute pirates caught in the act. It probably hasn't been done that way in a century (though China and Malysia may be exeptions), but it would still be a good detterent. If the Brits, French, Italians Saudis (now apparently the Iranians ::)) and the US all started to use these previously granted powers it would go a long way toward stopping it. We don't have yardarms anymore, so it would have to be a firing party on the fan tail, but it would still work. Lacks a certain poinginancy though. ;)
FQ13
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Damn, the title scared me tad. :o
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Damn, the title scared me tad. :o
Read it as advocating good Kentucky Bourbon for a Pirate, and you'll feel better. ;D
FQ13
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I agree with FQ. It worked pretty good on the "Spanish Main".
During the War of 1812,the last years of war between England and France, all 3 countries continued their "anti Piracy patrols".
Although then and during the Civil war the situation was complicated by Privateers bearing legitimate letters of Marque.
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International law is quite clear that any court or flagged vessel can excecute pirates caught in the act. It probably hasn't been done that way in a century
you seem to forget that three others were killed by the squids. (nice shot!) also, we have a four man team onboard now with M4's, their orsders are..... if they believe them to be a threat, to use deadly force. one of the guys was on the Maersk Alabama the second time they were attacked. (don't hear about that one much as they were stopped by using evil firearms). anyway, I don't agree with the guy getting 33 years. hang him, shoot him, whatever. he was involved in kidnapping American citizens on an American flagged ship. HANG HIM!
also, they had him on board when the others were killed and would be hard to justify shooting him after he is no longer a threat. (though it would make us feel better, and certainly be more of a deterrent than 33 years of 3 hot meals and a decent bed.
deepwater
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For most non-pirarate Somalis, a US prison would be a huge step up. Food, AC, indoor plumbing and less dangerous neighbors. :-\
FQ13
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Could always do like the Russian's.
Let them go,
200 miles from shore in a boat shot full of holes. ;D
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I definitely like Tom's response. Make them shark bait.
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Could always do like the Russian's.
Let them go,
200 miles from shore in a boat then shoot it full of holes. ;D
fixed.
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Actually, when you think about it, Walking The Plank was rather humane.
I mean, if given the choice to be hung from the yard arm or shot on the fantail, which would you choose?
Even 200 miles from any shore, swimming for it has a better chance than either of the others.
It will also give them a lot more time to think about the errors of their way.
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Actually, when you think about it, Walking The Plank was rather humane.
I mean, if given the choice to be hung from the yard arm or shot on the fantail, which would you choose?
Even 200 miles from any shore, swimming for it has a better chance than either of the others.
It will also give them a lot more time to think about the errors of their way.
With your hands bound behind your back and a hundred pounds of chain around your waist ::)
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With your hands bound behind your back and a hundred pounds of chain around your waist ::)
True...might cut down on the available time for reflection.
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Just put a wire tie around their neck and kick them over the side.
Same effect with out risk to delicate antenna's that have replaced masts on modern ships.
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Just put a wire tie around their neck and kick them over the side.
Same effect with out risk to delicate antenna's that have replaced masts on modern ships.
Too gory. No one would show it (exept Al Jazeera, or maybe Fox if they ever put a one hour news show on FX ;)). I think a quick firing party is the way to go. As to walking the plank, no weights or rope was required. Most sailors back in the day couldn't swim, figuring, what's the point? Not a bad attitude if you're dropped overboard 200 miles out.
FQ13
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Just put a wire tie around their neck and kick them over the side.
Same effect with out risk to delicate antenna's that have replaced masts on modern ships.
as I am aboard one of these modern ships at the moment, I can tell you that we still have masts and that they are certainly strong enough for some skinny pirate from Somalia. yes, ships still have masts, though used for antennae, radars, flags and lights, they are still quite stout. they have to hold up to some very serious weather and be tall enough to be seen from a long distance off. yes, we can hang them.
deepwater
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yes, we can hang them.
That's what I like to see. A "can do" attitude. ;D
Swoop
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as I am aboard one of these modern ships at the moment, I can tell you that we still have masts and that they are certainly strong enough for some skinny pirate from Somalia. yes, ships still have masts, though used for antennae, radars, flags and lights, they are still quite stout. they have to hold up to some very serious weather and be tall enough to be seen from a long distance off. yes, we can hang them.
deepwater
It is not likely you will need to hang them now that you have a Rifle Squad to deal with the problem.
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It is not likely you will need to hang them now that you have a Rifle Squad to deal with the problem.
It's not about need Solus. ;)
After all, it's about adhering to maritime law! ;D
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One thing we are over looking.
33 years beats the hell out of a multi million dollar settlement for violating his "human rights", or 6 years suspended on condition of good behavior.
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(http://navyphotos.togetherweserved.com/1591671.jpg)
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Hell, turn the Coast Guard loose on them. They have jurisdiction over any US flagged vessel globally. I saw a piece on the Military Channel on the heliborn sniper teams they deploy against drug runners. A few of those mounted on innocent looking frieghters trolling temptingly close to land? Well, a gal with a .50 cal Barret firing on your small boat from 500 yards out of a chopper will ruin your whole day. ;D
FQ13
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FQ, you should have seen the hardware we had on board a small RIB when did nuke sub escorts... lets just say it would make a marine gunny cream in his pants. THe most we ever had was 3m2 and 6 m 60s on a 7m rib thats ~ a 23' long boat. M16, shot guns, side arms... the only thing we did not have was explosives.
our ROE were pretty lose as well. We were litterly tuaght to park our bow on top of yours if you did not comply.( IE disabled/sunk) We were not playing games.
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One thing we are over looking.
33 years beats the hell out of a multi million dollar settlement for violating his "human rights", or 6 years suspended on condition of good behavior.
true,
wonder what will be done with him when he gets out? (if he gets out alive that is) repatriate him? parole and a place in Berkley? (they want to house the Gitmo guys, right?) anyway, it's a shame we, as tax payers, are paying to keep this thug in a cell with a mattress better than the one I have on the ship and three hot meals. oh yeah, and not have to worry about working for a living for the next 33 years and 9 months. bastard.
oh... just got some new info on the 2nd incident with M. Alabama. the pirates did not turn away, they exchanged fire...... you can figure the rest out yourselves.
deepwater
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Actually NO Even Berkley doesn't want the Gitmo bunch. City council voted it down.
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Actually NO Even Berkley doesn't want the Gitmo bunch. City council voted it down.
It would be poetic justice though. The peace, love and happines crowd would see that the "poor oppressed" Arabs actually want to burn them at the stake. The Jihadis on the other hand? Well being the bus boy at a gay bar would do them a world of good. ;D
FQ13
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Actually NO Even Berkley doesn't want the Gitmo bunch. City council voted it down.
;D ;D ;D ;D
that's saying something there... ;D
deepwater
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Actually NO Even Berkley doesn't want the Gitmo bunch. City council voted it down.
berkley is the arm pit of the CA coast... no bs its a dirty city, every thing else in the area is nice, but berkley is a shit hole
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TABs right on this, rattiest buildings and worst streets in Alameda County. Most litter, etc.
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Berkley Bowl is worth a visit.
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TABs right on this, rattiest buildings and worst streets in Alameda County. Most litter, etc.
full of dirty hippies...
yes there is a diffrence between a hippie and a dirty hippy
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The plot thickens:
http://www.startribune.com/nation/116506813.html (http://www.startribune.com/nation/116506813.html)
Somalia's UN Mission says pirates
hijacked a yacht carrying 4 US
citizens
Associated Press
Last update: February 18, 2011 - 6:23 PM
UNITED NATIONS - Somalia's U.N. Mission
said Friday that pirates hijacked a yacht
carrying four U.S. citizens in the Indian
Ocean off the Somali coast.
Omar Jamal, first secretary at the Somali
mission, identified the yacht as the S/V
Quest.
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Best of luck to them, as they are most likely completely unarmed. Unlike some other yachts I have worked on, most have no anti piracy plan for defense.
What a difference a couple of AR's, AK's, Shotguns, high cap pistols,...SOMETHING!!!! But alas,.....
_ Gun Owning Vessel
_ Victim
Seems they chose wrong.
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I am generally not a blood thirsty type (well, not by this boards standards anyway, although I was the house war monger in any college I ever taught at ;D), BUT here's the thing. Piracy only prospers when the pirates have a safe port. Now I know that living in Somalia sucks. If I lived there and ran a small business in a port city, seeing pirates with lots of money to spend and guns to keep the warlords off my back would seem like a great deal. Hell, what do I care about a bunch of foreiners? What have they done other than made us a target of colonialism and a particularly cynical pawn in their Cold War? Why shouldn't I help them?
In order to change that way of thinking, I'm afraid sweet reason won't work. Bomb the crap out the waterfronts of the cities that shelter pirated vessels. Civilians will die (that's kind of the point) and hostages will be killed. But after you do it once, the peasants with pitch forks will tell the prates to go elsewhere as they won't want to be next. Its the only way to make this thing go away. No ports=No pirates. A friendly port=pirates.
FQ13
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I am generally not a blood thirsty type (well, not by this boards standards anyway, although I was the house war monger in any college I ever taught at ;D), BUT here's the thing. Piracy only prospers when the pirates have a safe port. Now I know that living in Somalia sucks. If I lived there and ran a small business in a port city, seeing pirates with lots of money to spend and guns to keep the warlords off my back would seem like a great deal. Hell, what do I care about a bunch of foreiners? What have they done other than made us a target of colonialism and a particularly cynical pawn in their Cold War? Why shouldn't I help them?
In order to change that way of thinking, I'm afraid sweet reason won't work. Bomb the crap out the waterfronts of the cities that shelter pirated vessels. Civilians will die (that's kind of the point) and hostages will be killed. But after you do it once, the peasants with pitch forks will tell the prates to go elsewhere as they won't want to be next. Its the only way to make this thing go away. No ports=No pirates. A friendly port=pirates.
FQ13
good reason not to do it that way.
you got some sand saying that when one of us is in pirate waters FQ. they are small boats attached to a larger mother vessel that poses as a fishing vessel. which ones are they? where do they come from? easy to hide and the larger vessel can be supplied by smaller faster boats, or the larger boats can resupply while the the little speed boats wait at sea. the little bastard are well organised for a bunch of third world thugs. and if someone gave an order that put myself and shipmates in danger of being killed by our own side, and they know it.... better get us all and they better watch out.
if you're willing to kill the people you're trying to protect, then why even bother? just let the dirty little pirates do their thing, we would have a better chance than if FQ was in charge.
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Deepwater,
I'm only one guy but if the pirates get you, I'll volunteer myself to come a get you back.
Leave no American behind has been something I've believed in my entire life...no reason to stop now!
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good reason not to do it that way.
you got some sand saying that when one of us is in pirate waters FQ. they are small boats attached to a larger mother vessel that poses as a fishing vessel. which ones are they? where do they come from? easy to hide and the larger vessel can be supplied by smaller faster boats, or the larger boats can resupply while the the little speed boats wait at sea. the little bastard are well organised for a bunch of third world thugs. and if someone gave an order that put myself and shipmates in danger of being killed by our own side, and they know it.... better get us all and they better watch out.
if you're willing to kill the people you're trying to protect, then why even bother? just let the dirty little pirates do their thing, we would have a better chance than if FQ was in charge.
No offense Deepwater but it boils down to this. Clausewitz had it right when he said that "The object of war is to destroy your enemy's will to resist". Anything else is wishful thinking. If you can come up with a way to deter the pirates from attacking, protect civilians and cause other Somalis to stop backing them (which is what makes them viable), then I'd like to hear it. From my POV (which is admittedly a lot less exposed than yours) we have two choices. One, fight them on the high seas, which as you just pointed out is an iffy thing. Option two, hit them where they live and turn the populace against them. War has costs. Mariners have always paid them as have civilians. Look at WWII. How many merchant mariners died in the North Atlantic and how many civilians died from bombs? I don't take this lightly. The only question is this. Could we, should we, have done anything differently? Colin Powell had it right when he said "The greatest inhuanity of war is the condition of war itself. Therefore, we should use all means to end a war as quicly as possible".
Respectfully
FQ13
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Deepwater,
I'm only one guy but if the pirates get you, I'll volunteer myself to come a get you back.
Leave no American behind has been something I've believed in my entire life...no reason to stop now!
Thanks Timothy, though I think that if they did get aboard this ship and end up taking us, some of us would end up dead from trying to deter the little spit wads.
No offense Deepwater but it boils down to this. Clausewitz had it right when he said that "The object of war is to destroy your enemy's will to resist". Anything else is wishful thinking. If you can come up with a way to deter the pirates from attacking, protect civilians and cause other Somalis to stop backing them (which is what makes them viable), then I'd like to hear it. From my POV (which is admittedly a lot less exposed than yours) we have two choices. One, fight them on the high seas, which as you just pointed out is an iffy thing. Option two, hit them where they live and turn the populace against them. War has costs. Mariners have always paid them as have civilians. Look at WWII. How many merchant mariners died in the North Atlantic and how many civilians died from bombs? I don't take this lightly. The only question is this. Could we, should we, have done anything differently? Colin Powell had it right when he said "The greatest inhuanity of war is the condition of war itself. Therefore, we should use all means to end a war as quicly as possible".
Respectfully
FQ13
piracy may seem like war for some of us, but they are nothing more than thugs. to be dealt with accordingly. they represent nobody and only answer to themselves. kill them. arm our ships and our sailors, THAT, will deter or effectively deal with them as they come. the little douche bags are attacking more than one ship per day. take several per week. let's arm ourselves and deal with them here. to attack their ports and the civilians would be like bombing Detroit because tourists keep getting mugged and kidnapped or murdered. sound about right?would piss off the remaining population, but would do nothing to the thugs. (though bombing Detroit does sound like good fun) ;)
well, gotta go now, must get a little rest as tomorrow we transit the Suez canal. woopeee!
deepwater
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Fair Winds DW.....
safe passage expected. North or south?
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Thanks Timothy, though I think that if they did get aboard this ship and end up taking us, some of us would end up dead from trying to deter the little spit wads.
piracy may seem like war for some of us, but they are nothing more than thugs. to be dealt with accordingly. they represent nobody and only answer to themselves. kill them. arm our ships and our sailors, THAT, will deter or effectively deal with them as they come. the little douche bags are attacking more than one ship per day. take several per week. let's arm ourselves and deal with them here. to attack their ports and the civilians would be like bombing Detroit because tourists keep getting mugged and kidnapped or murdered. sound about right?would piss off the remaining population, but would do nothing to the thugs. (though bombing Detroit does sound like good fun) ;)
well, gotta go now, must get a little rest as tomorrow we transit the Suez canal. woopeee!
deepwater
Point taken Deepwater. I just gues that the numbers you posted sound a lot like war, just like the Barbary pirates of the Marine Corps Hymn. Still, you are right, they are apolitical (mostly thugs). I may be wrong in my approach, I just don't see much alternative, although I am 4 square in favor of putting a fire team with heavy weapons aboard any US flagged vessel. As far as the Suez, have fun and enjoy the sights. Get your picture taken with that Iranian frigate if you can. ;D
FQ13
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The best way of doing it is a sustained 3 point campaign .
1 ) ship board defenses, just like on a bad street, the ability to defend your self makes you a less tempting target
2 ) Pirates caught in the act die, immediately. When the risk is higher than the profit it will become more difficult for them to recruit crews
3) ports that offer support services get the crap bombed out of them, merchants who supply them are assassinated.When it is purely profit with no direct risk the pirates are hero's. When it means that you may be killed for taking their money it is not so appealing.
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The plot thickens:
http://www.startribune.com/nation/116506813.html (http://www.startribune.com/nation/116506813.html)
Just saw a news report that a Navy "warship" is tailing the yacht. They think it is headed for land in Yemen. They feel that if the yacht makes land they will lose track of the four hostages.
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There are two situations when having AK's and ammo, RPG's etc,... are a bad idea.
1. When you are drowning.
2. When you are on fire.
Navy needs to utilize option 1.
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Just saw a news report that a Navy "warship" is tailing the yacht. They think it is headed for land in Yemen. They feel that if the yacht makes land they will lose track of the four hostages.
Survey says, don't let them make land. Honestly, were I a hostage I'd probably rather the Navy blew the ship out of the water than be Daniel Pearl. At least I'd die with a smile. It is time to scare the crap out of these folks. We can actually do this as they are fighting for money, not martyrdom. Oddly, this means we can deal with them rationally. Touch a US vessel and die. They will find other targets or another line of work.
FQ13