The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: fightingquaker13 on February 26, 2011, 02:01:05 PM
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Carrying in Church is difficult for me. It used to be a moral issue for me, but you beat the Quaker out of me and convinced me that God helps those who help themselves, so I have decided to go ahead and carry. Still, I'm more paranoid about printing there than aywhere as the congregation would not approve. I really don't want to start a 2A fight in a church setting. My question is on practicallity.This may sound like an odd question to Protestants, but for Catholics and Epicopalians, you know the drill. Sit, stand, kneel. Since my church is casual, I'm not wearing a suit. I was thinking about how to position an IWB for a more concealable position while doing "Epsicorobics". Any thoughts?
FQ13
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Convert to Lutheran, it's the same as Catholicism without all the symbolism and heartache.
And the Minister can get married!
;D
p.s. I'm a baptized and confirmed Lutheran......though I don't attend services anymore. My Church is the Faith which on occasion has waned.
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I'm an Episcoplain. Its kind of the same thing (we even recognize ELCA ministers), still, we have to do the dance. ;)
FQ13
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I'm an Episcoplain. Its kind of the same thing (we even recognize ELCA ministers), still, we have to do the dance. ;)
FQ13
I attend a few services with my wife who's Catholic. Rather than kneel, I just scoot forward in the pew and "assume the position" rather than actually rest me knees on the whatchamacallit thing.....
But, I limp anyway so everyone assumes I'm busted....
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On the occasional RC wedding and funerals I go to I have not had a problem with either an IWB (FIST) with the Glock or the 642 in a pocket holster. This is with full battle rattle on,suit and tie.
Remember most of the world is not looking for weapons on folks especially in church. Get over the everyone can see my pistol.
Wear a spare magazine on the off side and it will feel more balanced.
The two Baptist brothers I worked with carry 1911's to their church services. Chris's son is always wispering every Sunday, Dad do you have your gun on? Chris's wife just rolls her eyes and ask God why she didn't have a girl.
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On the occasional RC wedding and funerals I go to I have not had a problem with either an IWB (FIST) with the Glock or the 642 in a pocket holster. This is with full battle rattle on,suit and tie.
Remember most of the world is not looking for weapons on folks especially in church. Get over the everyone can see my pistol.
Wear a spare magazine on the off side and it will feel more balanced.
The two Baptist brothers I worked with carry 1911's to their church services. Chris's son is always wispering every Sunday, Dad do you have your gun on? Chris's wife just rolls her eyes and ask God why she didn't have a girl.
Right, cause then she'd be asking "Mom, do you have your gun on, and is it the purple one"? ;D
FQ13
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Church carry is lcp in the pocket. When wearing a suit I will sometimes also carry the 1911 iwb. But no matter the worship aerobics a j frame in the boot and an lcp in the pocket will go unnoticed.
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Considering you're in Florida, you're probably not alone in that you're carrying a firearm.
Considering you're in Palm Beach might be an issue but as was already mentioned, no one is really that concerned. Your little bitty Glock isn't any bigger than a cell phone. Stuff it into the chinos.
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Church carry is lcp in the pocket. When wearing a suit I will sometimes also carry the 1911 iwb. But no matter the worship aerobics a j frame in the boot and an lcp in the pocket will go unnoticed.
Never done the boot carry thing, though I do wear them. Do you use an ankle holster, or just stuff it in your sock?
FQ13
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Never done the boot carry thing, though I do wear them. Do you use an ankle holster, or just stuff it in your sock?
FQ13
We ARE still talking about guns, right!
;D ;D
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Never done the boot carry thing, though I do wear them. Do you use an ankle holster, or just stuff it in your sock?
FQ13
I'm right handed (important fact in this description):
A right hand iwb with an added retention strap (I took an old Uncle Mike's and added inch and a half wide velcro - hooks on one side and loops on the other) ;
Clipped to the inside of the shank of the left boot;
Draw consists of planting my left foot; grasping pant leg at mid calf; rocking back and dropping onto right knee. This motion brings the pant cuff above the boot shank, and my right hand is right next to the gun. A quick rip of the velcro, grab and draw.
With practice you will find that you can quickly and controlled drop to the ground with your left calf and right thigh perpendicular to the ground, your knees will both be bent at ninety degrees, and your left thigh and right calf will be parallel to the ground. This will give you a very solid, stable and compact shooting stance, while allowing the flexibility to rotate at the hips to scan left and right far enough to get a full 360 view.
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I'm right handed (important fact in this description):
A right hand iwb with an added retention strap (I took an old Uncle Mike's and added inch and a half wide velcro - hooks on one side and loops on the other) ;
Clipped to the inside of the shank of the left boot;
Draw consists of planting my left foot; grasping pant leg at mid calf; rocking back and dropping onto right knee. This motion brings the pant cuff above the boot shank, and my right hand is right next to the gun. A quick rip of the velcro, grab and draw.
With practice you will find that you can quickly and controlled drop to the ground with your left calf and right thigh perpendicular to the ground, your knees will both be bent at ninety degrees, and your left thigh and right calf will be parallel to the ground. This will give you a very solid, stable and compact shooting stance, while allowing the flexibility to rotate at the hips to scan left and right far enough to get a full 360 view.
That sounds like one of those moves that probably takes three times as long to describe it as it does to do it. Maybe you can get a cameo on "Best Defense"? ;D I'll try it. I've got a spanking new Don Hume IWB that has a fair bit of structural integrity to it. It might work here. My old Galco (which was basically a leather bag with a belt clip, though comfy) wouldn't have done the job. The new holster might. Thanks.
FQ13
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good grief, just carry the dam thing and quit worrying , GOD don't care. I carry in church along with a lot of others. Although we don't openly discuss it. Even my Bible study was excited when they found out I got my State license for Armed protection officer.
Did you bring your gun today? I said 24/7 . We have a 400 person church, and I know of many that carry.
And if you're wondering, its a Christian Church.
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good grief, just carry the dam thing and quit worrying , GOD don't care. I carry in church along with a lot of others. Although we don't openly discuss it. Even my Bible study was excited when they found out I got my State license for Armed protection officer.
Did you bring your gun today? I said 24/7 . We have a 400 person church, and I know of many that carry.
And if you're wondering, its a Christian Church.
I don't give a rats rump about theology, its just the potential for printing and the comfort factor when you are kneeling, standing, sitting etc. Glad your congragation is open to guns.
FQ13
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Smallest gun you've got in a pocket holster and nobody will notice 'cause nobody is really looking.
Even with the "Epsicorobics" you'll be fine.
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In church, I usually carry a j frame IWB. I thought about an ankle holster, but haven't tried that yet. I don't quite have the same aerobics, but there are times when hands are raised (mine never too high), and sometimes kneeling to pray. We have a lot of LEO in our church so I am a very conscious about printing or anything like that. It has never been a problem. My firearm, IWB it hardly noticeable at all. My main concern would be the "huggie" types.
If you're firearm is big enough to print, this might be a case for a smaller LCP-type.
Anybody have issues with ankle holsters "printing"?
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My church (Methodist) rents out several rooms to the local school district for a computer program for kids who have trouble in regular class situations so they have posted the dreaded no gun sign. I told our minister that I understand why...but disagreed with it. He hadn't even noticed the sign. I have to attend a meeting in the evening during the week and will probably carry and not tell anyone! Might carry on Sunday also. Could get in trouble but...
Richard
PS: The MC has been anti for a ton of years. Even adding stuff at their General Conference about CCB and Invisible (X-ray proof)Plastic Guns
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Ellis,
What does no guns allowed mean in Ohio? Minnesota it is more of a request, and if you get caught and refuse to take the gun out it is a minimal fine for trespass. If you comply with the request it is a no harm no foul situation.
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In church, I usually carry a j frame IWB. I thought about an ankle holster, but haven't tried that yet. I don't quite have the same aerobics, but there are times when hands are raised (mine never too high), and sometimes kneeling to pray. We have a lot of LEO in our church so I am a very conscious about printing or anything like that. It has never been a problem. My firearm, IWB it hardly noticeable at all. My main concern would be the "huggie" types.
If you're firearm is big enough to print, this might be a case for a smaller LCP-type.
Anybody have issues with ankle holsters "printing"?
Not through an eighth inch of leather ;D
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My church (Methodist) rents out several rooms to the local school district for a computer program for kids who have trouble in regular class situations so they have posted the dreaded no gun sign. I told our minister that I understand why...but disagreed with it. He hadn't even noticed the sign. I have to attend a meeting in the evening during the week and will probably carry and not tell anyone! Might carry on Sunday also. Could get in trouble but...
Richard
PS: The MC has been anti for a ton of years. Even adding stuff at their General Conference about CCB and Invisible (X-ray proof)Plastic Guns
Actually Ellis, it might be more than "trouble". If that no gun sign, plus you renting space out to a school means it is, in fact, a school, you are looking at jail time. I'd double check that before carrying, because a gun in a school zone equals major league badness. :P
FQ13
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Two options to thing about.
1. Find the biggest bible you can, hollow it out,stash your gun in there, and use a Velcro strap to keep it tightly shut.
2. Wear your pants baggy enough to use a Smart Carry. It will position the gun in your crouch and no one at church should be inspecting your there, even if it does print, which it won't.
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I was going to say that a 26 in your pocket is a lot but still functional and not that noticeable. I was also going to suggest that a LCP or similar might not be a bad investment for a church gun.
But then, I read this.
Two options to thing about.
1. Find the biggest bible you can, hollow it out,stash your gun in there, and use a Velcro strap to keep it tightly shut.
2. Wear your pants baggy enough to use a Smart Carry. It will position the gun in your crouch and no one at church should be inspecting your there, even if it does print, which it won't.
Something seems a little wrong about option one, but it also seems quite effective. Option two also seems like a pretty good idea.
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Like FQ said...my church might qualify as a school and I could be in a lot of trouble with the law. That being said...it would be after hours and on weekends if I decide to carry - haven't yet.
Richard
PS: Yes, I had thought of that.
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I was going to say that a 26 in your pocket is a lot but still functional and not that noticeable. I was also going to suggest that a LCP or similar might not be a bad investment for a church gun.
But then, I read this.
Something seems a little wrong about option one, but it also seems quite effective. Option two also seems like a pretty good idea.
Yeah...it does seem a bit of a misuse of a bible, but I sort of like the image of clasping it to your breast....so you will be "Clinging to your bible and gun" in the same package ;D ;D
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Yeah...it does seem a bit of a misuse of a bible, but I sort of like the image of clasping it to your breast....so you will be "Clinging to your bible and gun" in the same package ;D ;D
You forgot the bitterness Solus, you have to remember to be bitter. It spoils the whole effect if you don't. ;D
FQ13
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You forgot the bitterness Solus, you have to remember to be bitter. It spoils the whole effect if you don't. ;D
FQ13
Bitterness is no problem. I just remember the scene in Cat Ballou where Dwayne Hickman, posing as a preacher, was holding a bible with a knife hidden inside. He used the knife to cut the noose from Cat Ballou, played by Hanoi Jane. Cat Ballou was a1965 movie, filmed a few years before Hanoi Jane was revealed to be a traitor.
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The Bible trick reminds me of Robert Mitchum in "5 Card Stud" with Dean Martin.
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The church I attend is a dayschool during the week. And while that may be a concern for an after-the-fact questioning by authorities, it's not much a a concern for me while I'm attending services. If after-the-fact should ever arise, I expect the fact that I was able to save some lives by banging out a few at the bad guy may trump the techincal illegality.
Depending on the weather, I wear a concealment vest with my Glock 27 nestled therein. Warmer weather? I wear the Glock in my right front pocket, safely enshrouded in an Uncle Mike pocket holster. Sometimes, I wear my .357 mag Rossi snubbi tucked into a pancake holster, but I usually have a jacket or sweater over.
If you don't advertise the fact that you are carrying, no one should know enough to be especially aware of whether or not you may be printing.
Just another point here... I asked the president of my local bank how he felt about my carrying in his place of business (technically, it's illegal). His response was to the effect of, if you stop a robbery, you'll likely get a reward. If no robbery is happening, don't show anybody what you're carrying. It could get you in trouble.
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CR,
How is it 'technically illegal"? Is it a Fed bank?
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CR,
How is it 'technically illegal"? Is it a Fed bank?
yes, I'd like to know that as well.
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My church (Methodist) rents out several rooms to the local school district for a computer program for kids who have trouble in regular class situations so they have posted the dreaded no gun sign. I told our minister that I understand why...but disagreed with it. He hadn't even noticed the sign. I have to attend a meeting in the evening during the week and will probably carry and not tell anyone! Might carry on Sunday also. Could get in trouble but...
Richard
PS: The MC has been anti for a ton of years. Even adding stuff at their General Conference about CCB and Invisible (X-ray proof)Plastic Guns
I find myself in a similar situation. There are no signs posted at my (Catholic) church, but inasmuch as the Catholic grade school is attached to, and uses portions of, the church, it falls under the Iowa prohibition on carrying on the grounds of a primary or secondary school.
Much as I hate it, I must rely on the power of prayer for Divine protection when I attend Mass.