The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Handguns => Topic started by: mortdooley on March 01, 2011, 06:10:25 AM
-
The 19th century star of handguns was the Colt 1873 single action revolver, the star of the 20th was the 1911. Rather then pick a list of handguns for a poll what do you think the star of this century will be?
-
Glock. No question about it. Bill T.
-
I think Glock and Heckler & Koch will lead the way. Personally I think the HK45c is the gun that sets a new standard.
-
Glock is a 20th century gun.
-
Glock is a 20th century gun.
While that in itself is a true statement, there has been nothing to come down the pike since that will dethrone it. Bill T.
-
While that in itself is a true statement, there has been nothing to come down the pike since that will dethrone it. Bill T.
YET ;)
-
I think Glock and Heckler & Koch will lead the way.
H&K will lead the way in pricing. (with SIG trying to dethrone them) :P
The last H&K I handled shot very well. It was large, heavy and thick. (Not a 45c.) My SIG 220 was ligihter and shot every bit as well.
For the current century I think a thin, light polymer with very good ergonomics that is priced right will take the cake.
Maybe it will be the 4th or 5th Gen Glock.
Now if they would get rid of the finger grooves so my fingers won't ride on top of them and I don't have to grind them off.
-
YET
Again, very true. But when you get right down to it, there really isn't a whole lot of places left for handgun design to go. We have maximum durability, reliability, safety, accuracy, lightweight and ease of carry, ergonomics, and affordable cost. There may be a few doodads here and there that will pop up. But overall I don't see anything Earth shaking left to be developed.
Ammunition is much the same way. They've got bullet construction down pat as far as reliable expansion, penetration, and energy transfer. Nothing left to invent. There may be some type of "miracle bullet" like the DRT round or something similar to it that may come along. But overall as far as conventional weapons, bullets, and actions, where we are at is pretty much where we'll stay. To me the Glock, Smith & Wesson M&P, and the H&K are pretty much all one in the same. Bill T.
-
Again, very true. But when you get right down to it, there really isn't a whole lot of places left for handgun design to go. We have maximum durability, reliability, safety, accuracy, lightweight and ease of carry, ergonomics, and affordable cost. There may be a few doodads here and there that will pop up. But overall I don't see anything Earth shaking left to be developed.
Ammunition is much the same way. They've got bullet construction down pat as far as reliable expansion, penetration, and energy transfer. Nothing left to invent. There may be some type of "miracle bullet" like the DRT round or something similar to it that may come along. But overall as far as conventional weapons, bullets, and actions, where we are at is pretty much where we'll stay. To me the Glock, Smith & Wesson M&P, and the H&K are pretty much all one in the same. Bill T.
Probably caseless ammo or electronic ignition. I have to agree with Bill that there really doesn't seem to be any more room for improvement in handguns themselves. Even the Glock uses a mechanism that has been around since about 1900, They only really changed the material.
-
I agree with Tom on what we will be seeing:
The gun of the 21st Century will be one that is engineered by "geeks." We will see circuit boards; electronic firing mechanisms, there will be light sensors adjusting sights, there will be laser range and density finders, and I even see some sort of electromagnetic propulsion doing away with primers and powder and allowing for speed of bullet changes.
I hope it doesn't come in my lifetime, because I keep forgetting that the first rule of computer problems is to reboot. The last thing I need to worry about in a gun fight is to reboot the gun. I has got to be slower than tap and rack :-\
Oh, and micro engraving of the gun id and id of the shooter will be laser etched on every bullet, and there will be some type of RFI embedded in every bullet for location after the shot is taken >:(
-
The 1911 will still be going strong in 2111!
-
The 1911 will still be going strong in 2111!
So will the .357 Mag revolver. You will not be able to handload caseless or electronic ammo.
-
The gun of the 21st Century will be one that is engineered by "geeks." We will see circuit boards; electronic firing mechanisms.
http://www.outdoorlife.com/articles/gear/2007/09/electronic-rifle-revisit
Remington tried all of that with the "Etronix". It used special primers in it's ammunition that fired electronically. Lock time was reduced to all but nothing. It was a total flop. Voere, tried caseless ammunition in a bolt action rifle. It also was a flop. Gun people are traditionalists. Look at how long it took the Glock, along with synthetic stocks to really gain acceptance. Electronics and guns just don't seem to mix. A bit like putting mag wheels and a spoiler on a stagecoach. Bill T.
-
Rail Guns. Hand held, multi-shot, self-loading, rail guns.
Or maybe an electro-magnet sequencing gun. I've toyed with the idea of building one. Even if I could only get say 750fps moving a 100gr bullet it would be rather unique. One in which the pols would have to change a lot of laws real quickly to cover.
-
H&K will lead the way in pricing. (with SIG trying to dethrone them) :P
The last H&K I handled shot very well. It was large, heavy and thick. (Not a 45c.) My SIG 220 was ligihter and shot every bit as well.
For the current century I think a thin, light polymer with very good ergonomics that is priced right will take the cake.
Maybe it will be the 4th or 5th Gen Glock.
Now if they would get rid of the finger grooves so my fingers won't ride on top of them and I don't have to grind them off.
You may get your wish with the Gen. 5. A friend just got back from an advanced armorer's course at Glock and the rumor is, although nobody would confirm this obviously, the Gen. 5 will also have replaceable front straps to go along with along with the backstraps. The rumor is it may be done in association with Magpul and will be very similar to the MIAD design where you can have 0/1/2 finger grooves, flat, swell etc. The backstraps will have different degrees of curve and swell and even a integral magwell and beavertail designs. I think this would put Glock over the top. I wish we would've stuck with Glock at work instead of switching to XDm's.
-
I agree with Tom on what we will be seeing:
The gun of the 21st Century will be one that is engineered by "geeks." We will see circuit boards; electronic firing mechanisms, there will be light sensors adjusting sights, there will be laser range and density finders, and I even see some sort of electromagnetic propulsion doing away with primers and powder and allowing for speed of bullet changes.
I hope it doesn't come in my lifetime, because I keep forgetting that the first rule of computer problems is to reboot. The last thing I need to worry about in a gun fight is to reboot the gun. I has got to be slower than tap and rack :-\
Oh, and micro engraving of the gun id and id of the shooter will be laser etched on every bullet, and there will be some type of RFI embedded in every bullet for location after the shot is taken >:(
Don't forget the imbedded biometric scanner to make sure a pre-authorized user is the one holding the handgun.
-
Phased plasma rifle, in 40 watt range. 8)
-
Don't forget the imbedded biometric scanner to make sure a pre-authorized user is the one holding the handgun.
And thus, "keep your powder dry" morphs into "keep your batteries charged." :(
-
They could also put a readout on the back of the slide giving you body temperature, pulse, blood pressure, (both diastolic and systolic) by way of sensors in the pistol grip. Might as well be able to monitor your health while you're destroying someone else's. This will be of major importance, especially if they're going to be raising the age of Social Security benefits. Bill T.
-
Don't forget the imbedded biometric scanner to make sure a pre-authorized user is the one holding the handgun.
I touched on that but didn't say it outright when I combined electronics with laser engraved id of shooter.
-
http://www.outdoorlife.com/articles/gear/2007/09/electronic-rifle-revisit
Remington tried all of that with the "Etronix". It used special primers in it's ammunition that fired electronically. Lock time was reduced to all but nothing. It was a total flop. Voere, tried caseless ammunition in a bolt action rifle. It also was a flop. Gun people are traditionalists. Look at how long it took the Glock, along with synthetic stocks to really gain acceptance. Electronics and guns just don't seem to mix. A bit like putting mag wheels and a spoiler on a stagecoach. Bill T.
True, but we have eighty-eight years, nine months and 30 days to perfect an existing prototype and for shooters to come around. I think Glock did it in far less time than that!
-
Sorry, all of the responses above are wrong. For the correct answer, click this link to see the "Metal Storm" technology which by the end of this century will be used to make THE 21st century handgun:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLNuBq0NQJE&feature=fvw
I look forward to seeing everyone agree with me ;-)
-
Sorry, all of the responses above are wrong. For the correct answer, click this link to see the "Metal Storm" technology which by the end of this century will be used to make THE 21st century handgun:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLNuBq0NQJE&feature=fvw
I look forward to seeing everyone agree with me ;-)
More than one of us referred to the Metal Storm technology in our responses. So, I don't know whether to be nasty to you for not catching it or to congratulate you for having a following that is actually ahead of you ;)
-
More than one of us referred to the Metal Storm technology in our responses. So, I don't know whether to be nasty to you for not catching it or to congratulate you for having a following that is actually ahead of you ;)
Busted, guilty as charged :-[ I did read previous posts but obviously not close enough.
-
Busted, guilty as charged :-[ I did read previous posts but obviously not close enough.
We speak in a special code around here. Somewhere around 1K posts you start to figure it out, but it doesn't totally make sense until M'ette sticks her preferred vehicle up your butt :o Then just before the monkeys come flying out the light bulb will come on ;D
-
We speak in a special code around here. Somewhere around 1K posts you start to figure it out, but it doesn't totally make sense until M'ette sticks her preferred vehicle up your butt :o Then just before the monkeys come flying out the light bulb will come on ;D
I am looking forward to being enlightened!
-
(http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm182/twyacht/Punisher-641x375.jpg)
As a certain member posted "who is known and yet may not be known".
"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."
Han Solo,
;D
-
http://www.outdoorlife.com/articles/gear/2007/09/electronic-rifle-revisit
Remington tried all of that with the "Etronix". It used special primers in it's ammunition that fired electronically. Lock time was reduced to all but nothing. It was a total flop. Voere, tried caseless ammunition in a bolt action rifle. It also was a flop. Gun people are traditionalists. Look at how long it took the Glock, along with synthetic stocks to really gain acceptance. Electronics and guns just don't seem to mix. A bit like putting mag wheels and a spoiler on a stagecoach. Bill T.
Bill, you are missing some facts, Colt's first revolver Company went broke, The "Patterson" while a technological innovation was a commercial flop. Glock did not invent the Polymer pistol, it's Steyr predecessor was a commercial flop.Those are just 2 examples off the top of my head.
The problem with caseless ammo (Walther has been working on it for decades ) seems to be residue fouling. the rest of the technology was pretty much perfected by Daisy back in the 60's. (I forget the designation, M25 will know, he's got one )
The electronics industry has advanced greatly since the "Etronix" which predates cell phone technology, let alone something like the Droid.
Another thing we may be overlooking is air guns. They are available now in rifles that will take most game. It woul not take much to convert that technology into a practical, reliable larger bore SD hand gun.
Another possibility is "Guided" ammunition.
-
I honestly can't see guided ammo, but we already have air bursting rounds that you can adjust the range.
if we get some type of new ( method or material) way to propell a bullet caseless is not a option. Atleast for anything other then "its cool".
one of the major issues( atleast in the US) for a electicaly fired gun is, the ATF calls it a machine gun if its a auto loader.( reality it might as well be as it would be super easy to make it so) bolts, levers, single shot and pumps are ok.
-
The electronics industry has advanced greatly since the "Etronix" which predates cell phone technology, let alone something like the Droid.
The Remington Etronix was introduced in 1999, and was commercially avaliable in 2000, barely a decade ago. It isn't so much the electronics as it is the primers. Regardless of the electronic or electric principals employed, you are basically using a electronically generated spark to fire the priming mixture instead of a percussion strike from a conventional firing pin. Not much different than a spark plug in a car. The only advantage to the whole concept was decreased lock time. Even that has minimal advantages. None what so ever in a hunting rifle. Electronics in a gun are a weak link, regardless of how advanced they are.
Caseless ammo had it's best shot in the Vulcan Rapid Fire Cannons. It was hoped it would eliminated a lot of jamming because only the back portion of the case itself that had the rim and held the primer was metallic. The rest was consumed on firing. As you mentioned the biggest problem to overcome was fouling. The gun managed to foul up well before a conventional cased weapon would jam up. Even on the big 30 MM guns it was very problematic.
The Caseless Ammo Daisy had was the VL-22 back in the 60's. It used compressed hot air much like a Diesel engine uses, to fire the caseless propellant that was attached to the back of the bullet and held there by a reverse taper cast or swaged on to the back of the slug itself. It was a neat little rifle. It's a nice collector piece today if you can find the ammo to go with it. Bill T.
-
When the break through happens, it won't be from an established company. It will be from someone with a better idea.
http://www.bobergarms.com/
http://www.kriss-tdi.com/products/kriss-crbso-45-acp.html
Right now, Taurus has the gun of the 21st century with their Judge series. Don't believe it. They got S&W to copy them.
-
Glock. ;)