The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: twyacht on March 03, 2011, 05:33:47 PM
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http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_crime/2011/02/10/2011-02-10_street_justice_bronx_man_allegedly_beating_his_babys_mother_fatally_shot_by_vigi.html?obref=obnetwork
Street justice: Bronx man allegedly beating his baby's mother fatally shot by vigilante passer-by
BY Bob Kappstatter, Joe Jackson and Rich Schapiro
DAILY NEWS WRITERS
Originally Published:Thursday, February 10th 2011, 1:58 PM
Updated: Thursday, February 10th 2011, 9:00 PM
A man beating up his baby's mother in the Bronx got a fatal dose of street justice when a man intervened and shot him in the face, police sources said Thursday.
David Williams was pummeling his 19-year-old gal pal outside a Morris Ave. housing complex about 8 p.m. Wednesday, when the pistol-packing Good Samaritan stepped up.
"What are you hitting her for?" the man asked Williams, according to a source. "Why don't you stop?"
Williams, 22, got in the unidentified man's face at the Patterson Houses and forcefully told him to mind his business.
"Mind my business?" the passerby responded.
Those were among the last words Williams heard. The man then whipped out a gun and shot Williams, of Spanish Harlem, once above his left eye, cops said.
The vigilante fled after the shooting.
Williams - who had 10 domestic violence arrests involving his mother and the baby's mother - was rushed to Lincoln Hospital, where he died. Police were hunting for the shooter last night.
Detectives questioned the woman, who is the mother of Williams' 3-year-old son, at the 40th Precinct stationhouse.
Several Patterson Houses residents said the building is a magnet for crime.
"There's a lot of shootings in this development," said Eric Harris, 53, a lifelong resident. "Hopefully, it will stop."
Anyone with information is asked to call Crime Stoppers at (800) 577-TIPS.
rschapiro@nydailynews.com
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Where's Charles Bronson....????? Death Wish (what sequel are we up to...) VIII? IX?
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Sounds like a good start to me.
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It sounds to me like the state had ten chances with this guy and failed. The bystander had no dog in this fight, but was just reinforcing the "you don't hit a girl" rule". Something the government should have gotten through his head. I have no use for Bronson types. You don't go looking for trouble. But this guy? If I knew who he was, I'd be dialing out for a pizza before I'd be dialing a tip line. The cops want to put the guy who protected a girl in jail when they failed to do so? F that.
FQ13
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I'd be looking real hard for the guy ;)
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You realize of course the "Good Samaritan" is a criminal ?
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You realize of course the "Good Samaritan" is a criminal ?
And the cops who let him go ten times before are to be respected why? Sorry Tom, it comes down to this. In a perfect world, the police would protect us and I wouldn't need to pack a Glock. However, they don't and I do. If in an extreme case like this, where a guy takes matters into his own hands? Well, I don't condone it, as if you let that slip too many times you wake up in Somalia, but just once? I see nothing, I hear nothing and I know nothing, and I won't lose sleep over it either.
FQ13
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You realize of course the "Good Samaritan" is a criminal ?
Legally, yes. Morally..........not in my book.
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There's legally right and then there's morally right. Sometimes they are the same thing. Sometimes they are not. If the shooter is caught, he needs to ask for a jury of his peers. I know I wouldn't vote to convict. I just don't think it should be much of a crime to take out the trash.
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Maybe just showing the gun would have helped the situation. Maybe not. But he didn't have to shoot the other guy in the face.
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Maybe just showing the gun would have helped the situation. Maybe not. But he didn't have to shoot the other guy in the face.
Chest shots would have done it.
I have mixed feelings reasoning on this. The face shot is going to be bad pr for sure. According to all our training and the warnings and teaching the shooter should not have gotten involved. However, where would our society be if we refused to step in when needed?
The problem is that even those of us that claim to be a part of the gun culture have become sensitized to use of the tool. As has been stated, he did the morally correct thing. How many of us say "When seconds count the police are only minutes away."?
This is one of those areas where none of us knows how we will react until faced with the situation. I had one of those a while back, and I somewhat surprised myself. Everything worked out, but it does give time for reflection. How will I react next time - I don't know!
I am glad that this guy did not get caught for now. I hope he is just a good guy doing the right thing, but I pray he isn't a bad guy that had a good moment that will come back to haunt us all.
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FQ exhibits his usual lack of reading comprehension. ::)
This was NY, Honest people in NY can't carry guns. Even if he had a CCW it doesn't make him a cop, since he was in no danger, he was not justified in shooting, since the article says "Detectives questioned the woman, who is the mother of Williams' 3-year-old son, at the 40th Precinct stationhouse." and makes no mention of hospital she apparently was also not "in imminent danger" so the defense of others is also not a valid defense for this gang banger to butt in and murder the guy.
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I read just fine Tom, even between the lines. Given the facts in the OP, all I can say is that karma can be a bitch and the prosecutor wouldn't want me on that jury, as the length of deliberations would be measured by the quality of the coffee. ;)
FQ13
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I read just fine Tom, even between the lines. Given the facts in the OP, all I can say is that karma can be a bitch and the prosecutor wouldn't want me on that jury, as the length of deliberations would be measured by the quality of the coffee. ;)
FQ13
And the cops who let him go ten times before are to be respected why? Sorry Tom, it comes down to this. In a perfect world, the police would protect us and I wouldn't need to pack a Glock. However, they don't and I do. If in an extreme case like this, where a guy takes matters into his own hands? Well, I don't condone it, as if you let that slip too many times you wake up in Somalia, but just once? I see nothing, I hear nothing and I know nothing, and I won't lose sleep over it either.
FQ13
This is one example of your stupidity, You live in a state that allows you to carry a Glock. This incident did not happen in Fl. it happened in NY city, where under most circumstances such conduct is the sort of crime that all of you should be jumping all over with the usual sniveling about "ammunition for the anti's". Remember how you all rant when the anti's talk about "Vigilante justice".
For all you people know the bitch may have needed a tune up.
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I don't know about NY, but in CA, you can use deadly force to protect some one else.
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This is one example of your stupidity, You live in a state that allows you to carry a Glock. This incident did not happen in Fl. it happened in NY city, where under most circumstances such conduct is the sort of crime that all of you should be jumping all over with the usual sniveling about "ammunition for the anti's". Remember how you all rant when the anti's talk about "Vigilante justice".
For all you people know the bitch may have needed a tune up.
Tom, think before posting. You don't hit a girl.Period! Its kind of the whole being a man not a punk thing... No one needs a "tune up".
FQ13
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Tom, think before posting. You don't hit a girl.Period! Its kind of the whole being a man not a punk thing... No one needs a "tune up".
FQ13
Posted by a college know it all who's never been married.
TAB, based on the story it does not seem that she was in danger of major injury or death.
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Posted by a college know it all who's never been married.
TAB, based on the story it does not seem that she was in danger of major injury or death.
from the sound of it she was, maybe not right then, but it was bound to happen.
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Posted by a college know it all who's never been married.
Never been divorced, and never raised my hand to a woman either. As for the "tune up" I'll send you to M'lette. ;D Not a a fan of the B word either, but maybe its a Southern thing. You don't hit a girl and you don't use that word in that context if you're a gentleman, end of story. College has nothing to do with it, its a lot deeper than that.
FQ13
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I never claimed to be a gentleman. As for hitting women I believe if I had knocked my ex on her ass once or twice I would probably still be married.
As for my choice of language, I don't care if it offends. I'm not a college graduate, I say what I mean in unmistakable language. I even call a "spade" a " f*cking shovel".
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tom wrote:
This was NY, Honest people in NY can't carry guns.
I have to disagree. There are permits issued in NY. A bunch of hoops to jump through yes, but they can be obtained.
Even if he had a CCW it doesn't make him a cop, since he was in no danger, he was not justified in shooting, since the article says "Detectives questioned the woman, who is the mother of Williams' 3-year-old son, at the 40th Precinct stationhouse." and makes no mention of hospital she apparently was also not "in imminent danger" so the defense of others is also not a valid defense for this gang banger to butt in and murder the guy.
I can only answer in the context of AZ laws, not being versed in NY law.
That said, protection of a 3rd party is entirely justifiable, and we in AZ have no "duty to warn."
The disparity of force between a woman and a man beating on her is obvious and places her in a definite catagory of imminent danger, just like getting attacked by 2 or more asshats would place us in the same boat.
No mention of a hospital could mean the assault was stopped in time for her not to need a hospital - another few seconds and it could have been much different. A head bounced off a sidewalk can be fatal
For all you people know the bitch may have needed a tune up.
I have been divorced 3 times. None of which ended up with me "giving the bitch a tune up", not that the thought didn't cross my mind.
Besides the fact I wasn't raised that way, you don't get to own a gun if you do. (Lautenberg)
There is no mention of any gangbanger being involved. Living in a crap area doesn't make you automatically a gangbanger.
I hope the guy is able to keep his mouth shut - by leaving, the legal system will crucify him.
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The deceased had been arrested for domestic violence against his mother.
Don't know if she also needed a tune up, but I'm sure this young fellow needed an adjustment....and he received the ultimate one.
I also don't know if the guy who stuck his nose into the beating is a scum bag or not, but this time he did his community a service.
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This is one example of your stupidity, You live in a state that allows you to carry a Glock
Sorry Tom but if I lived in the Bronx I would carry a gun legally or other wise.
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Tom, FQ, et al. you're missing the point. The guy was not shot because he was beating on the woman. The beater (aka "the punk) went after the Good Samaritan when the GS told the punk to stop the beating. That is when the weapon was drawn and fired. At that point, I would see my life being jeopardized and would draw as well.
As for the face shot, maybe the guy didn't have Gunsite, Thunder Ranch et al. credentials working for him, and he took the shot he had. Besides, there have been discussions here of the best way to end the fight is to mess with the brain's signals to the rest of the body. Lacking that, or unsure of the ability to make that shot, we take the CoM shots.
And yes, when I read the article, my first thought was that the GS is probably not entirely legal, CCW in NY and all, plus the neighborhood. At this point, I'm with a lot of the others, I would not vote to convict regardless of past.
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This is one example of your stupidity, You live in a state that allows you to carry a Glock
Sorry Tom but if I lived in the Bronx I would carry a gun legally or other wise.
Me too , but the "or otherwise" would make us criminals.
Even if the "Good Samaritan" were carrying legally, (Which I still highly doubt since he ran off ) This is a classic case of "You don't know all the facts" like MB has mentioned a few times on his podcast. The dead guy had been charged 10 times, but never convicted, (it would have mentioned if he had done time ) this was a normal occurrence, they fight, he slaps her around, she or the neighbors call the Cops who haul him off and charge him, then she declines to push it and the next day he's home again. 10 times only accounts for the times she, or the neighbors get pissed enough to bother calling the Cops, or they are still fighting when the cops get there, it does not count the times that went unreported, or the Cops just said, " oh, it's them again".
Pathfinder raises an excellent point "The guy was not shot because he was beating on the woman. The beater (aka "the punk) went after the Good Samaritan when the GS told the punk to stop the beating. "
In fact, by sticking his nose into the situation the shooter escalated the situation.
In most states a prosecutor would maintain that by interfering he escalated a more or less "regularly scheduled event" into a deadly encounter.
Even if he had a CCW, it is not a badge, Cities pay big bucks to have people (cops ) waiting around, trained for just such situations, and they show up in numbers greater than one. They are also equipped with things like Tazer's and clubs, so they have options other than a bullet to the head.
Even if the shooter were completely legal otherwise he will now at best have to worry about facing charges of some level of murder.
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If Marty Hayes of the Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network (as seen on TBD) offered to represent this guy and there was a collection to pay for representation, I would chip in a few $ for the cause. The more criminals that see the good guys winning and the bad guys losing (for a change) there might start to be a movement of people thinking twice twice about beating a woman (or anyone for that matter) in the future.
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But there is no indication that he was a good guy.
Sounds much more like crap on crap to me.
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Me too , but the "or otherwise" would make us criminals.
Tom,
OK. If the state wants me to become a criminal to protect my life and that of my family, I will happly oblige them and start acting like one.
I do agree it sounds like two not so nice folks colliding. I just don't have any tears for the victim.
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Not that my opinion matters all that much but I’ll throw it out there. Never hit a girl is BS... I’ll grant you, “Never hit a lady” but I will not give a free pass based on plumbing. Case in point from many, many years ago; intoxicated female(no connection to me at all) decided to go ape shit in a bar screaming at and hitting people as I attempted to leave she took a swipe at my face with her sharpened, lacquered claws. The knuckle strike to the solar plexus was totally called for.
The “B” word... yes sometimes it applies, see above.
Abused and abuser; the abuse is wrong but in many/most cases the abused is complicit in the cycle
As to our “good Sam”; based on where this event took place at the Patterson Houses I’m going to go out on a limb and say that he is as much a bad actor as the winner that got shot. These houses are run by the New York Housing Auth. and are crawling with gangs, drugs and all of the trappings that go with that. In my mind’s eye I can see the “mind my business!” followed by the 9 turned on its side and pointed at yahoo’s head.
Just my 2 cents worth.
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But there is no indication that he was a good guy.
Sounds much more like crap on crap to me.
Darwin effect!
I can live with that as well ;)
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Reading a little between the lines here....but I'd bet that the shooter and the shoot-ee knew each other...and I'd bet that the shooter knew that the police had been ineffective in this situation in the past. I might also bet that the shooter is somehow related to the punch-ee.
As for hitting women....same rules for SD apply with both sexes. And administering "attitude adjustments" with both fists is a fast track toward getting you in all sorts of trouble....legal and otherwise.
And Tom....I hope you're never in a situation where you're giving your lady friend an "attitude adjustment".....someone may just see that and decide that your attitude needs adjusting, too....
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I might need some therapy because I consider this a good news story and I smiled a little whilst reading it.
As for never hitting a woman......touchy subject, I have seen some woman that fly off and start beating on a bloke, I dont know how or why they (blokes) have taken it, I know in my own mind that they would only get the first one free after that its "if equality they want, equality is what they get".
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I might need some therapy because I consider this a good news story and I smiled a little whilst reading it.
As for never hitting a woman......touchy subject, I have seen some woman that fly off and start beating on a bloke, I dont know how or why they (blokes) have taken it, I know in my own mind that they would only get the first one free after that its "if equality they want, equality is what they get".
IIRC, the CDC stats about a decade ago show very close percentages between men beating women and women beating men, something like 53% vs. 47%. Not exactly the "evil men" meme promoted by the feminazi's.
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As a law officer it is not our place to decide punishment. The courts failed to put this peice of work in prison. The officers kept putting him in front of the judge and they did nothing to him. The courts failed not the police officers. It pisses me off to see stuff like this. The courts never get blamed for what they do they have police officers to be their fall guy.