The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Politics & RKBA => Topic started by: Hazcat on March 15, 2011, 06:22:33 AM
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By JACKIE CALMES
Published: March 14, 2011
--SNIP--
The effort follows Mr. Obama’s call, in a column on Sunday in a Tucson newspaper, to put aside “stale policy debates” and begin “a new discussion” on ways to better enforce and strengthen existing laws to keep mentally unstable, violent and criminal people from getting guns.
But the National Rifle Association, for decades the most formidable force against proposals to limit gun sales or ownership, is refusing to join the discussion — possibly dooming it from the start, given the lobby’s clout with both parties in Congress. Administration officials had indicated they expected that the group would be represented at a meeting, perhaps on Friday.
“Why should I or the N.R.A. go sit down with a group of people that have spent a lifetime trying to destroy the Second Amendment in the United States?” said Wayne LaPierre, the longtime chief executive of the National Rifle Association.
--SNIP--
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/15/us/politics/15guns.html
IMHO this is NOT the way to represent gun owners and the 2A.
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FMD,
you would think they should be there shouting from the hills about it
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Haz, last couple of times the NRA worked with .gov we got the 68 and 94 gun bans. I'd rather they resist, and say not only no to cooperating with .gov, but Hell No!
Oh, yeah, and the NRA can work positively with the kongress kritters to pass national reciprocity and to rein in eliminate the BATFE.
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BHO thinks that we should do a better job of enforcing the gun laws? The hypocrisy is strong in this one, it is. It must be nice to be able to select which laws you want to enforce. How about immigration, gay marriage, voter intimidation, etc. The list is a long one.
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Haz, last couple of times the NRA worked with .gov we got the 68 and 94 gun bans. I'd rather they resist, and say not only no to cooperating with .gov, but Hell No!
Oh, yeah, and the NRA can work positively with the kongress kritters to pass national reciprocity and to rein in eliminate the BATFE.
Lets start with something that will lessen the flow of American guns into Mexico.
Dam the "iron river" !
Abolish ATF !
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IMHO this is exactly what the NRA should do. By doing this they are saying we are not conceading anything to you. The NRA has always made a point about enforcing what's on the books already. IF I'd been La Pierre I would have said we don't deal with gunrunners in the statement, but that might have been a little childish
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IMHO this is NOT the way to represent gun owners and the 2A.
I would support Wayne going if he brought a large bag of manure and proceeded to turn it into a shit fight at the zoo.
The effort follows Mr. Obama’s call, in a column on Sunday in a Tucson newspaper, to put aside “stale policy debates” and begin “a new discussion” on ways to better enforce and strengthen existing laws to keep mentally unstable, violent and criminal people from getting guns.
The 2A is the 'stale policy'.
The 'new discussion' is more restrictions.
F@#K 'em. They want to turn the US into Chicago. (which STILL hasn't complied with a SCOTUS ruling)
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IMHO this is NOT the way to represent gun owners and the 2A.
Compromising with stupid people weakens your position and makes you just as stupid as they are.
This sends a message to Obummer.
"F*ck you, we won, and we continue to win".
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honestly, I would not have met with them either.
All that would be is a waste of both are time/money.
There is nothing to be gained for either side from a meetin.g
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I would like a seat at that table. I want to know what they are discussing. That is what the NRA is for!
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Just send Ted Nugent. That way, the conversation will at least be interesting, and if Helmke and other anti's have to suddenly change their underwear,...
well,........ ;)
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Haz,
I agree with you. We need to at least have a dialog and exchange of positions. However, the NRA has stated their stance and negotiated away too much over the years when they went to D.C.!
It is time for Pres. BHO to make an appointment with the NRA and go to Virginia to make his presentation to the entire NRA Board (Uncle Ted can moderate, and I'll buy tickets ;) ). We don't need to do anything but listen and and take all printed propaganda material. When he is done he should be told that we will be in touch to set an appointment for him to come back and get our response.
Beyond that it is up to Chris Cox to keep the courts full of cases fighting the infringements.
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http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Federal/Read.aspx?id=6421
On Sunday, March 13, the Arizona Star published an op-ed from President Barack Obama that discussed his belief that we should seek “agreement on gun reforms.”
Those “agreements” would almost certainly include new restrictions on the Second Amendment rights of the American people that are unneeded and unacceptable for law-abiding gun owners.
Executive Vice President Wayne LaPierre and NRA-ILA Executive Director Chris W. Cox responded to the President in a letter delivered to the White House on March 14
http://www.nraila.org/pdfs/obamaletter314.pdf
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I would like a seat at that table. I want to know what they are discussing. That is what the NRA is for!
It's a waste of time, they want to take our guns away and will lie endlessly to accomplish something that only a very small minority still believe in .
Mean while the rest of us just say F*ck you.
NRA has over 5 million members donating a minimum of $35/year.
Brady has a membership of 25,000 donating an average of $25/ year.
When NRA says screw you and stays home, not only are there no "discussions", there aren't even any chairs.
M58, Dialog ? Are you foolish ? Fu*k them, we have the guns, they better kiss our asses.
Didn't you learn anything from the NFA, GCA, or the Clinton AWB ?
Talking to these azzholes is a losing proposition.
Do you want a magazine ban ? Do you want ammo registered ?
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When NRA says screw you and stays home, not only are there no "discussions", there aren't even any chairs.
Your right, however, Uncle Ted would fit the table discussion so well,... ::)
There are hundreds of millions of gun owners in this country, and not one of them will have an accident today. The only misuse of guns comes in environments where there are drugs, alcohol, bad parents, and undisciplined children. Period.
Ted Nugent
"You mean to say that when an imbecile walks into a church, office, day care center, or school, stumbling about, almost zombie-like, with gun-filled hands at his side, blabbering incoherently to his next victim, the reaction of grown men and women is to run, cry, whimper, and hide under a desk or pew? The sheeping of America is nearly complete."
"How many more times are we going to cower under tables and chairs, whimpering like mindless dogs, thinking that someone else has the responsibility to save and protect us?"
(Mr. Helmke).....
"And don't believe for a minute the wild-ass lies of [anti-gun/anti-Second Amendment folks'] stoned leaders like Jann Wenner of "Rolling Stoned" magazine. As head honcho of Cease Fire, this goofball blatantly manipulates and controls the words and pages of his powerful publications under the bulletproof umbrella of the First Amendment while he laughs out loud wiping his ass with the Second... Though oft repeated in rags like his, a handgun IS NOT forty-seven times more likely to kill a family member, unless of course, you and the whole tribe are in the crack runnin' trade and/or on parole as a lifestyle. That ramrod figure is as false as Jann's wedding vows. After he left his wife and children to go off into the sunset, ass in hand, with his new boyfriend, he turned up his antigun heat by increasing his hateful editorials and free magazine ad space with outrageous twisted lies about guns and gun owners."
The war is coming to the streets of America and if you are not keeping and bearing and practicing with your arms then you will be helpless and you will be the victim of evil.
Gee Tom,...I would think this is a sound idea,....
Send Uncle Ted...Make them gasp, say Oh, SH**, shake their heads, and say to BHO,....."This may have been a bad idea;"....
8)
Re-read the 2nd Amend. and ask why is your "hood" in Chicago in such violations of SCOTUS rulings....????
Throw it in their face and make them defend it.
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Thing is TW, they don't believe that BS any more than we do.
Less in fact, because they actually sit around making it up while we go looking for facts and references, so if you sit down and make them defend it they will just say "But it's for the children", if you're against this you must hate kids.
As Herman Cain so eloquently put it at CPAC they only use 3 tactics, (actually 4, he left out violent attacks )
Shift the subject, Pro 2nd A = Anti Children
Ignore the facts, More legal guns may or may not lead to less crime, but fewer legal guns DO lead to more crime.
Name calling, "Gun nut", "Racist", "Baby killer".
One thing I want to comment on that is a little off topic. I'm reading Stephen Hunter's book "American Gunfight" about the 11-1-1950 attempt on Harry Truman by 2 Puerto Rican Nationalists, (Shoot out at the Blair house ).
In one chapter he looks at the psychology of presidential attackers, from Booth to Hinkley,
"You mean to say that when an imbecile walks into a church, office, day care center, or school, stumbling about, almost zombie-like, with gun-filled hands at his side, blabbering incoherently to his next victim, the reaction of grown men and women is to run, cry, whimper, and hide under a desk or pew? The sheeping of America is nearly complete."[/b]
Only 3 have not fit somewhere in that description, Booth and the 2 Puerto Ricans, they were the only ones who, previously normal, popular, and well adjusted, acted for purely political reasons. As Oscar Collazo told a Secret service agent, "I did not come here to harm Harry Truman, I came to kill the American President". It wasn't personal .
The others have all been like Jared Luaphner, maladjusted, loser, outsiders, trying to become important, if only for a minute by commiting an act of violence that is more about them than about the office of the person they are attacking..
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They are up to NO GOOD! If the NRA goes to the meeting they will be accepting the premise of the meeting which is to put more restrictions upon lawful gun ownership by law abiding citizens.
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It's just like "Reaching across the aisle" in congress, it's a sucker move that never results in more liberty.
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I would like a seat at that table. I want to know what they are discussing. That is what the NRA is for!
Not when Obama and the MSM will spin it into participation and support for "common sense firearms regulation". The NRA is making the smart move here....maybe they should even hold a counter-meeting to discuss what gun laws should be abolished, the shutdown of the BATFE, and the political consequences for any politician who supports Obama's move.....
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We need some T-Shirts.
Across the top "Want to Discuss Common Sense Firearms Restrictions?"
Across the bottom, "There, I've had my say."
And in between, Crusader's Avatar.
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We need some T-Shirts.
Across the top "Want to Discuss Common Sense Firearms Restrictions?"
Across the bottom, "There, I've had my say."
And in between, Crusader's Avatar.
;D
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In the scheme of things, I understand why the NRA did what they did. BHO's anti-gun history, and being in the same room with the Joyce Foundation, and the Brady Bunch, would make me ill.
Watch Cass Susstein, aka Regulatory Czar,....anti hunter, anti gun, and the Executive Orders, that would bypass Congress, via the Huffington Post.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/15/obama-gun-laws-congress_n_836138.html
With Reporting By Lucia Graves
WASHINGTON -- Faced with a Congress hostile to even slight restrictions of Second Amendment rights, the Obama administration is exploring potential changes to gun laws that can be secured strictly through executive action, administration officials say.
The Department of Justice held the first in what is expected to be a series of meetings on Tuesday afternoon with a group of stakeholders in the ongoing gun-policy debates. Before the meeting, officials said part of the discussion was expected to center around the White House's options for shaping policy on its own or through its adjoining agencies and departments -- on issues ranging from beefing up background checks to encouraging better data-sharing.
Administration officials said talk of executive orders or agency action are among a host of options that President Barack Obama and his advisers are considering. “The purpose of these discussions is to be a productive exchange of good ideas from folks across the spectrum,” one official said. “We think that’s a good place to start.”
Earlier in the day, House Democrats joined New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg to offer another possible starting point, announcing legislation that would make fundamental changes to the nation’s gun background check system. Sponsored by Rep. Carolyn McCarthy (D-N.Y.), a longtime gun control advocate, the bill mirrors one introduced late last month by another New York Democrat, Sen. Chuck Schumer.
“Too often, any serious discussion about guns devolves into ideological arguments that have nothing to do with the real problem,” Bloomberg, a co-founder of the coalition Mayors Against Illegal Guns, told reporters at a press event outside the Capitol. “Our coalition strongly believes in the Second Amendment. We also know from experience that we can keep guns away from dangerous people without imposing burdens on law-abiding gun owners."
For gun control advocates, however, executive action remains a more promising -- albeit more limited -- vehicle for reform than Congress. On Monday, The Huffington Post first reported that the Justice Department was convening meetings with groups from across the ideological spectrum in an effort to chart potential policy changes to Second Amendment law.
The discussions were meant to build a broad coalition around the elements of reform Obama had outlined a day earlier in an op-ed for the Arizona Daily Star, including stronger state-to-state coordination, expedited background checks and greater enforcement of the laws already on the books, especially with regard to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System.
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Watch it folks, and Cass Susstein. Banning foreign ammo imports, can be done with Exec. Order,... combined with a Tuscon plea for our children.......
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Bloomberg did a lot of Susstein's legwork for him. Reportedly, Nanny Bloomie sent bho a letter outlining 40 things that can be changed through EO, without discussion, without voting, without anything other than bho's signature.
My question is - where are the lawsuits? If bho or one of his czars implements an EO, where are the people suing the .gov to stop it? Remember, FDR's highly illegal EO to intern the Japanese-Americans during WWII was overturned - eventually - as illegal through legal challenges. So how come with all of the damage that is being done, people aren't suing .gov?
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Because they are gutless sheep who would rather get in the cattle cars as long as they "Get to the East" in time for "Dancing with the Stars".
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Liberal/Progressive playbook re-election strategy......Go back to your base...
The Independents, even Moderates, are internally polling at the DNC/BHO headquarters, at lows that would make Rasmussen cry,...
They have no one left but the Unions, and uber Left.....
Scare the seniors with the same ol' line that Republicans will deny you Social Security, slash your Medicaid/Medicare, and leave you choosing between food and medicine.
They will also count on the low information voter, ....."I won't have to worry about my mortgage payment, or putting gas in my car" voter.
This one will be a true scheme. The Republicans have yet to show me, IMHO, true testicular fortitude, and start making the Dems defend what they rammed and crammed last year.
Marco Rubio R-FL, asked last week, "Why am I even here",......as the Rep. Party kinda does what they have always done,....and play nice...
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Liberal/Progressive playbook re-election strategy......Go back to your base...
The Independents, even Moderates, are internally polling at the DNC/BHO headquarters, at lows that would make Rasmussen cry,...
They have no one left but the Unions, and uber Left.....
Scare the seniors with the same ol' line that Republicans will deny you Social Security, slash your Medicaid/Medicare, and leave you choosing between food and medicine.
They will also count on the low information voter, ....."I won't have to worry about my mortgage payment, or putting gas in my car" voter.
This one will be a true scheme. The Republicans have yet to show me, IMHO, true testicular fortitude, and start making the Dems defend what they rammed and crammed last year.
Marco Rubio R-FL, asked last week, "Why am I even here",......as the Rep. Party kinda does what they have always done,....and play nice...
BHO did not win the last election, The Republicans threw it by running that Party hack RINO McCain.
If they keep talking about Trump, Newt, and that scumbag Romney they will do it again in 2012.
Obummer can not possibly win reelection. But that doesn't mean the Republicans can't lose to him.
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Talking with the unreasonable never results in a satisfactory conclusion.
Gun Control advocates are unreasonable. Hence, there is no need to "dialogue" with them. In the past, every time we sat down with them we, gun owners, have gotten the short end of the stick in a place not too comfortable.
Biker