The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Handguns => Topic started by: fullautovalmet76 on April 06, 2011, 09:49:46 PM
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One of these will go into my Government 1911. It came with three extra power firing pin springs. Do I need to replace this too? I want to shoot the gun in competition, so I'm wondering what else will need to do.
Changing the recoil spring is easy. It's the other stuff I'm not sure about.
Thanks!
-FA
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You need to give us a few more details please. About the base gun and what type of competition.
Richard
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FA, changing the firing pin springs is easy, all you need it a small punch to push the firing pin in then slide the firing pin keeper down carefully so the firing pin and spring don't launch themselves once the keeper is removed, reinstall in reverse order.
all the usual disclaimers apply for safety.
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You need a heavy duty firing pin spring with a heavier recoil spring because the slide slams hard enough to move the firing pin. I don't know why you would need it for a lighter recoil spring.
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Always have had noticeable improvements with Wolff springs. Had my S&W full size 1911, Walther PPK/S, and EAA Witness compact .40 all Wolff'd.....
Very reliable tutorial that may help. Changing the firing pin spring on a Kimber 1911.
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You need to give us a few more details please. About the base gun and what type of competition.
Richard
I have a STI Spartan in 45 ACP. I am currently shooting it in USPSA in L-10. The load I'm using is 230 gr ball on 4.1 gr. of Ramshot Competition; OAL of 1.255".
I hope that helps more. Thanks for your's and everyone's suggestions.
-FA
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So you're near the max load and you want a reduced power recoil spring WHY???
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So you're near the max load and you want a reduced power recoil spring WHY???
Well as I understand it, a reduced spring on a reduced load will offer a shorter cycle time on the slide thereby allowing faster recovery to get back on target. I didn't think I would need to change much on the spring, maybe down to 15 or 14 pounds. I was wondering if there were any other springs that needed to be changed, other than the firing ping spring (if that), in order to get proper performance from the gun. That's really what I was trying to focus on.
I don't want this to get off on ballistics, which would move it to the Reloading forum, but I would like to know what is/are the downside(s)? Thanks for your help!
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FA,
I'm scratching my head on your load and spring choice.
MAX LOAD FOR RAMSHOT COMPETITION POWDER is a 230 grain bullet over 4.0 grains of powder. This will give you a power factor of 185 (20 above need for major). You are adding another grain of powder to that.
You have picked the fastest burning of the Ramshot powders.
#1 - If you are going to stay with this load make sure you are running a buffer! You are going to beat your gun to pieces, and a light recoil spring will just make it worse.
My recommendation, and this is just my opinion based off my experience, Stay with Ramshot, drop down to a 155 grain semi wadcutter moly or jacketed hollow point if you can find them, and dial in your powder for a 1,095 fps average. This will give you a 169 power factor.
From my research the above load is within SAMI and Ramshot specs for reloading, but I will leave it up to you to decide if it is right for you.
Fast burning powder pushing a light bullet fast will give you less felt recoil. You will need to play with the springs to see what is 100% reliable, but I would add the buffer if you go to the lighter spring.
In my open gun I am throwing 155 grain at a power factor of nearly 200, and I use a light spring and a buffer. However, with the compensator I need that power to operate. Even with that power it is smooth and low felt recoil. With your stock (basically) 1911 you don't need racing fuel. Pump gas will run you just fine even with these minimal modifications.
Last thought - Experimenting with springs is like finding a holster you like: You can end up with a box full of "experience" before you know it ;) Enjoy the experiment, keep lots of notes in a permanent notebook for the gun, and don't be afraid to back up and start over.
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m58, he is just 1/10'gr over max not 1 gr. But, I agree with you...it is not a reduced load and shouldn't require a different recoil spring.
FA, did you crono that load? Is it from a published manual? Hodgdon has reloading data available on the web...check it out. I am not familure with Ramshot so I can't comment too much.
FWIW
Richard
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Well as I understand it, a reduced spring on a reduced load will offer a shorter cycle time
From the Ramshot site: http://www.ramshot.com/powders/loadguide/Ramshot4.5.pdf
45 Auto (ACP)
Barrel: 5" ■ Twist: 1-16" ■ Primer: FED 150 ■ Bullet Dia.: .451"
Jacketed Bullets start load max load
Competition 230 SIE FMJ 3.8 694 4.2 771 19,620 1.250
You are .1 gr below max - that is NOT a "reduced load".
A reduced power spring will let your gun beat the hell out of itself.
If the brass is just dribbling out of the ejection port and falling at your feet, THAT is a reduced load.
If it flings brass like a factory load, you don't need lower power on your recoil spring.
CHRONO YOUR LOADS!
M58:Stay with Ramshot, drop down to a 155 grain semi wadcutter moly or jacketed hollow point if you can find them, and dial in your powder for a 1,095 fps average. This will give you a 169 power factor.
Where did you find 155gr 45 bullets for reloading?
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FA,
I'm scratching my head on your load and spring choice.
MAX LOAD FOR RAMSHOT COMPETITION POWDER is a 230 grain bullet over 4.0 grains of powder. This will give you a power factor of 185 (20 above need for major). You are adding another grain of powder to that.
You have picked the fastest burning of the Ramshot powders.
#1 - If you are going to stay with this load make sure you are running a buffer! You are going to beat your gun to pieces, and a light recoil spring will just make it worse.
My recommendation, and this is just my opinion based off my experience, Stay with Ramshot, drop down to a 155 grain semi wadcutter moly or jacketed hollow point if you can find them, and dial in your powder for a 1,095 fps average. This will give you a 169 power factor.
From my research the above load is within SAMI and Ramshot specs for reloading, but I will leave it up to you to decide if it is right for you.
Fast burning powder pushing a light bullet fast will give you less felt recoil. You will need to play with the springs to see what is 100% reliable, but I would add the buffer if you go to the lighter spring.
In my open gun I am throwing 155 grain at a power factor of nearly 200, and I use a light spring and a buffer. However, with the compensator I need that power to operate. Even with that power it is smooth and low felt recoil. With your stock (basically) 1911 you don't need racing fuel. Pump gas will run you just fine even with these minimal modifications.
Last thought - Experimenting with springs is like finding a holster you like: You can end up with a box full of "experience" before you know it ;) Enjoy the experiment, keep lots of notes in a permanent notebook for the gun, and don't be afraid to back up and start over.
On my way to work, so just some, hopefully, random, coherent responses....
Thanks M58 for some very interesting info. I chrono'd my loads at about 740 - 760 fps; MAD was around 18 fps. Since I'm relatively new to reloading and competition reloading, I was trying to give myself a cushion. I chose the 230 grain bullet because I thought it would give me reduced recoil, but as I'm finding out, that may or may not be the case. I am using a buffer. And with this load I noticed my perceived/felt recoil is lighter than WWB (my baseline). I have wondered why some use lighter bullets in their setups and you just gave me some clues. Now I'm going to experiment with lighter bullets.
With Area 6 a week away anyhow, I'm not going to make any changes because the gun is cycling reliably and I'm used to it where it is. I figured lightening the spring is an easy mod that I can determine quickly if it will benefit me with my setup; sounds like it won't with the current setup. But that's all part of the learning process I guess.
Thanks again!
-FA
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From the Ramshot site: http://www.ramshot.com/powders/loadguide/Ramshot4.5.pdf
45 Auto (ACP)
Barrel: 5" ■ Twist: 1-16" ■ Primer: FED 150 ■ Bullet Dia.: .451"
Jacketed Bullets start load max load
Competition 230 SIE FMJ 3.8 694 4.2 771 19,620 1.250
You are .1 gr below max - that is NOT a "reduced load".
A reduced power spring will let your gun beat the hell out of itself.
If the brass is just dribbling out of the ejection port and falling at your feet, THAT is a reduced load.
If it flings brass like a factory load, you don't need lower power on your recoil spring.
CHRONO YOUR LOADS!
M58:
Where did you find 155gr 45 bullets for reloading?
Billy Bullets
http://www.billybullets.com (http://www.billybullets.com)
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Billy Bullets
http://www.billybullets.com (http://www.billybullets.com)
Thank you! They're even local. ;D
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Thank you! They're even local. ;D
That is how I found them! I was in your backyard, saw their fliers all over the range, and the reload recipes for a gun I bought used them in one load. He has always been a great guy to deal with.
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Speaking from a "factory" load position, I do have a question or two, regarding the OP.
1) Do Custom Reloads, in a tweaked pistol make "that" much of a difference.
2) Would "factory" loads, in a tweaked pistol, be "that" much different?
From my own tweaked 1911 exp. I can shoot milsurp ball, Wolf, Federal HST's, Georgia Arms, Blazer, Winchester, etc,... and only blame myself for not shooting better. The pistol is combat accurate, a tack driver, if I shot better,...and I was curious as to performance.
I'm just asking, as my shooting partner is going to start reloading soon, and I want to kinda jump in when he does.
Thanks.
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I don't notice that much difference in my stock guns. The only reason I change from straight factory loads is that I like to stay with one powder. I use the 155 grain swc in the open gun, and I use a 165 grain jhp in the 1911's. The biggest reason is that if I goof and grab a handful of the wrong cartridge I know right away while I'm loading magazines.
I like the lighter ball ammunition because with the fast burning power and lighter bullet it gets on target faster. I know that when shooting between thirty and 200 feet a couple hundred feet per second is not that big a deal in waiting for a "ding" before moving to the next set of targets. When your shooting a Texas Star or a bank of steel it is cool to hear two or three dings before the movements start (at the Pro-Am I hit all four 60 yard poppers before the first one started moving, and there are lots of stages where that happens) ;D There is also a little man in the back of my skull that thinks that fast powder and light bullet doesn't recoil as hard, and as long as he is happy I don't flinch ... as much :-[
Basically what I'm saying is that I believe that in a stock or near stock gun shot what ever shoots well. I can run yellow box Remington and Magtech, as well as any brand, through my stock guns all day everyday. When reloading work up a basic load that you are comfortable with and stick with it until you need to change.