The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Politics & RKBA => Topic started by: twyacht on April 08, 2011, 07:55:54 PM
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If there is a shut down, and "Non-Essential" gov't workers are furlowed.....Shouldn't OUR gov't have NO non-essential personnel?
The sad fact is the military pay is used like a pawn on a chess board.
Boehner passed a one week extension, with military funding for the rest of the fiscal year, $12 Billion in cuts,, including Planned Parenthood, NPR, etc,...
Reid is ignoring the offer, and BHO said he would veto it. Since the Dems. kicked the can last fiscal budget, and the Rep's are doing what they were elected to do.....Should the Conservatives, make them defend more spending....Like in their face? Or play the compromise game that have fallen for in the past...
Thoughts?
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The sky isn't falling, the sun will rise tomorrow, they have nothing that I need and my family will still love me regardless. I don't worry about anything out of my direct control. If the Feds can't get out of the way, maybe the 3% can motivate them.
The government can kiss my big white Irish ass. Obama, Reid, Pelosi, Boenher and McConnell have had a year to resolve this and they are all to blame.
I'm on Boenher and McConnells side in this but nothing is going to change.
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The less they do the less our azzes hurt.
What makes Govt. Budget any different than a house hold budget ?
If we have no more money we cut out everything we don't absolutely need to spend. In this Govt created inflation and shaky job market all us citizens are facing it.
Why shouldn't the Gov cut spending to the bone ?
Suck part is that like cities, instead of cutting back on deadwood and cronies, they cut Fire and Police .
Instead of doing away with useless paper shufflers the Gov will cut the defense budget and leave at the mercy of TSA >:(
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Today, the state of CT was already discussing how long they can function WITHOUT Federal monies. This steal (tax) and spend mentality has destroyed this country!
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OTOh, there wlll be a lot of collateral damage in terms of worker bees not gettng paid. It also hurts states. The last time this happened, the Az governor tried to send in the NG to open and man the Grand Canyon (you gotta love it) but he lost in federal court. To me, if the dispute is just about money, reasonable folks should be able to get out their calculators and figure out a settlement. Problem for both partes is no voter likes this crap. They are playing catch wth a lit stick of dynamite and hoping it goes off in the other guy's hand. Its not a game a smart person plays voluntarily.
FQ13
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OTOh, there wll be a lot of collateral damage in terms of worker bees not gettng paid. It also hurts states. The last time this happened, the Az governor tried to send n the NG to open and man the Grand Canyon (you gotta love it) but he lost in federal court. To me, if the dispute is just about money, reasonable folks should be able to get out their calculators and figure out a settlement. Problem for both partes is no voter lkes this crap. They are playing catch wth a lit stick of dynamite and hopng it goes off n the other guy's hand. Its not a game a smart person plays voluntaily.
FQ13
With the exception of the Military, civilian Federal workers can blow me!
Get off my dime.....
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You may call them "Worker Bee's".
But to the rest of us they are more like Drones.
The problem is that they can't manage money to save their (or our ) asses . What congress should do is vote half the requested money and say "That's what you get, make it last".
Tim, It's FQ, did you expect anything else ? ::)
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The hypocrisy, (imagine that in politicians) is that to return to 2008 spending levels is: HELLO a Dem majority budget. No old people died in the streets scavenging dog food, all the checks still went out.
AND the military was paid,......the 87 Representatives that were elected to STOP THE MADNESS, with a handful of Senators, are standing firm...
NO compromise, make the Dems defend it. Throw it in their face every day, this will not be 1994. The Dems haven't offered ANY alternative, just like last year,....they just whine like toddlers, when their toys (our money) is taken away.
Socialism is great,....until you run out of other people's money.
Margaret Thatcher.
Republican's need to grow a pair and stop this crap...The majority of Americans are tired of them all.
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Good luck TW. I just think the GOP is overplaying its hand, just like BO did. Neither party wants to admit that few people voted FOR them, they just wanted to throw the bums out. The House changing hands twice in 4 years is a pretty clear indication of that. This will piss the average voter off even more if they view this as politicians more concerned about winning elections by making the other side look bad than they are about being responsible managers (which would seem to be the correct view). If I were Donald Trump, I'd think about pulling a Perot right about now. The country hates Congress, they don't trust politicians and public food fights like this just fuel that anger. As I said, playing catch with dynamite is not a safe sport. I don't think the party leadership on either side gets this. As far as the GOP and Dem leaders? They are the same old faces from the same safe seats that created this mess. If I were a freshman of either party from a purple district, I'd be carrying a baseball bat and going to have a "chat" with either Boehner or Reid right about now.
FQ13
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Tim, It's FQ, did you expect anything else ? ::)
Nope!
But....he's on the mark that the voters aren't going to take it much longer. Boehner and McConnell need to stay focused or it will backfire!
Or, as you've pointed out repeatedly, they're (the voters ) too stupid to notice...
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I agree with your last post FQ. Dems are now touting Republicans want to starve seniors, and KILL women. Same ol' same ol'.
The Republicans blame the overspending Dems that offer no alternative....(which they kinda do)...
We have now gotten into a pissing contest over BILLIONS, while our deficits and spending are in the TRILLIONS,.....
Talking Heads song: "Same as it ever was".....
I agree with the freshman class and baseball bats,....it used to be tar and feathering.
However, the low information voter,....more interested in American Idol, and what the Royal Wedding will be like,....carry too much weight in our electorate.
Used to be property owners and men could vote. I'll concede the right to vote to women and all races WITH ID,.....but the property/business owner should yield better results, not the "I won't have to worry about paying my mortgage, or putting gas in my car voter"....
Here's a thought:
TERM LIMITS
LINE ITEM VETO
FAIR/FLAT TAX
DRILL NOW
Gee, that was hard.....and solves 70% of our problems.
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OTOh, there wlll be a lot of collateral damage in terms of worker bees not gettng paid. It also hurts states. The last time this happened, the Az governor tried to send in the NG to open and man the Grand Canyon (you gotta love it) but he lost in federal court. To me, if the dispute is just about money, reasonable folks should be able to get out their calculators and figure out a settlement. Problem for both partes is no voter likes this crap. They are playing catch wth a lit stick of dynamite and hoping it goes off in the other guy's hand. Its not a game a smart person plays voluntarily.
FQ13
Welcome to the private sector boys and girls!
I feel for almost anybody that gets a cut in one way or another, but don't make me listen to government babies whine about how tough it is!
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Here's a thought:
TERM LIMITS
LINE ITEM VETO
FAIR/FLAT TAX
DRILL NOW
Gee, that was hard.....and solves 70% of our problems.
The only disagreement I have with you is "Term Limits." I used to believe that, but continuity in the Legislative Branch is important. I don't want to lose a good servant just because he has been around six or eight years. Now with Sen. Kennedy we could have lost him now and then regardless of what his fans voted, but that is part of citizen responsibility. I have even thought that Congressional terms might be too short.
Let the election cycle be the term limit.
I don't know - When we have good reps I want life terms, but when we get an idiot I want it to be a limit of two, six month terms.
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On the military pay and support issue - This is becoming a major talking point on the left. Unless some one in the House, Senate or Pres. BHO does something stupid, the military is a protected group. Active members and their families will continue to be served. Vets may experience delays with existing, and especially with new claims.
I heard that there have been threats from the holy one's office and from a few others that they will cut the military off to harm the Republicans (that is not really what they are calling them).
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I think the biggest fear of gov shut down is that people will realize how little they are needed.
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The only disagreement I have with you is "Term Limits." I used to believe that, but continuity in the Legislative Branch is important. I don't want to lose a good servant just because he has been around six or eight years. Now with Sen. Kennedy we could have lost him now and then regardless of what his fans voted, but that is part of citizen responsibility. I have even thought that Congressional terms might be too short.
Let the election cycle be the term limit.
I don't know - When we have good reps I want life terms, but when we get an idiot I want it to be a limit of two, six month terms.
Its funny. You and I are exact opposites on this. I used to oppose them for the reasons you mentioned. I always said that their terms were limited by the Constitution and it was up to the voters to throw the bums out. Problem is, the fundraising system stacks the deck so high in favor of incumbents that I've done almost a complete 180. I agree that extending terms to limit the perpetual need to raise money might be wise. Say, four years for a rep and eight for a Senator. But beyond that, limit them to two or at most three terms. You'd still have some institutional memory in the body, but not folks camping out for decades and also limit the 24/7 need to raise cash. I'm not a hundred percent convinced this is the right thing, but I'm getting there.
FQ13
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well, the poll and all the other hype was all for naught.............reached a resolution.
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Its funny. You and I are exact opposites on this. I used to oppose them for the reasons you mentioned. I always said that their terms were limited by the Constitution and it was up to the voters to throw the bums out. Problem is, the fundraising system stacks the deck so high in favor of incumbents that I've done almost a complete 180. I agree that extending terms to limit the perpetual need to raise money might be wise. Say, four years for a rep and eight for a Senator. But beyond that, limit them to two or at most three terms. You'd still have some institutional memory in the body, but not folks camping out for decades and also limit the 24/7 need to raise cash. I'm not a hundred percent convinced this is the right thing, but I'm getting there.
FQ13
New poll:
Is anyone surprised that FQ13 and I are on opposite sides of a political discussion:
No
or
No
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Another New Poll,
Is any one surprised that FQ disagreed with every one else who voted or posted ?
No,
Hell No
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Another New Poll,
Is any one surprised that FQ disagreed with every one else who voted or posted ?
No,
Hell No
I vote Hell No!!!
I wasn't getting fancy with colors. I picked the type style "moron" ;D
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New poll:
Is anyone surprised that FQ13 and I are on opposite sides of a political discussion:
No
or
No
Here's the rub M58. Since we have reversed our positions on this issue, one of us has gotten smarter and one of us has gotten dumber. Either way, we either were or are wrong ;). Given that you are showing more trust in Congress and I am showing less........ ;D
FQ13
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Prez Sock Puppet says "a histortic cut in spending."
After the meteoric rise of fed spending and the deficit, this pittance may be about as 'historic' as pissing in the ocean.
14+ TRILLION in debt and you still have a checkbook? Really?
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Normally, I would say let them shut down. If they're not going to do their jobs, then we need to stop paying them and have a wake up call.
In this one instance, I'm extremely glad they did not shut down and hope they don't for the next 6 months. I admittedly have a very selfish, once in a lifetime reason behind keeping the government running for now.
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WE HAVE A WINNER ! ! ! ! !
I think the biggest fear of gov shut down is that people will realize how little they are needed.
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Ok, I'd rate that as about 1/3 old school conpiracy theory (jews, Masons, etc., take your pick ::)), 1/3 hucksterism (buy my inflated gold coins) and 1/3 truth. :-\ Kind of hard to argue with that last third though.
FQ13
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http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/breaking-news/top-us-lawmaker-announces-budget-deal/story-e6frea7c-1226036442953
US House Speaker John Boehner told fellow Republicans he had reached a deal with the White House to avert a government shutdown with barely more than an hour to spare, officials said.
"We have a deal," Boehner told Republican representatives on Friday night local time during an emotionally charged meeting behind closed doors, according to one lawmaker and an aide inside the talks.
Two senior Senate Democratic aides confirmed that lawmakers and the White House had reached an overall deal to slash some $US38.5 billion ($36.86 billion) in spending in the rest of the fiscal year that ends on October 1.
The overall accord also removed what Democrats had characterised as the biggest stumbling block - a Republican-crafted measure stripping federal funding from the Planned Parenthood clinics that provide abortions.
With barely more than an hour before a midnight deadline triggering a painful government shutdown, the two sides also agreed to work out a short-term "bridge" funding measure to keep Washington in business for a few days while the main deal is written up
wow I know it has gone to shit over there, did not realise it was that bad though...
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hasn't this also happened before back in 95 / 96
who was at the helm of the titanic then ???
so how is the rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic going
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And always remember to watch the left hand.
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hasn't this also happened before back in 95 / 96
who was at the helm of the titanic then ???
so how is the rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic going
In 95 we shut down and nobody noticed. When they worked the deal all the laid off workers got back pay (paid to sit on their butts and do nothing - typical work day for many federal employees) plus many got overtime pay as they ramped back up (apparently turning the lights and thermostats back up took lots of extra time). However, the Dems made hay with it at election time. This week needs to be remembered and the remaining Dems held to task in 2012, because this was all caused by them not doing their jobs last fall!
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Term limits, can be adjusted for time. Length of term is too short in House of Reps. and too long in the Senate. However, the Robert Byrds, Strom Thurmonds, Ted Kennedy's, aka career politicians have to know at some point:
THEY CAN"T RUN ANYMORE.....
The gerrymandering, and district manipulations, enables this,....ex. Pelosi, Rangel, Debbie Wasserman Schultz, etc,...ad nauseum.
Pelosi could throw kittens off the Bay Bridge, and STILL get re-elected. >:(
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Term limits, can be adjusted for time. Length of term is too short in House of Reps. and too long in the Senate. However, the Robert Byrds, Strom Thurmonds, Ted Kennedy's, aka career politicians have to know at some point:
THEY CAN"T RUN ANYMORE.....
The gerrymandering, and district manipulations, enables this,....ex. Pelosi, Rangel, Debbie Wasserman Schultz, etc,...ad nauseum.
Pelosi could throw kittens off the Bay Bridge, and STILL get re-elected. >:(
Damn - I might even vote for her if she did that ;)
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The overall accord also removed what Democrats had characterised as the biggest stumbling block - a Republican-crafted measure stripping federal funding from the Planned Parenthood clinics that provide abortions.
That was the biggest stumbling block? REALLY?!? The Dems were holding the budget process hostage over not being able to kill babies with taxpayer dollars?!? WHAT A BUNCH OF #@$)(#$ing )(*$)@(#$@hole, #(#@$#@$-sucking moth()*#@$#ing WHORES!!!
Don't get me wrong......even though I firmly believe abortion to be an abomination, I also believe it's an issue between a woman and her creator. In short, it's not my business. Just don't expect me to f....k PAY FOR IT, YOU A$$HOLES!!!!!
Deep breaths, Thomas, deep breaths........
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That was the biggest stumbling block? REALLY?!? The Dems were holding the budget process hostage over not being able to kill babies with taxpayer dollars?!? WHAT A BUNCH OF #@$)(#$ing )(*$)@(#$@hole, #(#@$#@$-sucking moth()*#@$#ing WHORES!!!
Don't get me wrong......even though I firmly believe abortion to be an abomination, I also believe it's an issue between a woman and her creator. In short, it's not my business. Just don't expect me to f....k PAY FOR IT, YOU A$$HOLES!!!!!
Deep breaths, Thomas, deep breaths........
No it wasn't even about not funding abortions. It was not funding them at one specific organization!
Now you can rant, because it is even more stupid than you thought.
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hasn't this also happened before back in 95 / 96
who was at the helm of the titanic then ???
so how is the rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic going
Joe Hazelwood. (who was qualified to be a lifetime Senator from Mass.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exxon_Valdez_oil_spill
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Joe Hazelwood. (who was qualified to be a lifetime Senator from Mass.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exxon_Valdez_oil_spill
FOOL, It was Dennis Hopper, didn't you watch " Water World" ?
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FOOL, It was Dennis Hopper, didn't you watch " Water World" ?
He was the second skipper....Joe was his idol. ;)
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Darn, You DID watch "Water World". We are about the only ones ;D
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Darn, You DID watch "Water World". We are about the only ones ;D
Most won't admit that Tom......though we did get to see Jeanne Tripplehorns butt!
;D
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I'm with you guys. I have learned not to admit it too often, and saying it here will get me in trouble, but I find Kevin Costner to be a great story teller - Long winded, but great. It doesn't matter what part he has in a project, he brings out the story.
Oh yea, and her bare butt too ;)
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To answer Phils question on the helmsman in 1995 during the last Gov shutdown, it was the only President to be impeached in US History.
Slick Willy Clinton was the guy and believe it or not, he got a huge bump in favorable ratings out of it which, I'm sure the yo'Bama admin was trying for as well.
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I'm with you guys. I have learned not to admit it too often, and saying it here will get me in trouble, but I find Kevin Costner to be a great story teller - Long winded, but great. It doesn't matter what part he has in a project, he brings out the story.
Oh yea, and her bare butt too ;)
Hell, I might even tolerate a Tom Cruise movie to see Jeanne Tripplehorns butt!
Well, maybe not.
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To answer Phils question on the helmsman in 1995 during the last Gov shutdown, it was the only President to be impeached in US History.
Slick Willy Clinton was the guy and believe it or not, he got a huge bump in favorable ratings out of it which, I'm sure the yo'Bama admin was trying for as well.
That is because it wasn't about the reasoning behind it or how it was all resolved and worked out. It was all about how the spin doctors painted the two sides and who they viewed as the pawns (poor underprivileged Americans) in the game.
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That is because it wasn't about the reasoning behind it or how it was all resolved and worked out. It was all about how the spin doctors painted the two sides and who they viewed as the pawns (poor underprivileged Americans) in the game.
Bingo!
Same thing is happening today on the morning news shows, spin baby, spin!
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Hell, I might even tolerate a Tom Cruise movie to see Jeanne Tripplehorns butt!
Well, maybe not.
She isn't in "Valkery" which I have heard is VERY good, even she could not have saved "Eyes wide shut".
My ex wife fell asleep watching it, 2 nights in a row ;D
I was puttering in the garage and came in to find her snoring. ;D
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I'm going to say something that could be considered blasphemous but the part that really bothers me about the whole deal is that the Dems are blaming the Tea Partiers and the Tea Party is using the same rhetoric that the Dems used to pass Obummercare. Boehner is trying to get the sides to COMPROMISE and get government running and the Tea Party freshman are running on and on about "The election was a mandate to..." The exact words Pelosi used for teh Health Care bill.
I am not a Gov't civilian but my entire paycheck and household livelyhood is directly tied to the Federal budget thank you very much. I happen to like my job and if the budget isn't passed I come into work, MIGHT get paid, but can't get anything acomplished since part of my job is to directly support the DoN and I can't sign documents since I'm a contractor. That means that the documents sit until the Guvvy returns delaying the project X amount of time, costing $Y. Since that didn't happen we contiue on. The last time we shut down I was on active duty and we cut short training. The contractors that we were supposed to do the training with were not allowed to come to work. They didn't get back pay like I did. This weekend I was told that if the gov't shut down I was to report to my Reserve job but only stay until noon on Sat. If I stayed longer I would get the point to retirement but I would not get paid, unlike Active Sailor that would have gotten back pay.
Just remember most of the government workers are just trying to get a job done, it's the politicians that suck and make it difficult on the rest of us. All those nice tour guides at the Smithsonian or the evil TSA screeners are just doing a job. They have just as much say in the whole thing as the rest of us.
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Thanks for the reminder, jnevis, that gummint workers are (sometimes) people too. I have a close friend who works for the Dept of Ag here in ND. If the gummint shuts down, the animals under their care cannot be cared for, and the experiments they have running (he works with bees on the hive collapse problem) will all fail, resulting in the loss of more money already invested, as well as start up costs to begin again if/when the funding comes back. I agree with him that if anything there has to be a controlled transfer or shut down.
He also told me that if a gummint worker clocks in through the security system during a shutdown, say to go feed the starving animals, he is actually violating a Federal law in doing so and will be terminated for that act.
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He also told me that if a gummint worker clocks in through the security system during a shutdown, say to go feed the starving animals, he is actually violating a Federal law in doing so and will be terminated for that act.
Another sterling example of fed law that makes perfect sense. ::)
I bet they have one too that makes it a felony to let an animal under your control starve.
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Another sterling example of fed law that makes perfect sense. ::)
I bet they have one too that makes it a felony to let an animal under your control starve.
That's covered under "Animal abuse", but I think those are State laws.
I'm sorry JNevis, but while it would stink for you and your family that type of self serving thinking by the voters is why the country is so fouled up.
Your reasoning is exactly the same as the 2nd, or 3rd Gen welfare recipient who votes Dem for more freebies.
When you run out of money in your home budget you have to give things up and do without new toys, why should politicians and Gov, be any different ? Only a fool would think basic economics works different if you add a dozen zero's.
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Tom, while I have back-up plans and have a couple months savings I'm lucky. When we shut down the last time I was single so I didn't have any real bills. Now I would have a chance. The military families are the ones being focussed on but there are a lot of other GS-nothings out there that even with some savings can't last forever without a paycheck, can you? They don't make the decisions, or the rules. At Congress it's the big toys and programs sure, but the poor schmuck in an office somewhere just wants to keep thier job and get a paycheck. Blaming the government for everything is too broad a brush. Its Congress, apppointees with no practical experience, and the President, don't forget that. Most senior leaders in the departments I've met are really smart, hardworking people that want to see thier people succeed and hate wasting people's money. Where the problem is comes from the appointees that may not even know how to spell Intelligence Community, Military, or Criminal Investigation.