The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Handguns => Topic started by: gunman42782 on April 14, 2011, 09:16:33 AM
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Jeff Quinn has an article on the 10mm at gunblast.com. I have been intrigued with this caliber, but have never owned one, or even shot one for that matter. Not too many guns made anymore in this caliber. We sell the EAA in 10mm for $398. Glock is out of the question for me, as I hate them. I need another caliber to reload for like I need a hole in the head, but I keep thinking I need one! :mrgreen: I view it as the .41 Magnum of auto pistols. Like the .41, not too many guns made anymore in the caliber, and it has somewhat of a "cult" following. Well, I love my .41 Mag, therefore I would have to love the 10mm, right???? Any of you guys have one?
http://www.gunblast.com/10mm.htm
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I've owned a few over the years and still have my Delta Elite. I used to hog hunt with a 6.5" 10mm barrel in my Glock 21 and it hit like a ton of bricks. I got rid of most of my 10's a few years ago since I don't reload and ammo was getting harder to find and the factory loads were being toned down. Now more companies are making factory ammo again and putting out some hotter loads. I've actually been toying with the idea of picking up a 10mm Witness. I like the platform and own a Witness 9 and compact 45 already. The one thing on 10mm is I'd stay to a full sized pistol with at least a 4.5" barrel. I wouldn't want a 10mm conversion for my 45 Witness compact. One the recoil can be pretty stout, nothing uncontrollable but you can tell the difference between a 45 and a 10. I think the round just needs the barrel length to generate the power more than some other pistol rounds from my past experience.
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I have a Glock 20 and I love it. The round has power and I consider the recoil average at most of course I think the same of a 45 hard recoil for me doesn't start till 50 AE. On aside note don't know how validate but on one of the shooting shows on outdoor channel, not one of MB's shows, during a interview with Jeff Cooper he stated that the 10mm at 50 yrds has the same energy as a 4' barreled 357 mag does at the muzzle.
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The delta elite has been on my wish list for a long time. They still make one model.
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EDC GLOCK 29 and also own a 20
Love them both to pieces.
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Jeff Quinn has an article on the 10mm at gunblast.com. I have been intrigued with this caliber, but have never owned one, or even shot one for that matter. [b ] note #1 Not too many guns made anymore in this caliber. We sell the EAA in 10mm for $398. Glock is out of the question for me, as I hate them.[/b] I need another caliber to reload for like I need a hole in the head, but I keep thinking I need one! :mrgreen: note #2 I view it as the .41 Magnum of auto pistols. Like the .41, not too many guns made anymore in the caliber, and it has somewhat of a "cult" following. Well, I love my .41 Mag, therefore I would have to love the 10mm, right???? Any of you guys have one?
http://www.gunblast.com/10mm.htm
#1 Glock G-20 and a compact (forget the number )
Colt Delta Elite
Bren Ten (Efforts have been under way for years to restart production, I do not know the current status )
EAA Witness 10
S&W makes a Revolver and I think a semi auto for 10MM but again I forget the model numbers
Olympic Arms produces an AR upper for 10 MM
HK produced a version of the MP-5 in 10 MM
#2 Yes, a round powerful enough for hand gun hunting that never took off the way it should have, but will never die due to it's faithful cult following.
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I own and love my Glock 20, not at 1st, but now as I have started building my own loads, it gets better and better, I also owned a S&W 610, shot like a laser from day 1, only problem, so does my model 57 revolver .41 mag, to me, the enchantment with the 10mm, is 15 rounds or more, the old saying, one gun, or one handgun, the Glock 20 is hard to beat, accurate enough to headshoot small game, flat enough trajectory to keep someones head down at 100 yards easy, 2 guns, then the 20 may not be my choice at all. I really like the idea of a 10mm upper for my AR. I really think the 10 shines with handloads.
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It is kind of the .357 of auto loaders. It really is the perfect cartrige in that it is good for both SD and hunting. Sadly, it didn't catch on like it should have. I almost bought a G20 rather than a G17 as my first "real" pistol. Looking back, I'm glad I didn't, but that's only due to ammo cost and availability. Personally, if you can afford to feed it or reload, I'd buy one. Sadly I can't do either, but honestly its one of those calibers that I can't think of a single bad thing to say about except for the price of ammo.
FQ13
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A guy I work with was running down the 10mm, said the ammo was difficult to find, (in local shops yes, in major retailers or on line no ) hard to find brass, (Cabela's, Midway, even Sportsmans guide ) to expensive, (about the same as .45 ACP maybe 10% higher ) and bound to die out due to lack of interest.
I gave him my most innocent look and asked "Oh, like 38 Super and 41 Mag did ?" ;D
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Had a DE in 10 and didn't like it at all so I sold it. I'm not recoil shy because I shoot .45 @ 185 pf no problem in a Colt LW officers as well as other 1911's.
Richard
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Jeff Quinn has an article on the 10mm at gunblast.com. I have been intrigued with this caliber, but have never owned one, or even shot one for that matter. Not too many guns made anymore in this caliber. We sell the EAA in 10mm for $398. Glock is out of the question for me, as I hate them. I need another caliber to reload for like I need a hole in the head, but I keep thinking I need one! :mrgreen: I view it as the .41 Magnum of auto pistols. Like the .41, not too many guns made anymore in the caliber, and it has somewhat of a "cult" following. Well, I love my .41 Mag, therefore I would have to love the 10mm, right???? Any of you guys have one?
http://www.gunblast.com/10mm.htm
I do not have personal experience with the EAA Witness in 10mm. I have read a lot about them because I was thinking about getting one as well due to the price. I haven't yet done it because it seems to have issues in this caliber. The problems include cracked frames at the ejection port/above the trigger guard around the mag well and rail issues. However, it still is an interesting pistol because you can also buy different slides with new calibers.
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I believe there is a "re-issue" of the Bren Ten, aka, the Sonny Crockett edition,....it's here in the archives pretty recently as to which manufacturer is picking it up.
Fantastic caliber,.....I still wonder why the .40 got the glory,....(and I own several .40's),....I had a 1995 S&W Model 411,
Trijicon Sights Wolff Spings,,...great action,...very accurate,... however,.would not shoot without a mag,...but it was a Clinton AWB gen. :-\ But was still a great pistol. The 2nd and 3rd gens,...led to the M+P...bypassing the Sigma fiasco.
Either way, the 10mm is what the .40 and .357 Sig,....compromised over... I do have an EAA Witness Compact in .40 with ported barrel and slide, and except for the two story tall rear sight, it's a great pistol.
The 10mm is a great round. Too bad it didn't take off in the mainstream firearms market. Although, a loyal cult following is a plus.
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Its not just the Clinton guns with mag safeties. My old Hi-Power has one too. I don't know why Browning thought they were a good idea back in the day. I can only guess that either A) if you're a cop wrestling for a gun it lets you safe it before its taken or B) It wil theoretically (stressing the theory part) prevent any sort of "oops I thought it was empty" scenarios. Either way, I don't want one on an SD pistol any more than I want an external safety (which is why I carry a Glock rather than the Browning).
FQ13
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A Glock 20 (or 29, I swapped back and forth but think I have settled on a 20) has been on my short list for a while now. I'm wanting something stronger than my 9mm to carry when I'm in the field. I originally was wanting a larger caliber revolver but got to thinking a 10mm would do the job just as well. Plus, it handles just like my other Glocks and uses my existing holsters. As soon as I can afford/talk myself into my next purchase, I will either be buying a 10mm or an AR. That is unless something else sneaks in first.
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10 mm is a great round. only real prob with it is if you load it to max, no hand gun can take the beating for long.
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I believe there is a "re-issue" of the Bren Ten, aka, the Sonny Crockett edition,....it's here in the archives pretty recently as to which manufacturer is picking it up.
Fantastic caliber,.....I still wonder why the .40 got the glory,....(and I own several .40's),....I had a 1995 S&W Model 411,
Trijicon Sights Wolff Spings,,...great action,...very accurate,... however,.would not shoot without a mag,...but it was a Clinton AWB gen. :-\ But was still a great pistol. The 2nd and 3rd gens,...led to the M+P...bypassing the Sigma fiasco.
Either way, the 10mm is what the .40 and .357 Sig,....compromised over... I do have an EAA Witness Compact in .40 with ported barrel and slide, and except for the two story tall rear sight, it's a great pistol.
The 10mm is a great round. Too bad it didn't take off in the mainstream firearms market. Although, a loyal cult following is a plus.
VLTOR is (supposedly) making the new Bren Ten. I'm on the contact list for updates which haven't happened for almost a year now. They have been working on the project publicly for almost 3 years now. It was announced at either the 2008 or 2009 Shot Show. They initially had casting issues that have supposedly been corrected and the excuse they've been running with for a while now is that due to their government contracts they simply had to backburner the project. I hope that's all it is and as bad as I want one I'd rather see our troops getting quality hardware first. Incidentally this reincarnation of the Bren Ten is designed to use The 10mm Witness magazines. Anyone who had an original Bren Ten knows the magazines were the weak link (and sold for over $250 ea. at the time I got rid of my Bren). I always regretted selling mine but I had it for around 7 years and made almost 3k in profit selling it. At the time I really needed the money so I can't complain but do want one of the new ones.
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STI also offers several of their 1911's in 10MM
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STI also offers several of their 1911's in 10MM
Most of the custom & semi-custom builders like Wilson, Knighthawk and others do as well.
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I would really like to have a Glock 20 or a 1911 frame 10mm. Right now it just does not seem feasible and tombogan is right about not getting ammo in the local gun shop. I do not reload so that would put me at a serious disadvantage.
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I would really like to have a Glock 20 or a 1911 frame 10mm. Right now it just does not seem feasible and tombogan is right about not getting ammo in the local gun shop. I do not reload so that would put me at a serious disadvantage.
the best thing is to buy a Glock 21 and pick up a 10mm barrel and a couple mags. This way you can shoot mostly 45 but switch to 10 for occasional fun. I've got a 6.5" ported 10mm barrel I put in my G21 for woods use.
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the best thing is to buy a Glock 21 and pick up a 10mm barrel and a couple mags. This way you can shoot mostly 45 but switch to 10 for occasional fun. I've got a 6.5" ported 10mm barrel I put in my G21 for woods use.
Hey Bafsu, I hate you. ;D
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I own a G20sf and a G29sf.I have lone wolf 10mm-40sw conversion barrels for both as well.This allows me to carry the 10mm and practice with 40sw after I'm out of 10mm ammo.Great option.best of both wolrds.simply swap out barrels.no modifications are necessary.use the same mags.functions great.
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Hey Bafsu, I hate you. ;D
You'll hate me even more when you learn I bought it "used" with 50rds down it and paid all of $75 to get it. ;D
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You'll hate me even more when you learn I bought it "used" with 50rds down it and paid all of $75 to get it. ;D
Now we ALL hate you! :P
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You'll hate me even more when you learn I bought it "used" with 50rds down it and paid all of $75 to get it. ;D
I think I'm going to cry. :'(
;D
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did I mention I have 6 delta elites... its not hoarding, I actually need them ;D
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VLTOR is (supposedly) making the new Bren Ten. I'm on the contact list for updates which haven't happened for almost a year now. They have been working on the project publicly for almost 3 years now. It was announced at either the 2008 or 2009 Shot Show. ..............
Latest is the distributor is no longer the distributor...which leaves a big hole in what is going on as in are they produced already, going to be produced, in a warehouse or what? Here is what VLTOR is saying;
"We would like to inform our customers, industry partners and friends that Sporting Products of West Palm Beach, FL is no longer handling the distribution or sales of the Vltor Bren Ten pistol – this news came to us recently from Sporting Products and we are unable to make any further comments regarding the dissolution.
We do want to let everyone know that we are bringing the full management and oversight of the Vltor Bren Ten back under our roof; effective immediately the design, manufacture, marketing and distribution of the Bren Ten will be solely and squarely on Vltor Weapon Systems and Abrams Airborne Manufacturing. We hope that this repositioning will allow us to not only oversee this project from start to finish, but that it will also put us in direct contact with the retailers and customers. In the next few weeks, we will reestablish our presence on the Internet and open the forum to provide updated and candid information about the Bren Ten pistol.
We do want to say that beyond our initial discussions to use Sporting Products as the sole distributor of the Bren Ten, we have not committed to any pre-orders or sales agreements, nor have we received any down payment for any of the Bren Ten pistols. If you believe that you have a purchase agreement of any type for the Bren Ten, you should contact Sporting Products directly with your concerns.
Again, we hope to make the best of this event and get the Vltor Bren Ten to the shooting market as soon as possible."
I guess it wouldn't be a Bren if it did not have problems coming onto the market........
I have a Bren I won't shoot and a Kimber in 10MM that I do shoot. Ammo may not be available at Wal Mart but it is not hard to find at all in the Tulsa area. Full power ammo is easily available from Doubletap from their website directly or outlets like Midway USA, etc.
Not only did the Bren have a problem with mags, it had a problem with porosity in the castings as my original Bren shows an indication of porosity. The Kimber has no such problem but I did replace the 18 lb spring with a 24 lb spring to extend the 1911's life beyond 10,000 rounds. That was another problem with the 10MM...it broke guns and the new VLTOR Bren should not have these problems....if it ever comes to the market.
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I was going to ask bafsu92 how much but then he already answered. Wow, you made out like a bandit. I do have a G21SF so I may need to research the price since they both utilize the same lower on a Glock.
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I fired a 10mm for the first time last night. Right snappy round that is! It feels "snappy" as opposed to feeling like a hammer. A 357 comes straight back at you-feels like a hammer. This is more like just a very lively 40 or 45. Nice round, but kinda hard to find.
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You'll hate me even more when you learn I bought it "used" with 50rds down it and paid all of $75 to get it. ;D
After further consideration I have decided I will not cry, I will just hope you sprain both ankles and get the sh!ts at the same time ! ;D
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My first 1911 was a 10mm. I traded it off, one of the few guns I have ever parted with, because 10mm is a very difficult round to purchase in this region. It is a round that has not gained the popularity to get shops, mom & pop and big box alike, to stock. And since I dislike relying on mail order, I decided to go .45 acp.
In my opinion the 10mm is a better round than the .40S&W, but that is not how the popular market views it.
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I was going to ask bafsu92 how much but then he already answered. Wow, you made out like a bandit. I do have a G21SF so I may need to research the price since they both utilize the same lower on a Glock.
I haven't seen the 6.5" listed anywhere in a while but Lone Wolf has 5.5" ported 10mm for $125. here you go: http://www.lonewolfdist.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=944&CAT=236 (http://www.lonewolfdist.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=944&CAT=236)
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I was told that the 10mm was developed as the first incarnation of the .40. The FBI didn't like the muzzle flash and recoil so they then developed the .40. Good story anyway.
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I was told that the 10mm was developed as the first incarnation of the .40. The FBI didn't like the muzzle flash and recoil so they then developed the .40. Good story anyway.
I can't say I have heard it from anyone I would quote in a research paper, but I have heard that the move from .38 caliber revolvers of all power factors to the 10mm was too much of a recoil jump for law enforcement. This was the reason the 10mm was down graded to the .40 S&W.
I don't know how factual it is, but the history of the .38 within law enforcement and the heavy reliance on .40 S&W by law enforcement makes me say, as Arsenio Hall would say, go Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm ::)
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I was told that the 10mm was developed as the first incarnation of the .40. The FBI didn't like the muzzle flash and recoil so they then developed the .40. Good story anyway.
Story I got was that after the FBI was beat up in Miami by two guys who where hit multiple times with 9mm rounds but kept fighting and killed a few agents, the FBI did a study that resulted in most of the ballistic requirements you see quoted.
At least 10 inches of penetration in ballistic gelatin, no more that 12 inches and certain expansion characteristics.
Both of these were to be measured after penetrating several different medium including layers of denim and dry wall.
It was found that all this could be met by the 10mm round and a downloaded version at that.
S&W and another company, which I can't recall, realized that the same performance could be duplicated in a smaller .40 cartridge that would use the same size frame as a 9mm pistol.
Thus was born the .40 S&W. So the story I read goes....
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The truth of the Miami shoot out was that most of the feds shot like crap against guys wearing body armor and then ran out of ammo the fatal shots to both BG's were delivered by the same agent, but since the FBI is never wrong they blamed their crap performance on gear instead of poor prep (one agent did not even have his eye glasses with him , and another dropped his weapon trying to get out of the car ). The 10 MM was developed to meet the requirements dreamed up to cover piss poor performance but then it was discovered that women agents and smaller "men" could not handle the recoil, so all the fancy research got sh!tcanned and the caliber got down loaded.
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You know the .40 is a short 10mm Some have said the 10mm is the be all and end all of combat pistol cartridges. I had a chance to buy one , but I backed out . I f you dont hand load it its expensive. Ballistics are impressive.
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I've never had a chance to shoot one, what I love about it is that it is the semi auto version of the .357 Mag.
A cartridge that, after more than 100 years, gives to the semi auto the reliable, practical, hunting utility the revolver has enjoyed for decades.
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I've never had a chance to shoot one, what I love about it is that it is the semi auto version of the .357 Mag.
A cartridge that, after more than 100 years, gives to the semi auto the reliable, practical, hunting utility the revolver has enjoyed for decades.
Exactly correct. I believe it's the Cor-Bon 130 or 135gr 10mm that is almost exactly ballistically equivalent to the 125gr .357mag that is considered one of if not the the best man stopping rounds. Most people use the heavier 10mm loads 155-185gr, but it's the lighter load that really shines. Really though up until the last few years the 158gr .357 was the most popular load in that caliber as well.
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The only 10mm I've shot was a Colt Delta Elite 1911. Great shooting cartridge and gun. Very accurate and powerful round.
I've always thought of the 10mm as being to the semi-auto world what the .41 magnum is to the revolver world.
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I wish VLTOR would get their act together and get the new Bren Ten out to distributors and gun shops.
Might be a good side subject for a podcast, eh?
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I'd rather see a gun made with 1911 eurgos that could actually handle all the power the 10MM has to offer.
you know something long slide, great sites, you know something you could take hunting.
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I forget who, but I think it's Lone Wolf is offering a 7 inch upper with small holo sight for hunting WITH A GLOCK 20.
Suarez had an article about it a couple months ago.
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I'd rather see a gun made with 1911 eurgos that could actually handle all the power the 10MM has to offer.
you know something long slide, great sites, you know something you could take hunting.
I know the company had some issues with some of their alloys and guns that would gall, but 10 or so years ago I was able to borrow an AMT Javelina (A 1911 long-slide, stainless in 10mm) and run a few boxes through it. It was a very sturdy and fine shooting gun. I offered to buy it but the guy didn't want to sell.
http://gun-specifications.findthebest.com/detail/145/AMT-Javelina
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You are right Tom about Lone Wolf making that product. I have heard good reviews in reference to it but the original post person does not like Glocks. Too bad. ;D
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I was told that the 10mm was developed as the first incarnation of the .40. The FBI didn't like the muzzle flash and recoil so they then developed the .40. Good story anyway.
Col. Jeff Cooper is the father of the 10MM and the Bren 10 as a notch between the weight and size of the 45 and the speed of the diminutive 9MM. The Bren 10 has roots in the CZ 75B which Cooper greatly admired. As I recall, several years later the .40 S&W came along out of the FBI so that it's lower recoil could be handled by women and girley men.
Shot my D&D Bren 10 last week, the ergo on it is better than the 1911 Kimber I own in 10MM. Less felt recoil and quicker back on target with the Bren. I sure wish I could get one of those new VLTOR models so I could put the D&D in a display case.
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here is some info:
http://www.glockfaq.com/content.aspx?ckey=glock_faq_cartridge_information
http://marina.fortunecity.com/harbour/347/10mm.html
http://www.texasguntalk.com/forums/handguns-sponsored-kangaroo-carry/23718-where-all-10mm-shooters-2.html
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i used to be a died in the wool 45 acp guy. I ran across the 10mm round buy accident several years back and started to do as much research as one can do on the Internet. the ballistics alone are over whelming and hey "uncle Ted endorses the 10mm...LOL". any way i haven't looked back as i feel this weapon offers the best all round cartridge for SD to hunting. 15 rounds in the mag and one in the pipe with that much power is hard to pass up. Yes the rounds are still pricey and to get the best out of the round you will want to think about reloading but some manufactures are starting to come on board (buffalo bore,swampfox and now the big boys are starting.. even if they are a little watered down).
Over the years i have added various conversions AA 22lr upper, 40 s&W cheaper practice still decent SD and recently 9 mm conversion barrel. Yes LWD produces a 9 mm conversion barrel for it (even cheaper trigger time). I only needed a reduced recoil spring nothing else. It makes for the softest shooting 9's and i can still use the glock 20 mags with 18 x 9 mm rounds in it. so i have 4 different hand guns on one platform for any where for 250.00 (AA 22lr conversion) to 125 LWD barrels. There are a couple of other conversion barrels out there 357 sig and 9 x 25 dillion that can be had but i wanted to stay within cheap ammo realm.
I went with the glock as they have been producing the 10 mm platform almost from the start while other manufactures had various problems and some still do with the 10 mm. the glock frame helps to reduce the percieved felt recoil. i am still trying to retrain with the glock trigger and grip (not my favorite..at all) but i feel with practice i will find my sweet spot.
well thats my story and i am sticking to it.
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"15 +1" of 10mm. Does beg the question. Why?
As a military sidearm, SURE! SWEET choice IMO! But anything else? Nothing comes to mind where there wouldn't be 10 better choices...
Not criticizing, just seriously curious. :-\
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piece of mind. if i were to use as a carry piece then the idea of only having to carry two mags with 30 rounds does have its advantages. Now when i can save my pennies a 29 will be in the safe for ccw with ten round mag and 15 round back up mag.
If you look at all the written and video confrontations, no matter how well the trained, people tend to become less accurate. i want any advantage on my side. I am not advocating more rounds in the place of training or practice but i would rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it.
JMHO
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:-\ Sounds valid to me. I went looking on 10mm's and found this. Not bad.
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=40406 (http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=40406)
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great article. thanks i haven't seen that one yet. all i can say is try it you'll like it. glock talk - ten ring and 10 mm reloading forum has tons of great info. Really a fun gun.