The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: Rastus on April 26, 2011, 06:10:27 AM
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OK. I get that this is not an insidious government plot that uses the military to control us. What I am wondering is if the problems with these individual soldiers are a few errant cases that happened at the same time, a few general "somebody needed their behind whipped" cases or if it is something that is insidious like gang infiltration of the military. Or is it something else?
http://www2.wrbl.com/news/2011/apr/22/military-patrols-start-friday-night-ar-1752061/ (http://www2.wrbl.com/news/2011/apr/22/military-patrols-start-friday-night-ar-1752061/)
COLUMBUS, Ga. -- Starting at 10 o'clock Friday, two senior non-commissioned officers from Fort Benning will be walking the streets of Downtown Columbus, also known as, "Uptown." The soldiers will be wearing arm bands that read, "Courtesy Patrol."
Fort Benning's Commanding General Robert Brown, and Columbus Mayor Teresa Tomlinson made the announcement earlier this week.
The need to increase security in Uptown Columbus comes after two weekend incidents in early April.
In the first incident, police say five soldiers beat another man. The beating was witnessed near First Ave. and 10th street- sending the victim - a former solider - to the hospital with head injuries.
The other, a shooting that left four injured - one fatally - at Marios restaurant on Broadway. A man is charged in connection with the assault.
Now, Columbus Police will have the company of two uniformed Fort Benning soldiers on Thursday, Friday and Saturday nights.
Mayor Tomlinson says the soldiers will not be able to make any arrests, but will be able to command order of all military personnel and if need be, alert military police.
You cant arrest someone for being intoxicated, but a senior officer can order you back to base or have military police come get you and bring you back to base, says Tomlinson.
Charlotte Burton says the extra patrols might not be enough.
I know this is just a start but I think they will have to increase security that's being offered
a lot of people come down here at night, says Burton.
For Specialist Ryan Jesse - stationed at Fort Benning - he says soldiers will think twice after seeing another in uniform.
It keeps things in check. It avoids thing getting out of hand which happens a lot with soldiers unfortunately, says SPC Jesse.
The patrols will last about five hours, ending at 3am (EST) shortly after the bars close.
This is not the first time the City of Columbus has enlisted the help of military courtesy patrols, but it has been years since the practice was used.
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During WWII, didn't MPs and SPs routinely patrol a number of cities and towns while troops were on leave?
In this case, maybe warranted, or maybe the mayor is looking for some free police help.
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During WWII, didn't MPs and SPs routinely patrol a number of cities and towns while troops were on leave?
In this case, maybe warranted, or maybe the mayor is looking for some free police help.
Yes they did. My father in law drove the officer of the detail when he got back from the South Pacific. They went to all the bars and clubs that were off limits.
A Gunnery Sgt told my father in law to always keep a magazine in his 45. The knuckle heads would look to see if the mag well was empty and then start trouble. The officer was not too happy with the idea until they made the first stop. They were checked out and left alone.
The LT said putting an empty magazine worked qute well.
My father in law said Sir what dumb ass puts and empty magazine in a pistol , his was locked and loaded.
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We still do that overseas, it's called Shore Patrol. I stood it in Hong Kong, Singapore, Bahrain, UAE, and Australia on deployment and Japan while stationed there. San Diego has a permanent SP unit stationed with CBP at the primary border crossings. Hawaii had one whenever battle groups pulled in for RimPac (one HELL of a party BTW)
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Our town has a Coast Guard base. When I was a kid no one would rent to Coast Guard and there was always fights and stuff-townies against guard members. It all stopped when a base commander changed the rules back in the early 70's. Now there is NO DRUNKEN FUN OR TROUBLE you could possibly have that would be worth the HELL you will live in when the Guard gets ahold of you. The trouble stopped when the punishment became substantial enough.
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I remember a story I read in The Stars and Stripes while I was on active duty.
It was about the city council of a town where an Army base was located. They said the troops were causing lots of trouble and wanted the base commander to put the town off limits.
The commander told the council he would wait and ask the them if they still wanted the off limits ruling two weeks after the next payday.
He then directed the Admin Company to acquire all the next payroll in $2 bills, which were then given to the troops.
The commander told the council what he did and asked them to consult the local merchants about how much of their take was in $2 bills and then get back to him about the off limits posting.
The council decided the off limits posting wasn't such a good idea after all.
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I would say the answer to Rastus's question is "All the above".
I don't know about now but in the 70's it was unusual not to see MP's patrolling in Jacksonville NC
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I read somewhere that the military leadership KNOWS that at least 1% of the total force has an active gang affiliation. The Army alone has around 600,000 troops meaning nearly 6000 gang members. They range from "hanger-on" and "wanna-be's" to those heavily invloved in day-to-day operations. Some were told to join by the courts (something that doesn't happen that often anymore, the Services aren't approving legal waivers as much) while others joined on their own. Better training, better access to weapons. Some really just want to get away from the gang life but get drug back in after joining.
The other issue is the kids. we had a lot of problems in Japan with the teenage kids causing trouble. They quickly became a "mutual aid society" since they weren't Japanese and not old enough to have a lot of freedom. After a while mod-rule takes over and mutual aid becomes a bunch of thugs. Get a person transferring in that has gang ties in the States and the local thugs become a true gang. Since they're all in the same schools and live close together it becomes easy to organize.
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I wouldn't read a whole lot into this story. It is not uncommon for a military presence on the streets where off duty military personnel gather and recreate. If it were military check-points or road blocks, I'd be concerned. Sounds to me like the military trying to both protect those GI's who need protection, and report those who need reporting. Military personnel are government property, 24/7, on post, or off.
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It seems to me that this is about protecting the troops/the Army's reputation as much as anything. It lets the base command keep things "in house" as much as possible rather than having headlines about soldiers being arrested. Better a demotion than a conviction. It also saves the cops trouble. Personally I think its a reasonable thing as long as the MPs aren't policing civlians, but just their own.
FQ13
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First, for those unfamiliar with Columbus, GA (Ft Benning). Right across the Chattahoochee river from Columbus is Phenix City, Alabama. Back during WWII Phenix City was were.....uh....all the action was. (And yes, that's how they spell it, Phenix.)
So the story goes that the night before Patton's army was suppose to ship out so many of his troops were imprisoned over in Phenix City that it threatened his deployment. So they say, he drove a tank to the middle of the bridge, between Columbus and Phenix City and demanded the police release all his troops.
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Yeah, Phenix was supposed to be pretty wild and crazy back in the day; they even made a movie about it. However, I would have to say that Columbus is a little more now.
I have spent quite a bit of time there for various reasons and personally am not a big fan of Columbus. I don't see anything wrong with the military keeping watch over their own. There are a whole bunch of soldiers there and a lot of sketchy stuff for them to get into.