The Down Range Forum

Member Section => Reloading => Topic started by: alfsauve on April 28, 2011, 07:45:14 AM

Title: .45ACP Oddity
Post by: alfsauve on April 28, 2011, 07:45:14 AM
[sung in your best Sesame Street voice]

One of these things is not like the other.
One of these things doesn't belong.
Can you tell which one is not like the other?

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_udyXWMnOGhI/TblfIbaqimI/AAAAAAAAkOY/LKUueLKiV5Q/s512/primerpockets.jpg)


I knew they existed, I had just never seen one, before, much less had one in my brass stock.   Doesn't do good things to a large primer trying to stuff it in a small pocket.   For those who are numbers oriented, small primer pockets measure a shade over 0.17" while large pockets are a shade over 0.20"

The thought, I'm guessing is that small primers are cheaper and that the difference in small and large primers isn't that great.  Or at least isn't as great as say 100 years ago.  And that may work very well for low pressure small case rounds like the .45ACP.  And it would simplify my primer stocking if one size fit all, but I'd like to think that larger primers with larger flash holes are better for larger diameter ammo, like .45 and .44s

Just be careful out there.  Inspect, inspect, inspect.

Title: Re: .45ACP Oddity
Post by: wtr100 on April 28, 2011, 08:45:40 AM
I was given a BUCKET full of these for next to nothing and am happily reloading them - I use the Lyman Ram prime instead of my usual 310 tool for priming and so long as I make sure the case lines up nice it works good.  I use moderate charge of Red Dot / Promo and it goes bang
Title: Re: .45ACP Oddity
Post by: 1911 Junkie on April 28, 2011, 09:05:34 AM
It would be nice to know how the round was loaded.  Manufacturers loading "green" ammunition seem to be stuck using small primers for everything.  Something to do with the priming compound and pressures. IIRC.
Title: Re: .45ACP Oddity
Post by: tombogan03884 on April 28, 2011, 11:17:14 AM
Casings with the Small primer pockets are usually marked NT , like Junkie mentioned, they are Non Toxic.
Title: Re: .45ACP Oddity
Post by: MikeBjerum on April 28, 2011, 11:44:41 AM
I'm sure that if you inspect 1,000 you will pick up on the size, but the only difference I see is the dots before and after the name Federal.  Looks like an issue like accidentally running into WinClean.
Title: Re: .45ACP Oddity
Post by: ellis4538 on April 28, 2011, 12:17:18 PM
I recently read a post on another forum which mentioned SPP used in .45 cases that were not marked NT.  Can't remember if/what the explanation was.

Richard

PS:  .45 Glock is loaded standard w/SPP.  Some .45 revo shooters use that brass for matches w/moon clip revos.
Title: Re: .45ACP Oddity
Post by: CJS3 on May 01, 2011, 11:40:22 AM
I got in the habit of inspecting 45 range brass after cleaning, for just this reason. When I get enough to reload 50 at a time, I'll start. Right now there are just 4 or 5 per every couple of hundred I bring back from the range.
Title: Re: .45ACP Oddity
Post by: TAB on May 01, 2011, 11:55:04 AM
I'd scrap them or trade them... 45 acp brass is easy to find and cheap to buy.  I'd much rather not have to do another sorting step.  Don't even mention reseting up the press.
Title: Re: .45ACP Oddity
Post by: billt on May 05, 2011, 06:57:37 PM
http://www.downrange.tv/forum/index.php?topic=15211.0

I started a thread on this a few threads down on the same page. I bought a box of Federal Champion .45 ACP from Wal-Mart a couple of months back, and when I got home I found out they had small primer pockets. I'll most likely let the brass fly. It's not worth it to segregate it for 50 lousy rounds.  Bill T.
Title: Re: .45ACP Oddity
Post by: Pathfinder on May 05, 2011, 07:17:43 PM
At the range where I serve as an RSO we sell bags of fired brass. The .45ACP is $5 per hundred or so, and we make a point of saying the baggie may include some small primer - we don't sort for anything but caliber.
Title: Re: .45ACP Oddity
Post by: rtyguy on May 16, 2011, 09:53:21 AM
These odd small primers are part of a program to issue ammo with a specific shelf life. These primers are dead in about 5 years and they are trying to get it down to 3 years. Don't take my word for it go to PMC,Winchester and UMC and check it out. They specificlly state that their military ammo will not have this unusual primer in it. An ammo company wouldn't do this on their own( think of the liability when you are being robbed,raped or assaulted and your gun goes click) so the government must have offered legal cover and maybe even funding for the research. Vote with your cash. Thanks. Jeff
Title: Re: .45ACP Oddity
Post by: billt on May 16, 2011, 11:32:41 AM
These odd small primers are part of a program to issue ammo with a specific shelf life. These primers are dead in about 5 years and they are trying to get it down to 3 years. Don't take my word for it go to PMC,Winchester and UMC and check it out. They specificlly state that their military ammo will not have this unusual primer in it. An ammo company wouldn't do this on their own( think of the liability when you are being robbed,raped or assaulted and your gun goes click) so the government must have offered legal cover and maybe even funding for the research. Vote with your cash. Thanks. Jeff

That, without question, is the most insanely, stupid thing I have read on this forum since I've had the pleasure to be a member here. Thank God it came from a first timer!   Bill T.
Title: Re: .45ACP Oddity
Post by: GASPASSERDELUXE on May 16, 2011, 12:06:39 PM
These odd small primers are part of a program to issue ammo with a specific shelf life. These primers are dead in about 5 years and they are trying to get it down to 3 years. Don't take my word for it go to PMC,Winchester and UMC and check it out. They specificlly state that their military ammo will not have this unusual primer in it. An ammo company wouldn't do this on their own( think of the liability when you are being robbed,raped or assaulted and your gun goes click) so the government must have offered legal cover and maybe even funding for the research. Vote with your cash. Thanks. Jeff

BULLCHIPS, CHECKED ALL 3 SITES AND THERE ISN'T ANY INFORMATION REGARDING SHELF LIFE OF THERE PRIMERS OR AMMO. THE ONLY HINT IS ON "UMC" SITE WHICH MENTIONS THE LONGEST POSSIBLE SHELF LIFE. I EMAILED THEM FOR INFO ON SAME. NONE OF THEM STATE ANYTHING ABOUT DIFFERENT PRIMERS FOR MILITARY AND CIVILIAN AMMO.
Title: Re: .45ACP Oddity
Post by: 1911 Junkie on May 16, 2011, 12:22:33 PM
That, without question, is the most insanely, stupid thing I have read on this forum since I've had the pleasure to be a member here. Thank God it came from a first timer!   Bill T.

+1

I think someones tin foil hat slipped a little bit.  ::)

Title: Re: .45ACP Oddity
Post by: billt on May 16, 2011, 12:51:34 PM
I remember the whole "primer scare" of the 90's. That is when this whole swarm of nonsense took shape. Tom Gresham stated he had talked to both Federal and Winchester at the time, and they stated they did not have the technology to produce that type of primer if the government had paid for the research. How could they predict the exact time the primers would go dead? Reliably within what, a month, a week, a day, what?

 This is just as much Internet nonsense as we attacked ourselves on 9/11, or we faked the Moon landings. People today, especially young people, have vivid imaginations, or else they are as dumb as a box of rocks. With SAT scores dropping steadily, as well as the current drop out rate, I'm beginning to think it's the latter.   Bill T.
Title: Re: .45ACP Oddity
Post by: tombogan03884 on May 16, 2011, 01:33:13 PM
 Then of course some people are just plain stupid.
I'm still getting advice to boycott the Gold colored "presidential" dollar coins, because they don't say "In God we trust" on them. By now any body but an idiot knows that it scrolls along the edge, a very interesting peice of work I would be somewhat interested in seeing done.
And then there's "Blair/Holt" and that G-D Muslim Christmas stamp.
Title: Re: .45ACP Oddity
Post by: billt on May 16, 2011, 01:48:35 PM
Then of course some people are just plain stupid.

The sad part is their population is far greater than you think.   Bill T.
Title: Re: .45ACP Oddity
Post by: Ichiban on May 16, 2011, 02:45:17 PM
The sad part is their population is far greater than you think.   Bill T.

As proven in November 2008.
Title: Re: .45ACP Oddity
Post by: tombogan03884 on May 17, 2011, 01:08:19 AM
The sad part is their population is far greater than you think.   Bill T.

As proven in November 2008.

Only about 20% actually stupid the other 33% were welfare blacks and college liberals like FQ.
Title: Re: .45ACP Oddity
Post by: Ping on June 08, 2011, 11:06:24 AM
Great callout on the primers. Learn something new every day.  :)