The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Handguns => Topic started by: BAC on May 02, 2011, 09:22:41 PM
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OK, so many of you know the saga of my Springfield 1911. I'd like to replace it with another .45 handgun and need some advice. Another 1911 is completely off the table right now. Maybe at a later date I'll revisit the 1911 (I'm gun culture 2.0 and would like it to work out of the box - ask MB about that one), but not now. Another thing that's bothering me about the SA 1911 is that it wasn't made here.
Obviously S&W M&P comes to mind, but I'm not really thrilled with them right now, either. I called their customer service several weeks ago about the trigger on my wife's revolver and they said they'd smooth it out under warranty and would send a FEDEX label. Several weeks and several attempts to contact them later, I still don't have the label and they haven't gotten back to me. Not crazy about the lack of CS from them.
Which leads me to my advice request: What have you guys used that you can recommend to me that's
1. .45acp
2. Made in America
3. NOT a 1911
4. Reliable as Hell
Yes, FQ, I'm still getting a Glock as soon as I get a job.
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Yes, FQ, I'm still getting a Glock as soon as I get a job.
No need for the thread - You answered your own question.
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No need for the thread - You answered your own question.
The thread is for what will replace my 1911. The Glock will be in addition to it. Are Glocks being made in the US now?
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No need for the thread - You answered your own question.
+10. They are also doing a lot more of the assembly work at their Georgia plant. Its kind of like buying a Toyota. Its a Japanese car, but largely built in Indiana. Not quite the same, but you are supporting American jobs.
And as far as your criteria?
1. .45acp
2. Made in America
3. NOT a 1911
4. Reliable as Hell
Is there any other option at a comparable price and quality point? ;D
FQ13
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What do you think of the Smith and Wesson M&P .45? I would buy one if I didn't already own 4 other .45 (3 1911's and a Taurus 24/7). I also like my FN P-40 (which can be had in .45), but it would be like buying a Glock.
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If I were not buying another 1911 (it happens) I would buy the S&W M&P (customer service aside). I already have one in 9 and like it. It is everything the glock should have been.
Otherwise your criteria kinda limits you to looking at Ruger.
You should swing by sometime and check some things out since you have all kinds of free time. ;)
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If I were not buying another 1911 (it happens) I would buy the S&W M&P (customer service aside). I already have one in 9 and like it. It is everything the glock should have been.
Otherwise your criteria kinda limits you to looking at Ruger.
You should swing by sometime and check some things out since you have all kinds of free time. ;)
Surprisingly I have less free time than you might think. I've been doing some research, coupled with some quality fondling time at the NRA show, and have come to the conclusion that the FNP45 is in the running. It's made in South Carolina (not assembled, made), has some good reviews, and having 15+1 rounds of .45 gives me a warm fuzzy. ;D Thoughts?
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If you want striker go M&P. For around $00 you can get a really good trigger job on M&P. You can get them with a safety...at least you used to and probably still can.
If you want an exposed hammer and double/single action go FNX.
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1. .45acp
2. Made in America
3. NOT a 1911
4. Reliable as Hell
Ruger P90 (if you can find one) or P345.
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If you're thinking Glock, you might as well look at the Sigs. Sig Sauer is now 100% a US company, although I don't have details on where each and every little fiddly bit is made.
I picked up a gently used Sig P220 a few years back for $550, and it is my numero uno handgun.
Also look at Para, pricier than the Sigs but excellent handguns. I picked up a gently used Para TAC-S 1911 Commander in OD with the LDA trigger - all in all a fine handgun. It ran $850.
They are absolutely GunGen 1.0, with a max of 8 rounds. But something to consider.
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If you're thinking Glock, you might as well look at the Sigs. Sig Sauer is now 100% a US company, although I don't have details on where each and every little fiddly bit is made.
I picked up a gently used Sig P220 a few years back for $550, and it is my numero uno handgun.
+1. My experience with Sigs is that they are well made, well fitted, and utterly reliable.
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Sig is certainly a great manufacturer - I've told this story a thousand times here (and else where) so the short version.
I owned 4 Sig pistols, 9mm, .45, .357Sig, .40
I found I shot GLOCK better, accuracy and fit just worked better for my paws.
I now own 5 GLOCK 9mm, .45, 10mm
Moral - (as we all know) Try before you buy, and keep and open mind - go with what WORKS for you.
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I have the MP45. Love it. Did not like the feel of the glock.
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Surprisingly I have less free time than you might think. I've been doing some research, coupled with some quality fondling time at the NRA show, and have come to the conclusion that the FNP45 is in the running. It's made in South Carolina (not assembled, made), has some good reviews, and having 15+1 rounds of .45 gives me a warm fuzzy. ;D Thoughts?
I can't speak to the FNP-45, but I am really fond of my FNP-9 and FNX-40. Come to think of it, they are currently the only non-1911 automatics that I own. Very good ergonomics, adjustable back-strap, haven't had a single hiccup out of either, more accurate than I am, plus they came with three magazines. Plus they have a normal grip angle, not that goofy Glock grip angle that I can't seem to adjust to.
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I would also recomend smiths 3rd gen autos. I'm sure you could get a LEO trade in for cheap and they are tanks.
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I would not even hesitate to get an M&P if it wasn't for the complete lack of customer service I've experienced from them over the last few weeks. Pisses me off.
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BAC, did you complain to someone with it at the convention? Face to face is good!
Richard
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Striker -- M&P45
DA/Cocked & Locked -- FNP45
DA-SA -- SIG P220
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My vote would match KPR's... but just because I like fireworks...
High Point???
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If you don't want 1911, you really need to check out the SIG 220 or a Glock 21. Both are 100%.
Find out which one fits your hand best.
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Sig is certainly a great manufacturer - I've told this story a thousand times here (and else where) so the short version.
I owned 4 Sig pistols, 9mm, .45, .357Sig, .40
I found I shot GLOCK better, accuracy and fit just worked better for my paws.
I now own 5 GLOCK 9mm, .45, 10mm
Moral - (as we all know) Try before you buy, and keep and open mind - go with what WORKS for you.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
What he say! Right on the money, can't go wrong with that advice.
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I understand the made in America idea and do buy American when I can.
Owned the Sig in .45 ACP. It was the quickest transfer of ownership of any firearm that I own. I may have had it for 2 or 3 months. Very inaccurate. Had traded a Glock 17 for the Sig. Traded the Sig for a new Glock 22.
Decided on Glock 21's and Glock 30's a few years ago. I love the .45 ACP and mine perform flawlessly. If I could not have a Glock then I would definitely go for the Smith and Wesson M&P. I know you are pissed with their customer service, but their M&P Pistols are top notch.
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Speaking of keeping an open mind.
How about a S&W 625 revolver?
Let's see:
CHECK 1. .45acp
CHECK 2. Made in America
Check 3. NOT a 1911
Check 4. Reliable as Hell
Alf <-- in his big bore classic revolver stage
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Speaking of keeping an open mind.
How about a S&W 625 revolver?
Let's see:
CHECK 1. .45acp
CHECK 2. Made in America
Check 3. NOT a 1911
Check 4. Reliable as Hell
Alf <-- in his big bore classic revolver stage
Good thought!
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Speaking of keeping an open mind.
How about a S&W 625 revolver?
Let's see:
CHECK 1. .45acp
CHECK 2. Made in America
Check 3. NOT a 1911
Check 4. Reliable as Hell
Alf <-- in his big bore classic revolver stage
Didn't Freud mention that one? ;D
FQ13
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Owned the Sig in .45 ACP. It was the quickest transfer of ownership of any firearm that I own. I may have had it for 2 or 3 months. Very inaccurate.
You got a lemon!
I would have sent it to the factory with a target showing the spread. I bet something wasn't fitted properly and they would have fixed it.
Honestly, that is the first time I have ever heard that about a Sig. Any of them.
Most all will shoot right along side any 45 and not give up anything.
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I saw it mentioned early in the thread but you should take a serious look at the Ruger 345 if you want to meet all your criteria and do it on a budget. I bought one about a year ago at my local shop NIB for around $350. They still sell them for around that and you can find them on gunbroker for even less: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=227236327 (http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=227236327). I basically bough it as a tackle box/truck gun. I wanted something small enough that I could grab and slip in my waistband if needed and wanted stainless since it would see a mix of fresh and salt water splashes.
I put a couple hundred rounds through it when I bought it and it performed flawlessly. The (DA) trigger isn't the greatest but the SA is decent and since it's not one of my regular carry guns I don't keep a round chambered in this normally anyway. It's not going to win any pretty gun contests but it's not a pig either. The ergos are decent and it feels ok in my XL hands and my wife's average-small hands as well. I'm seriously thinking of buying another since I can't think of a better .45 for under $350. The fact that it's a Ruger, so 100% American with a great warranty and company that honors their warranties is a huge plus.
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I have an FNP 45 the USG model that has been a great pistol,it's accurate,reliable and FNP has fantastic costumer service.It has ate everything i've fed it.
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I got ahold of S&W customer service today. They've been having problems with their system. They claim to be sending out a return authorization (3rd time's a charm, right?). This is their last chance...the M&P 45 is still in the running.
Spent way more than a pistol would cost on a new suit yesterday. I'd better get a Damn job soon.
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Well, S&W is officially off the list. Called them about my 351 today, as I'd not heard anything in over 3 weeks. Was told that it was moved from warranty repairs to charged repairs and they haven't had a chance to work up an estimate yet. I told him I was informed that since it was a brand new revolver and the trigger really sucks it would be worked on under warranty. He said they don't do any work on rimfire triggers. I told him to send it back and maybe they should let the other CSRs know that they don't fix rimfire triggers, no matter how horrible they are.
After hanging up it hit me that if they don't work on rimfire triggers, what was the estimate for? Anyway, I'm going to sell it and get a revolver from another company for my wife. We tried Taurus .22mag revolvers at the NRA show, and their triggers are quite a bit better than S&W's. Before anyone mentions quality control issues with Taurus...it can't be any worse than what I've experienced from Springfield and S&W recently. Plus, their CS is said to be excellent.
Still no job, no opportunities on the horizon, and no one has called me to interview in over a month. But the economy's getting better, right?
On the plus side, the Glock hasn't self-destructed yet.
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Well, S&W is officially off the list. Called them about my 351 today, as I'd not heard anything in over 3 weeks. Was told that it was moved from warranty repairs to charged repairs and they haven't had a chance to work up an estimate yet. I told him I was informed that since it was a brand new revolver and the trigger really sucks it would be worked on under warranty. He said they don't do any work on rimfire triggers. I told him to send it back and maybe they should let the other CSRs know that they don't fix rimfire triggers, no matter how horrible they are.
After hanging up it hit me that if they don't work on rimfire triggers, what was the estimate for? Anyway, I'm going to sell it and get a revolver from another company for my wife. We tried Taurus .22mag revolvers at the NRA show, and their triggers are quite a bit better than S&W's. Before anyone mentions quality control issues with Taurus...it can't be any worse than what I've experienced from Springfield and S&W recently. Plus, their CS is said to be excellent.
Still no job, no opportunities on the horizon, and no one has called me to interview in over a month. But the economy's getting better, right?
On the plus side, the Glock hasn't self-destructed yet.
I've got a Taurus rimfire revolver in .17hmr and love it. I think it's got a very decent factory trigger, a little under 9lbs DA and 2.5 SA on my Timney scale. Taurus won't win any popularity awards but I think they're overall a good value. These days with guns it's nice if you simply get what you pay for and I think they at least do that. I'm happy with my PT-145 for what it is, I actually prefer it to the Glock 30 overall and I'm a Glock person. As far as your .45 non-1911 I still say on a budget look at the Ruger P345 or even the Taurus PT145 or 845 and if you want to spend a bit more you can't miss with a FNP-45.
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My vote goes for the P220 as well, I moved to the .40S&W round for everything in handguns but if I went with a .45 it would be my first pick.
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Still no job, no opportunities on the horizon, and no one has called me to interview in over a month. But the economy's getting better, right?
With all the problems you've had with S&W, send them a resume and offer to take over their CS, kick butt, and get them back up to snuff.
Keep swinging pardner, that homerun IS out there.
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With all the problems you've had with S&W, send them a resume and offer to take over their CS, kick butt, and get them back up to snuff.
Keep swinging pardner, that homerun IS out there.
Thanks, brother.
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The saga continues. It's now been a week since telling S&W to send back my POS revolver. I called them today to find out when it was shipped and when I can expect its return. IT'S STILL THERE! They haven't done anything with it. But Jeff assured me he would make sure it got shipped out today. Un-freaking-believable.
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The saga continues. It's now been a week since telling S&W to send back my POS revolver. I called them today to find out when it was shipped and when I can expect its return. IT'S STILL THERE! They haven't done anything with it. But Jeff assured me he would make sure it got shipped out today. Un-freaking-believable.
Dude, your turn in the barrel has lasted way too long.........continued hopes for a resolution.
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Heard anything yet BAC from S&W? Hope you are not referring to the same Jeff I left a voicemail for on Tuesday. Still has not returned my call.
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Well it was finally returned last week. After sitting on it for a week after I told them to send it back, and after my complaints made it up to the head of marketing for S&W, they waited an extra day and sent it back 2nd day air. Lucky for me it was returned completely untouched.
My wife, who is infinitely more forgiving than I am, wants to try it again or see if we can find a local gunsmith to work on the trigger for us.
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Which leads me to my advice request: What have you guys used that you can recommend to me that's
1. .45acp
2. Made in America
3. NOT a 1911
4. Reliable as Hell
(http://i812.photobucket.com/albums/zz50/billt460/BabyDesertEagle45ACP.jpg)
This "Baby Desert Eagle" meets all 4 of your requirements. #2 might be argued as mine was made in Israel, but I believe the newer ones are made here, and include an accessory rail. It's got a lot going for it. 10 round .45 ACP capacity, all steel construction, runs like a raped ape, good 3 dot sights, excellent trigger, and it's rugged as hell. It is also very easy to field strip and clean. Much like a Glock, and can be had for about the same price.
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EAA Witness .45 Modeled after the CZ. 10+1. Alright imported,....but....
Or the Ruger P90, with drum magazine,..... :o
;D
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EAA Witness .45 Modeled after the CZ. 10+1.
That's a hell of a pistol for $434.00. Bill T.
http://www.davidsonsinc.com/consumers/subsites/inven_product.asp?dealer_id=615383&item=999158&instock=all&manufact_combo=European+American+Armory&mod_ser_combo=None&category_combo=None&model=None&g_type=None&act_type=&finish_type=None&calib_combo=None&sight_class_combo=None&price_range=None&left_handed=&youth=&Offset_rec=0&num_rec=50&item_num=