The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: kilopaparomeo on March 12, 2008, 05:16:01 PM
-
Just got back from the Illinois Appleseed… (long with pics)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
…and I didn’t shoot Rifleman but I did learn a lot.
I won’t spend a lot of time going over the Appleseed concept http://rwva.blogspot.com/ (that’s what the Search function is for) but I will say it does align well with what I think of rifle shooting. I’ve really come to be fond of the concept of controlling a 500 yard radius with iron sights And aimed, rapid fire, but where I shoot (northern Illinois) I’m pretty much limited to shooting off a bench and one-cartridge-in-the-magazine at a time. Unfortunately, this trend tends to breed a whole generation of “shooters” that get their AK, slap a bipod and scope on it and proceed to shoot 6” groups off a bench. While I know high power competition is a great teacher, I’ve never found the time to get in that sport. So, the Appleseed course seemed like it was tailor-made to what I am looking for.
Here’s a rundown of what we did. The school was held at Darnall’s Range outside of Bloomington, IL. http://www.darnalls.com/ The folks there were very accommodating, allowed camping and served some very hearty lunches. Weather was not too bad…high 70’s/low 80’s, rain showers on and off, hot sun when the clouds broke, a bit humid. The course went like this:
Saturday – Start with registration and range safety/rifle grounding brief from the instructors. April 19, 1775 history lesson from Fred (one of many…the man CAN tell a story). Down to the range and learn proper prone position and 6-steps to firing. Fire several 1-inch sighter targets and ball n’ dummy to check zero and technique. Fire “Redcoat” target to check prone. Learn proper sitting and standing positions with firing in between. Fire first Quick n Dirty AQT (QDAQT). Lunch. Rest of afternoon alternating qual AQT and QDAQT to reinforce techniques in all positions. End day with Redcoat and QDAQT. Another history lesson. Total round count ~ 120
Sunday – Start with history lesson. Down to range and fire a QDAQT. Drill technique. Add 3-man team drills focusing on high-stress rapid fire – these were great…run 50 yards to line, sling up, drop to prone, load and fire 10 rounds all into single target, all in 60 seconds. Object was most number of hits to 1” star. My team won…reward was first in line to lunch. More ball ‘n dummy and qual AQT then QDAQT. Finally we shot a “volley fire” Redcoat (shoot all in unison on command for AQT score…tougher than it sounds). End with history lesson. Total round count ~ 170
AQT course of fire:
All targets from 25 m range -- 100, 200, 300, 400 m simulated targets as you work your way down
100: standing -- 10 rounds
200: sitting -- 2 round/3 round with a mag change on target 1, 5 rounds on target 2
300: prone -- rapid fire 2 rounds, mag change, 1 round on target 1, 3 rounds on target 2, 4 rounds on target 3
400: slow fire prone -- 2 rounds on target 1, mag change, 2 rounds on target 2, 3 rounds on target 3, 3 rounds on target 4
Here’s what I learned:
Self Awareness – I thought I was an OK rifle shot (I’m an NRA Rifle Instructor) but I really didn’t know how I’d do from the positions with a high rate of aimed fire. I’m definitely not the best, and thankfully not the worst.
Learning New Stuff is Hard – I started out great during the sighters but, by the end of day 1, I was very discouraged. I barely shot Marksman (>125 points) on the first QDAQT and thought all was lost. Day 2, however, showed steady improvement in scores. I never shot Rifleman (210 points) but I improved by over 50%.
Little Things Matter – I finally feel comfortable using slings. NPOA is outrageously important. “Dragging wood” (trigger finger laying on stock during squeeze) will throw shots. Adjusting elevation and windage with muscles doesn’t work for long. Cadence works (firing every 2-3 seconds instead of waiting for the perfect shot “magically” seems to actually improve your scores – my best shooting was during the 60 second-running-3-man-team drills).
Equipment is Important – I’m not advocating getting all mall ninja’d up. We had a few of those guys show up…they didn’t shoot so good. Good sights, good trigger, good mags, decent ammo, knee pads, a shooting coat, a decent shooting mat will go a long way to making your day easier and let you focus on shooting. This doesn’t mean you need a $2500 rifle. It does mean that taking as many “excuses” out will let you focus on fundamentals.
Don’t Drink Lots of Coffee Before Shooting – my Venti Starbucks Dark Roast right before the first AQT of Day 2 made my legs shake so bad I couldn’t finish the standing stage.
Shooters Are Nice People – we had all kinds. White collar, blue collar. Rich, not so rich. Urban, rural. Several ethnicities. Mostly M1As, but also some Garands, an FAL, a CETME, several ARs, a 03A3, a Mauser, an AK, a bunch of .22’s. By the end of the 2 days there was a lot of camaraderie, story swapping, and genuine well-intentioned, mutual coaching. I traded business cards with several guys.
A really good program. I’ll go again. They struck a nice balance in teaching and practical exercises as well as firm instruction without being too “drill sergeant”. Here’s a few pics…I was shooting and learning so much, I didn’t have time to take more.
My first sighters compared to the guy next to me (which was fairly typical)…I started getting cocky at this point. Stupid.
This is mine
(http://i7.tinypic.com/52bgoec.jpg)
This is the guy next to me (pretty typical of others)...this is a great example of why, when people scoff at the idea of shooting a high powered rifle at 25 yards, you should say "then show me how good you are". Most will shoot like crap when they have to take the rifle off the bench, use a position/sling and use the iron sights.
(http://i15.tinypic.com/5yuq3dk.jpg)
Here’s one of the instructors showing us prone
(http://i17.tinypic.com/4umt9c0.jpg)
Compared to me…hmmm, he looked better.
(http://i15.tinypic.com/4tr4sgk.jpg)
Looking up the firing line
(http://i9.tinypic.com/539uck2.jpg)
Ball n’ dummy coaching
(http://i19.tinypic.com/54eao8y.jpg)
Standing (sitting was too painful so I didn’t have time to get the camera out)
(http://i8.tinypic.com/4tu38zr.jpg)
First Redcoat target from day 1 compared to last one on Day 2
(http://i11.tinypic.com/6gnmpus.jpg)
First QDAQT (sucky)
(http://i16.tinypic.com/67i2p1i.jpg)
Midway through 2nd day
(http://i10.tinypic.com/6ezxrfk.jpg)
Last qual and Volley Redcoat
(http://i15.tinypic.com/4p13clj.jpg)
Again, I highly recommend going. You’ll probably learn a lot.
-
That was a great report on the Appleseed weekend, I have been quite interested in it. If you dont mind me asking, how much experience would you say you had going into it. I saw that you were a NRA instructor. Have you been shooting since you were a boy, or just recently. Thanks, and that looks like some great improvement.
-
I've been shooting since I was about 10 so that would make it over 30 years. That said, I've only been into rifles for the last 5 or 6 years. The courses I teach with my NRA Instructor-ship frankly are more about safety (appropriately) and the very basics of shooting. I've learned MUCH more in Appleseed than I ever did in any NRA course. I'll be a better instructor now that I know the finer points of position, sling, trigger and breath control.
You don't need any experience but it will be much more enjoyable for you (and the rest of the class) if you know the basics of safety, how your rifle works and know how to zero/have already zero-ed. Also, if you are uncomfortable with a high powered rifle, you can show up with a .22 LR and be graciously accepted. Fred used to look down on anything but .30 cal...he's gotten over that and AR15s and .22 LRs are welcome. As long as you are shooting, it's all good.
This isn't a competition and I can honestly say that no one looked down on the guys who struggled...everyone was genuinely helpful and it was a great learning environment.
Here's a primer on how to put together a 10/22 that will be acceptable for use.
______________________________________________________
Participating in an Appleseed event does not require an expensive
Military Style Battle Rifle or an investment in expensive
ammunition. Over time the search for a cheaper-shooting
alternative to the traditional centerfire rifle, has lead to the
development of what has come to be known as the “Liberty
Training Rifle”. Here is a summary of the basic components you will
need to build this tool.
The Ruger 10/22 rifle has become the foundation of this project because of it's low price, accuracy and many available
after market parts. Either the 'carbine' or 'rifle' length barrels are suitable for building a Liberty Training Rifle.The
addition of a US GI style sling, adjustable sights and a quick magazine release will provide the shooter with improved
controls to support the development of new skills.
The USGI Military nylon/cotton web sling, is adjustable which makes it easy to used in the
hasty and loop sling positions to significantly increase the accuracy of any shooter. Visit
http://www.ray-vin.com/tech/websling/webslinghelp.htm for details. Many shooters are
amazed at the difference it makes. Starting with a wooden stock begin by installing Uncle
Mike's Swivel Stud 115 B Set. Install the studs one inch from the forend and buttstock.
Drilling a pilot hole will make for easier installation. Using Red Loctite will create a solid
connection before adding Uncle Mike's Quick-Detachable (QD) 1¼ “ swivels.
Installing a set of Tech Sights (www.tech-sights.com)will provide a longer sighting radius,
improved sight picture and increased adjustably. to dial in your shots as your skills improve.
They mount directly to the 10/22 using existing holes requiring no additional hardware. These
sights will provide easy windage and elevation adjustments and the sight picture is similar to
the M1 Garand, Springfield M1A and the AR-15 rifles. Tech-Sight also offers an inexpensive
adjustment tool for their sights and it is well worth the investment.
Because of the rapid tempo of some Appleseed Training exercises, and the magazine changes
required during some courses of fire, the stock magazine release is replaced by most shooters.
Prices range from $5.00 for a functional polymer release to what ever you want to invest in a
custom model. What ever you choose, get one that extends at least 1/2” longer than stock for
best function.
The Ruger factory magazines have been found to be very reliable. Plan on bringing 3-5 magazines to an Appleseed
event. There is no need to invest in high capacity after market magazines that will interfere with prone postion
shooting. Most shooters are pleased to discover that inexpensive rim fire ammo works adequately in most Liberty
Training Rifles. Buy some 50 rd sample packs to discover your rifles preference before buying in bulk quantity. Picking
up a .22 cal bore snake and some cleaning supplies will complete your training toolkit.
These simple updates will provide you with an accurate functional rifle that can used to improve your marksmanship
skills.
-
Here is a short one that I did... it is not pretty..
------------------------------------------------------------
I will say that the experience can be very sobering. Here I went to one knowing that I wasn't too bad of a shot, and shot "unqualified' all weekend. Basically I can't hit the side of a barn while standing in it. For those that don't know, there are four levels, three of which are below Rifleman. Actually only two, as unqualified is just that. So I have been sent to permanent Latrine duty as I don't rate cook. I tried to get back to Radioman, but something said about not being able to defend the communications gear prevented me from doing that. :)
It was good to see many new shooters make Rifleman, and at least half did, probably more. I finally packed it up at the end of the second day since I was not improving, and I had broken my second, and last, sling. So, I had to order some new slings (I am not sure I am glad I had a spare.. :) ) to replace the broken ones.
------------------------------------------------------------
I will say that I had a VERY BAD weekend. I came close to heatstroke the first day, and did about equally as bad the second day. I have shot the "Fred's" targets for years, long before there was and Appleseed, and I have shot Rifleman many a time with this very same rifle, my FAL. A friend of mine that has shot with me for years, was shocked at how bad I was doing, and so was my wife. The next weekend I shot Rifleman again at home. Of course it is not official yet, as it has not been at a 'seed, but I will get it yet. We have one coming up here next month. Sometimes you just have a very very bad day..
-Bidah
-
Kilopaparomeo,
Great report. Very complete. Makes one want to take the course.
Bidah,
Take heart, we know you can do it.
-
Is there a schedule, will there be on in NH anytime soon ?
-
Is there a schedule, will there be on in NH anytime soon ?
Here's a schedule, Tom.
http://www.appleseedinfo.org/as_schedule.htm
-
Thankyou Haz, The closest one is in Vt. about 150 miles from here, Have to see if I can work something out.