The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: Hazcat on March 13, 2008, 12:09:47 PM
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Haven Police Ditch Glocks After Two Explode
Two of 90 Glock Model 37 pistols blew up in separate training incidents a year apart.
PAUL JOHNNSON | THE LEDGER
PART OF A BRASS SHELL CASING that exploded during target practice is seen above embedded in the magazine of a .45 caliber Glock handgun at the Winter Haven Police Department on Wednesday.
By Merissa Green
The Ledger
Write an email to Merissa GreenMerissa Green
Winter Haven/Lake Alfred Reporter
Dept.: East Polk News
(863) 401-6968
merissa.green@theledger.com
WINTER HAVEN | The Police Department is ditching $38,000 worth of guns after two .45-caliber GAP Glock Model 37 pistols exploded in separate training incidents a year a part, causing minor injuries to an officer and a cadet.
$10,000 The department tried to work out a solution with Glock. The gun's Georgia-based manufacturer offered to swap out the nearly 2 1/2 -year-old guns if the department paid the company $10,000. But Police Chief Mark LeVine said that is unfair.
GLOCK MODEL 37Caliber: .45
Magazine Capacity: 10 rounds
Overall Length: 7.32 inches
Height (Including magazine): 5.51 inches
Width: 1.18 inches
Barrel Length: 4.49 inches
Weight (loaded): 35.48 oz
Source: www.glock.com
PAUL JOHNSON | LEDGER PHOTOS
DETECTIVE SGT. JIM JONES of Winter Haven police examines one of the department's Glock .45 caliber G.A.P. handguns, a model that hasn't caused problems. Two of the department's Glock weapons have exploded in practice.
Enlarge
PAUL JOHNNSON | THE LEDGER
PARTS OF THE TRIGGER MECHANISM of a Glock handgun that blew up during target practice are shown below the trigger guard at the Winter Haven Police Department on Wednesday.
"I've been around 34 years in law enforcement, and we've seen malfunctioning with guns, but never seen it explode," Police Chief Mark LeVine said.
"When I've got two guns out of 90 mess up, something's wrong."
The department has not had any problems with the guns during use in the line of duty.
The force of the explosions came down through the bottom of the guns and blew the triggers off, LeVine said.
Police Officer Frank Scianimanico, 32, and then-cadet Rodrique Jean-Louis, 20, suffered bruised fingers in the separate incidents.
As a result, the department will try an all-metal gun as a possible replacement for the plastic Glock during weapons testing Tuesday and March 20.
LeVine issued a memo Feb. 1 to his officers saying that if anyone was uncomfortable carrying the Glock they could carry a personal weapon instead, as long as the gun meets the department's requirements.
The department tried to work out a solution with Glock. The gun's Georgia-based manufacturer offered to swap out the nearly 2 1/2-year-old guns if the department paid the company $10,000.
But LeVine said that is unfair.
"I personally question if it should cost us anything at all," the chief said.
A Glock spokesman said the company is aware of the Winter Haven incidents, but hasn't had the opportunity to examine the guns yet.
"Without looking at the pistol, there's no way for us to make a determination," said Glock spokesman Carlos Guevara.
FIRST EXPLOSION
The first incident occurred in January 2007 when a Glock exploded while being used by Jean-Louis, a former cadet the department was sponsoring at the Polk Community College Kenneth C. Thompson Institute of Public Safety, which trains prospective police officers.
Department officials dismissed the incident as the fault of bad ammunition, and so did Glock.
The second incident, the one involving Scianiamancio, was this January during training at the department's shooting range at the Winter Haven Airport.
"We had another explode in the same fashion," LeVine said. "We've only got 90 guns, and two failed. It has caused a certain amount of uneasiness."
The issue seems to be with the gun, which only Glock makes, LeVine said.
The Polk County Sheriff's Office uses a different Glock, the .40-caliber Model 22 pistol, but there haven't been any incidents with it, said spokeswoman Carrie Rodgers.
The Sheriff's Office switched last year to the Glocks after using Smith & Wessons. The Glocks cost the agency $350 per gun, compared with $560 for the .45-caliber Smith & Wessons deputies were using.
"They're easier to fire, more accurate, and they hold more ammunition," Rodgers said.
Lake Alfred Police Chief Art Bodenheimer said he would never let his officers use a Glock after he saw a video demonstration of one being partially disassembled after being jammed.
His officers use Smith & Wessons instead, because it is an all-metal gun, compared to the plastic Glock, he said.
"I'm not a Glock enthusiast," Bodenheimer said.
The Winter Haven Police Department isn't the only one that has had problem with Glocks. At least two other law enforcement agencies have reported issues.
elsewhere in u.s.
Two .45-caliber Glock Model 21 pistols exploded in the hands of two officers at the Portland Police Department, according to a 2004 article in The Oregonian newspaper. That department then switched to 9 mm Glocks.
In 2006, The Oregonian reported an officer who was injured when his gun exploded filed a multi-million-dollar lawsuit against Glock and the ammunition manufacturer.
In Pennsylvania, a training officer with the Upper Darby Township Police Department said his department used to carry the Glock Model 21 before it started jamming.
The department is now testing a different model of Glock. "We can't get a reason why it keeps happening," he said.
Guevara said Glock's guns aren't defective, and malfunctioning incidents at other agencies are attributed to ammunition or maintenance of the guns.
And the fact that the Portland Police Department switched to a different Glock model is an indication of how good Glock guns are, Guevara said.
[ Merissa Green can be reached at merissa.green@theledger.com or 863-401-6968. Visit her blogs at aandl.theledger.com. ]
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http://www.theledger.com/article/20080313/NEWS/803130481/1039
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Have heard of the kabooms with the 9mm Glock but not the .45. Unsupported chamber not going into battery and kaboom. They will fire out of battery. I had a G-22 for 17 years and never had a problem. Wonder if their quality control has slipped or just poor pistolship?
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The only problem I have ever had with my G23 is directly attributed to bad ammo. I bought factory remans at the local range and the shell split and blew out the extractor. The smith/owner of the shop replaced the extractor and ammo and I've used it a lot in the years since.
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No one in Haven questioned the ammo being used?
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Hmm, Glad I went with an optional wepon . A revolver (S&W 586) It was a caliber choice .40 vs 357. The .40 had not yet been proven reliable at that time. Thanks for the heads up Mr. HAZCAT.
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My Glock 37 blew up with me, blowing out the extractor, and the magazine. The case head completly separated from the case. I sent the G37 and case to Glock, who said that it was BAD AMMO. The glock chamber is 5/1000 over sammi spec, and the case is unsupported. Glock installed the lost extractor and the firing pin then sent it back to me as said that it met factory spec. It didn't meet my specs, I sold it the next week, and replaced it with an XD service model. I have a Glock 17 remaining, but my G22, G23. G30 an G 37 has gone. I may replace the G17. Incidently, the XD chamber IS sammi spec, AND the chamber is 100 % supported. No more Glocks for me.
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Glock ofcorese said it was the ammo... but the thing of it is it was 45 gap... and its happend to more then just one agency... all with 45 gaps... really makes you wonder...
I'm just waiting for the kool aid drinkers to jump on this thread.
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My department was experiencing a great number of malfunctions with the g19 in both duty and training incidents to an alarming degree. After years of attempting to have Glock remedy the problem Glock still insisted the weapons were reliable and deemed the malfunctions as user error. It wasn't till Ruger was given a trial run to replace the Glock contract that Glock decided to set up camp at the outdoor range and modify the "perfectly reliable" slides of each officers g19 as they requalified with a loaner. Simply based on my own experience I would never trust my life to Glocks design. From day one in the academy Glock users needed additional malfunction clearing drills while the S&W and Sig guys never had a problem. It's time for Glock to update there design.
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Well, this is an interesting story. I own many Glocks. I have shot literally thousands and thousands of trouble free rounds with no explosions. How is this possible?.. Maybe because I keep my barrels clean! And I don't use extra-high powered ammo. I know many civilians, as well as law enforcement officers that carry Glocks and have done so for years without any problems what so ever! I've only heard of one case where a Glock cracked open with a local sheriff's department deputy. And guess what he had been shooting excessively hot reloads in his Glock for over a year before the crack. This was a trained law enforcement officer with experience, who still didn't follow the directions and didn't properly clean his weapon. That was not the guns fault. It was the deputy's fault. Yet, the gun will naturally recieve the blame because in today's world everyone looks for someone else to blame and you also have an older generation of people who generally just don't like Glocks because over the last twenty years or so they took over america's handgun market ..by storm. They took Smith& Wesson's law enforcement market. And what do we see now with the M&Ps, XD's, etc.. everyone has jumped on the polymer frame bandwagon. Unfortunetely, many "old medal frame gun lovers" hate this and will do any and everything in their power to constantly badmouth Glock with any chance they get. Guess what metal guns Kaboom too.. even some 1911's. It's not just a Glock problem or issue, but considering that Glock is one of the best sellers of all time.. (especially in law enforcement), then you are going to hear about it more. Perhaps these Glocks had a problem. Perhaps not. If you add up every single Glock Kaboom and divided by the number of Glock guns sold. It would be no higher or worse than anybody else's manufacturing problems/ issues. You got to understand Glock outsells 2,3,4 times as many pistols each year compared to it's competitors. So, guess what.. it only seems like Glocks are horrible. Kinda like how the media shows you "another shooting today, another school massacre, another fast food restaurant shooting today..and it appears that america get shot up everyday..everywhere." Well guess what, it doesn't. In fact out of the 300 million people living here gun shootings are rare. And guess what the same analogy applies to Glocks. They don't all blow up all the time.. and I wish that people would look at the truth and stop trying to hate Glock... b/c they just don't like them.