The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: blackwolfe on May 21, 2011, 04:04:02 PM
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This happened in my neck of the woods. I figured the guy would get fired, but at least he and the other employees can kiss their wives goodnight and hug their children. Walgreens fires the guy by email?
http://www.heraldpalladium.com/articles/2011/05/18/local_news/4820927.txt
BENTON TOWNSHIP - A photograph of four children tucked in a thank-you card from a coworker reminds Jeremy Hoven he did the right thing.
But doing "the right thing" cost the night shift pharmacist his job at the Walgreens drugstore at Napier Avenue and M-139. The national pharmacy chain fired Hoven on Monday, eight days after he fired his handgun to foil an armed robbery and a potentially deadly hostage situation at the store.
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The two masked gunmen fled after Hoven fired three or four shots from his revolver during the 4:30 a.m. incident May 8, a Sunday.
The card came from the family of a Walgreens manager who had been working that shift. Hoven, who spoke in measured, crisp tones, got a little emotional showing the card during an interview Tuesday at The Herald-Palladium.
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Hoven said his first hint something was wrong was seeing a manager run into a storeroom on the building's west side. Seconds later he saw a man brandishing a handgun, guiding the second manager around the shelf at the northeast corner.
"The first thing I tried to do was dial 911 but I couldn't get it done," Hoven said. "Within seconds he was over the counter. And I'm looking at the wrong end of a 9-millimeter (gun). He was holding it gangster-style" - sideways.
The robber had jumped over the counter, leaving the manager in the aisle. The robber came within a few feet of Hoven.
Hoven said the only thing behind the attacker was a cinder block wall. Thus he pulled his gun and fired three or four shots.
"I was creating a safe zone for myself," he said.
The attacker tried to fire back, but his gun either malfunctioned or the safety had been left on, Hoven said.
The two gunmen ran out of the store.
There have been no arrests in the case, and police suspect the one gunman was wounded. However, Hoven said there was no blood on the floor.
Hoven said the drugstore cameras indicate 42 seconds elapsed from when the men entered and when they left.
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More at link above.
Although not specifically mentioned in the article, the reason the gun "malfuntioned" is that indeed the safety was "on". The reason they think one of the bad guys may have been wounded is that he is seen flinching when one of the shots is fired. I personaly wonder if the flinch is really the bad guy crapping his pants.
If you go to the Herald Palladium websight the earlier stories are available. Comments well worth reading.
http://www.heraldpalladium.com/articles/2011/05/18/local_news/4823861.txt
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And he is fired why? They are open at 4:30 am with no armed security (pharmacy, hello?) and they fire a guy for packing? I think the CEO should be forced to work grave yard at one of their Detroit branches for a month. Then we'll see what the policy is. As it stands, maybe a lawsuit for hazardous working conditions? >:(
FQ13
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And he is fired why? They are open at 4:30 am with no armed security (pharmacy, hello?) and they fire a guy for packing? I think the CEO should be forced to work grave yard at one of their Detroit branches for a month. Then we'll see what the policy is. As it stands, maybe a lawsuit for hazardous working conditions? >:(
FQ13
Same reason Pizza Hut in Des Moines fired a delivery driver who shot his way out of an ambush robbery in a bad part of town a couple of years ago. They're ignorant asshats.
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Same reason Pizza Hut in Des Moines fired a delivery driver who shot his way out of an ambush robbery in a bad part of town a couple of years ago. They're ignorant asshats.
That'saboutitinanutshell.
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Time to let Walgreens know you'll not be doing business with them in the future and the reason is the firing of Jeremy Hoven.
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Yep, did that. Here is the response I received:
"Thank you for contacting Walgreens regarding this matter. Our policies in this area are designed to maintain the maximum safety of our customers and employees.Store employees receive comprehensive training on our company’s robbery procedures and how to react and respond to a potential robbery situation. In past incidents, employees have told us they’ve found this training effective.These policies and training programs are endorsed by law enforcement, which strongly advises against confrontation of crime suspects.Compliance is safer than confrontation. Through this practice, we have been able to maintain an exemplary record of safety.We’ve made significant investments in security technology in recent years, including increasing the number of digital surveillance cameras at our stores.With upgrades to security technology, we are able to provide police with high-resolution photographs and video of crime suspects.We continue to invest in state-of-the-art security measures and high-definition surveillance equipment and hope that the apprehension of robbery suspects in the Benton Harbor area will prevent future crimes. Thank you for contacting Walgreens to share your comments.
Sincerely,
Ella
Consumer Response Representative
Ref # 3088874"
I noticed that they did not quote what I said in their response. Since I used the contact page I don't have a record. Of course no where in my email did I ask about their ability to help AFTER the attack, which is pretty much what the response was about. Apparently none of those victims who have been shot over the past few years AFTER complying count. Nope, still shopping there.
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I get their concerns about a customer getting zapped in a firefight, and it something to be taken seriously (from a liability stand point). Still, the way to avoid all of the concern is to hire armed security. It doesn't need to be a dedicated officer. Just pay a regular employ extra and provide the weapon and class fees to get the security licence. But absent this, relying on camera's as detterence is pure foolishness. Its a freaking pharmacy! You are going to get robbed by junkies wanting vicodin and oxy. Not the most rational of folks. Deterrence and compliance won't cut it. This isn't a bank where you are normally dealing with rational people. You are dealing with addicts. You need defense on the spot. This should be plain as day.
FQ13
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Compliance is safer than confrontation.
Tell that to the two convenience store clerks in northern Iowa who were shot in the face and killed so they couldn't call the cops AFTER COMPLYING AND GIVING UP THE CASH.
BTW, both convenience stores had security cameras, too. It helped the cops get the right dirtbag, but a fat lot of good it did the clerks.
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"Thank you for contacting Walgreens regarding this matter. Our policies in this area are designed to maintain the maximum safety of our customers and employees.Store employees receive comprehensive training on our company’s robbery procedures and how to react and respond to a potential robbery situation. In past incidents, employees have told us they’ve found this training effective.These policies and training programs are endorsed by law enforcement, which strongly advises against confrontation of crime suspects.Compliance is safer than confrontation. Through this practice, we have been able to maintain an exemplary record of safety.We’ve made significant investments in security technology in recent years, including increasing the number of digital surveillance cameras at our stores.With upgrades to security technology, we are able to provide police with high-resolution photographs and video of crime suspects.We continue to invest in state-of-the-art security measures and high-definition surveillance equipment and hope that the apprehension of robbery suspects in the Benton Harbor area will prevent future crimes. Thank you for contacting Walgreens to share your comments.
Sincerely,
Ella
Consumer Response Representative
Ref # 3088874"
This is security? Sounds like surveillance to me. What ever they call it, it sure makes me feel safe as I go into a Walgreens.
Pecos
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Tell that to the two convenience store clerks in northern Iowa who were shot in the face and killed so they couldn't call the cops AFTER COMPLYING AND GIVING UP THE CASH.
BTW, both convenience stores had security cameras, too. It helped the cops get the right dirtbag, but a fat lot of good it did the clerks.
I can asure you they would have both been just as dead if they fought back.
Thats not something you do on a whim, The POS planed to kill them.
How you stop armed robberys like this is simple... you do what the sherrif of pulaski county( the county little rock AR is in) did in the 70s. He had a press confrence saying there would be plain clothed LEOs in som convenience stores, with orders to shoot on site. For the 1st few nights nothing happen, then two people "got lucky" and picked the wrong store to rob. they were both shot and killed. they did not have another armed robbery on a convenience store for 19 months.
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I can asure you they would have both been just as dead if they fought back.
Thats not something you do on a whim, The POS planed to kill them.
How you stop armed robberys like this is simple... you do what the sherrif of pulaski county( the county little rock AR is in) did in the 70s. He had a press confrence saying there would be plain clothed LEOs in som convenience stores, with orders to shoot on site. For the 1st few nights nothing happen, then two people "got lucky" and picked the wrong store to rob. they were both shot and killed. they did not have another armed robbery on a convenience store for 19 months.
You would first have to assure us they would have been acting on a whim, which is something you cannot do.
If the clerks were armed and ready, they would not be acting on a whim any more than the LEOs who were there in the 70s
There was a town in TX back in the 70s too where the Sheriff conducted firearms courses for business owners. At the time it was ridiculed by the other small town just down the road.
after the classes a couple of stores were attempted to be robbed and the robbers were killed.
The robbery rate in that town went to zero while the rate in the town down the road doubled.
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I can asure you they would have both been just as dead if they fought back.
How in the world do you make that jump into fantasy land? I hope you don't give the same advice to potential rape victims.
How you stop armed robberys like this is simple...
Yes, it is.
The same way you stop other violent crimes.....when all else fails, shoot the sumbitch.
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The same way you stop other violent crimes.....when all else fails, shoot the sumbitch.
Yep.
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How in the world do you make that jump into fantasy land? I hope you don't give the same advice to potential rape victims.
There is a huge diffrence between a physical attack at contact distance and a guy point a gun at you with a counter in the way.
If a scum bag shot 2 people in the face in 2 diffrent robberys so there was no witness, they were planing on doing that in the 1st place.
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There is a huge diffrence between a physical attack at contact distance and a guy point a gun at you with a counter in the way.
If a scum bag shot 2 people in the face in 2 diffrent robberys so there was no witness, they were planing on doing that in the 1st place.
The pharmacist in Walgreens must have not have gotten your message. When the bad guy pointed a gun at him, that fool drew his own weapon, fired and perhaps hit his assailant, and drove the two bad guys out of the store, possibly saving his own life and the lives of the other workers.
What an idiot. He should have known he was sure to die if he resisted. Some people never learn.
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Cotter said he would not release store video images until there are arrests.
Ummm WTF is the point of having cameras if you are not even going to show them to the public to try and catch these assholes?
Hope the bloke sues their asses off for wrongful termination.
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This story is kind of tangential to the OP, so I decided to post it here instead of a new thread:
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jVDJbdVgXE56lVzbJeZX2krugRAg?docId=30f266df419846b0adb0e78d8c5db814
Police: Gunman at NY pharmacy wanted painkillers
YAPHANK, N.Y. (AP) — Four people killed during a pharmacy store robbery in suburban New York City, including a teenager due to graduate high school this week, were shot at very close range by a dangerous suspect intent on stealing painkillers, a police official said Monday.
Suffolk County Police Commissioner Richard Dormer also warned physicians and the owners of small drugstores in the area to be vigilant about anyone "expressing an urgent need for prescription painkillers." He said added police patrols would be deployed near small pharmacies until a suspect is apprehended.
Dormer called Sunday's killing at the Long Island pharmacy "one of the most heinous, brutal crimes we have ever encountered."
The shootings happened at about 10:20 a.m. inside Haven Drugs in Medford, a family-owned pharmacy in a small cluster of medical offices about 60 miles east of New York City. Police identified the two employees who were killed as pharmacist Raymond Ferguson, 45, of Centereach, and store clerk Jennifer Mejia, 17, of East Patchogue.
Bryon Sheffield, 71, of Medford, and Jamie Taccetta, a 33-year-old woman from Farmingville, were identified as customers who were also slain.
"The victims whose lives were cut tragically short were killed for no apparent reason and without warning," Dormer said. "They offered no resistance and did not appear to provoke the assailant. They were all shot at close range."
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Bold emphasis is mine
http://thetruthaboutguns.com/2011/06/robert-farago/self-defense-tip-shoot-the-bastard/
Self-Defense Tip: Shoot the Bastard
Four people killed during a pharmacy store robbery in suburban New York City, including a teenager due to graduate high school this week, were shot at very close range by a dangerous suspect intent on stealing painkillers,” our friends at the AP report. “Suffolk County Police Commissioner Richard Dormer [said] police patrols would be deployed near small pharmacies until a suspect is apprehended.” Yeah, that’s going to do it. Aside from railing against a state that infringes on Americans’ god-given right to armed self-defense, how about this: if you have a gun you must be ready, willing and able to use it. To do that, you have to master the grieving process . . .
Life is a constant grieving process. New job? Kid entering puberty? Switching from PC to Mac? New car? 40th birthday? You have to let go of the old before you can embrace the new. We do so in five stages: denial, anger, bargaining, depression, acceptance.
To maintain enough presence of mind to act responsibly and effectively in an armed self-defense situation, you have to drop your attachment to the non-armed self defense reality that preceded the event. You have to grieve for peace and prepare for war. And you have seconds to do it. Tear through them.
-----more at link above-------