The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: mkm on May 22, 2011, 10:10:16 PM
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I know this is a gun site and all, but we seem to cover a wide range of topics. I'm also pretty sure I could find some
sound advice on brain surgery on here if I asked. ;)
I'm leaving for an 8 week trip to China in a few weeks and have pretty much decided that my little pocket sized camera just won't do the trip justice. I'm wanting to get a digital slr, but I pretty much have no idea what to look for or what might be a good choice. I'm looking for something reasonably priced that is still of respectable quality and takes good pictures. I'm no professional and it doesn't have to be either. I have a couple of lenses that fit a nikon, but it's not essential that the new camera accepts them if another brand would be a better choice.
I hope to take a wide variety of pictures (people, buildings, art, animals, landscapes, etc.); so, something versatile would be best.
Any specific camera suggestions or necessary features for it to have would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
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I bought my wife the Nikon slr d3000. It takes amazing pictures and I highly recomend it. If she goes to wally world to print them they always ask her if they are professional hence copy writed. We had to get her name on a list that says she takes her own photos. I bought it at a camera store for the same price that Best Buy had it and got the pro's of tech support.
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What do you consider reasonably priced? Does it have to be an SLR? There are lots of compact cameras out there that take amazing photos. How much control over the exposure do you require, or are you going to just use the camera on auto all the time? There are lots and lots of really good cameras out there. The first step is to find out how much you want to spend.
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What do you consider reasonably priced? Does it have to be an SLR? There are lots of compact cameras out there that take amazing photos. How much control over the exposure do you require, or are you going to just use the camera on auto all the time? There are lots and lots of really good cameras out there. The first step is to find out how much you want to spend.
I was thinking max $1,000 preferably a couple hundred less. I don't guess it has to be SLR; that just seemed the best way to go. I, however, know very little about cameras/photography and may be heading in the wrong direction. I would probably use it on auto most of the time, but I'd like to learn to take fancier photos. I currently own a Sony DSC-W80 which takes pretty good pictures most of the time. I want something that has a better zoom and takes overall better photos. Like I said earlier, versatility is probably best as I will likely take mostly pictures of people, landscapes, animals, plants, and general scenery. Whatever I get, will likely be better than me until I figure it out.
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This is the camera that I am considering buying. I like the idea of 21X optical zoom.
Item #: N13-4840
COMPARE
Nikon Coolpix L120 26254 Digital Camera - 14 MegaPixels, 4x Digital Zoom, 21x Optical, 3" LCD, 102MB Internal, USB, Red
With the powerful, affordable Nikon COOLPIX L120 26254 Your images will zoom to the next level with its 21x optical Zoom-NIKKOR glass lens.
$279.99
In Stock
Manufacturer: Nikon
Avg. Rating: 5 stars
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/Category/guidedSearch.asp?CatId=7&sel=Mfr;Mfr_611
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What do you consider reasonably priced? Does it have to be an SLR? There are lots of compact cameras out there that take amazing photos. How much control over the exposure do you require, or are you going to just use the camera on auto all the time? There are lots and lots of really good cameras out there. The first step is to find out how much you want to spend.
+1 to that,
also are you wanting to get long distance shots as the $$$ is in the lenses
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I bought my wife the Nikon slr d3000. It takes amazing pictures and I highly recomend it. If she goes to wally world to print them they always ask her if they are professional hence copy writed. We had to get her name on a list that says she takes her own photos. I bought it at a camera store for the same price that Best Buy had it and got the pro's of tech support.
Our future daughter-in-law has one of the Nikon 3000's also and really loves it. She has used it to do several weddings and engagement photos. My uncle just bought a Canon (sorry, don't know the number) that is the equivalent to the above Nikon in function and price (between $400-600, ??). He loves his also.
Both BAC and Alf Sauve can probably give some of the best advice, as they are camera guys (apologies to any others I don't know).
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Quality is all about three things: sensor size, lens quality, and processing (electronic wizardry). No compact camera has the sensor size (and thus ultimately the image quality) of a Micro 4/3 camera, or APS-C or full frame DSLR.
Some good camera sites:
http://www.imaging-resource.com/
http://www.dpreview.com/
http://www.fredmiranda.com/
I was looking at cameras just last week for a friend going to Europe this summer, and liked these models (he bought a A55):
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/PanasonicDMCGH2/
http://www.dpreview.com/previews/samsungnx100/
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sonyslta55/ (and A33)
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/SonyNex5Nex3/ (biggest sensor for the camera size (APS-C sensor in a compact or 4/3 size body)
http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/EPL1/EPL1A.HTM
I would always take a second camera along: a slim shirt pocket compact for a backup. I have a Casio with a non-extending internal zoom lens that I bought for $100 for that purpose, but almost any of the slim compacts will take decent pictures, except in low light. A decent 5(+) megapixel cell phone camera may be good enough for a backup if you accept a fixed lens.
You might consider GPS/geo-tagging. It sounds frivolous until you use it, but knowing where your pictures were taken helps immensely when you build an album or book later. GPS sucks the batteries down fast, so buy, take and keep charged even more (branded) batteries than you would otherwise. I would have at least 3 batteries if this is a special trip that you definitely want to document and remember.
Also at least 3 memory cards; big, fast (class 10 is best) and name brand from a reputable store. There are many bogus counterfeit cards sold from the cheapest online stores and xBay, and they will fail and leave you with no pictures. Crucial and Kingston both sell direct and sometimes have great sale prices.
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BTW, if you do decide on a compact I have really liked my Canon PowerShot S5, and the newer similar Canon PowerShot SX30 IS gets great reviews too. http://www.dpreview.com/products/canon/compacts/canon_sx30is
I love the 'flippy screen' that swivels around and lets me see and take pictures while holding the camera above a crowd, around a corner, and of myself while seeing what is in the frame.
The best thing though has been the AA batteries. If you want to be green and use rechargeables you can, but when your rechargables run out in the middle of a museum or on a bus tour, or while walking around a city you then have the option of using plain old AA batteries that you can buy in every stop-and-rob corner store and tourist gift shop in the world.
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Thanks for the compliment, PegLeg, but I'm a hack. I do experiment, when I take pictures, with f-stop, lighting, and speed. What you may perceive as a good picture may have been just luck and you're only seeing 1 out of 50 I took.
My DIL-1 actually did all the research on DSLRs and found that on the high consumer end the Canon T1i (now the T2i) was a good value. We had a bias though towards Canon in that we already had SureShot 600s. It's a prosumer level. You can treat it as a point-n-shoot, or you can go full manual mode. (Or in-between) A lot of plastic. I'd make sure you take a regular lens (~18-55mm) and one telephoto (~55-250mm) and if you can afford it and don't mind more weight something up to the 400mm range as well. I think SD (SDHC) memory cards are the way to go. And don't scrimp on cards for the trip. Take lots of them. Then shoot lots of pictures. Where others shoot 10 shots, you shoot 100. Change aperture, white balance, shutter speed, w/ & w/o flash.
BTW, we still use our SureShot. If you're into programming at all, there's a hack of the Canon firmware, that let's you program the camera in BASIC. Other's have already written programs you can download to do 3D, stopaction, motion sensor and other functions. The nice thing is you can turn the hack off or on and it doesn't hurt you camera.
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An important question I forgot to ask earlier: What size are you planning on printing your photos? Big determining factor on the type of camera you should be looking at.
I will give some recommendations after you answer that important question.
Incidentally, I've worked in the photographic industry since about 1989, starting in retail and ending up as a manufacturer's rep. I can give you suggestions as to what to buy, but you need to go out and check out what works best for you. Try the functions, see if the menu makes sense to you. Go to a local camera store that has a good reputation with a list of cameras to see. Ask them lots of questions and when you've decided - buy the camera from them! This is no different than buying a gun. Those guys (the good ones) work really hard and know their stuff. I think everyone here can dig that. ;D
P.S. Buy it sooner than later, read the manual and MAKE SURE IT WORKS before you go. I can't tell you how many people I've dealt with that bought their cameras at the last minute and found out they didn't work while on vacation.
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On the other hand. For a high end PnS, that Nikon L120 has some chops. Granted the lens may have some short comings, but a 21x zoom in an inexpensive package!
If you go with the more expensive DSLR, this might be a great 2nd or backup camera.
Thanks, Scott for the suggestion.
Here's a better link to it.
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=7265654&srkey=N13-4840 (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=7265654&srkey=N13-4840)
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First off, thanks everybody for the info so far.
I'm kind of liking the more compact versions but am still very open to what y'all think would be best. I'm virtually clueless.
BAC, most of my pictures will probably never leave my computer, but, in the rare occasion that I decide to print one, it would likely be no larger than 8x10.
Unfortunately, there aren't many camera dealers around here, but I plan to try to find one to check out before I buy it.
P.S. Buy it sooner than later, read the manual and MAKE SURE IT WORKS before you go. I can't tell you how many people I've dealt with that bought their cameras at the last minute and found out they didn't work while on vacation.
That's kind of what I got to thinking. I originally planned to buy one over there and hope the exchange rate worked in my favor, but started to chicken out on that idea.
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That's kind of what I got to thinking. I originally planned to buy one over there and hope the exchange rate worked in my favor, but started to chicken out on that idea.
Really bad idea. Most companies won't honor the warranty for products for products purchased overseas. Plus, your charger (in most cases) won't work in the U.S. without having to purchase a converter or a new charger.
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Really bad idea. Most companies won't honor the warranty for products for products purchased overseas. Plus, your charger (in most cases) won't work in the U.S. without having to purchase a converter or a new charger.
Yeah, I know. That's one of the reasons I started to doubt the plan. That and the possibility it wouldn't be any cheaper. Plus, I wouldn't get any practice ahead of time.
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The guys suggesting superzoom cameras are really onto something. I would like to suggest you check out the Nikon P500. It has a 36x zoom, full manual controls, tilt-swivel high resolution screen, and dual processing for really fast opeeration. It looks like it uses the same backlit CMOS sensor as my S8100, which does really well in low light (all my NRA show pictures were shot with an S8100).
The lens is 22.5-810mm (35mm eq.), which is great, since it gives you really good wide angle along with great telephoto (wide angle is hard, telephoto is easy).
The MSRP is $399.95, comfortably in your price range and leaves you money for extra batteries (a must) and a lot of high speed, high quality SanDisk memory cards (don't leave home without them).
I'll try to do some more research and get back to you with more options after getting the daughter off to school.
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The Canon S30IX is another good option for a super zoom camera. Higher megapixel count means it's probably not as good in low light as the Nikon (more is not always better). A little more telephoto but less wide angle. MSRP is $429.99.
Another choice would be to go to a compact camera that has a larger sensor and higher image quality. You lose the zoom, but gain in control and image quality (especially in low light). They run in the $500 range, and all of them are really great performers. Nikon has the P7000, Canon's G12 and S95, Panasonic LX5 and Olympus X-Z1 should all be on your list if you''re looking for the ultimate quality in a compact package. They tend to be smaller than the superzooms.
Olympus, Panasonic, and Sony also sell compact cameras that have DSLR sensors and interchangeable lenses. The Olympus E-PL2, Panasonic GF2, and Sony NEX-5 are recommended and all withing your price range. They take excellent photos but have a steeper learning curve (especially the Sony) if you want to take them off auto. Also, if you want more zoom you have to buy additional lenses. They also tend to be less conspicuous than an SLR, but they give you the same image quality. Downside - they don't focus as fast as an SLR and there aren't as many lenses available for them yet.
On to SLRs. Canon, Nikon, and Sony have a lot to offer there. You really need to get to a camera shop for that one. They all operate so differently, but they all are capable of great results. Also keep in mind when traveling in a foreign country, big cameras make big targets for thieves.
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Whatever camera you choose,
(http://s7d5.scene7.com/is/image/Staples/s0398878_sc7?$sku$)
Yeah, it's only 8GB, but so what. The second you get within range of a wifi hot spot, or if your phone is wifi capable, the card automaticly uploads your pics to your favorite site! You can send them so a secure site, facebook, whatever.
COOL! ;D
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Whatever camera you choose,
(http://s7d5.scene7.com/is/image/Staples/s0398878_sc7?$sku$)
Yeah, it's only 8GB, but so what. The second you get within range of a wifi hot spot, or if your phone is wifi capable, the card automaticly uploads your pics to your favorite site! You can send them so a secure site, facebook, whatever.
COOL! ;D
Eye-fi cards are great...when they work. ;)
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With all the hotspots (around here anyway), I don't think we've ever gotten more than about 1.5GG on a card before getting back in range of something. Plus my wifes new phone is wifi, so it's all good now. :)
You can plug a USB hard drive into your home network and the card will have your pics home before you get there. CVS has a site it can link to as well. They'll have the prints ready when you get there.
I've been playing with a Kodak ZX5 lately, filming a good bit of underwater video. Filming video at 1080P will EAT UP some memory card space in a hurry!!! 8GB don't get you far. And the card has to be a kingston class 10 or its to slow and things get all choppy.
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..... and leaves you money for extra batteries (a must) and a lot of high speed, high quality SanDisk memory cards (don't leave home without them).
So many choices. Another great one by BAC.
And he brought up important points. I can't tell you how many times when I visited the Grand Canyon I heard other people saying how they were out of space on their cameras. Once in a life time and they didn't bring spare cards. And buying cards on the road is expensive.
Also, a spare battery. Though with the newer cameras the batteries do pretty good, especially when you don't use flash or preview the pictures for too long a time. I took a spare on out cruise last summer but never needed it. Of course, we spent a fair amount of time on board and could recharge a couple of times a day.
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You don't need a spare battery until you don't have one. ;D
I can't recommend SanDisk memory cards over all others highly enough. I've never had a SanDisk go bad. Plus, they are marketing geniuses! Do you know how many people think SD stands for SanDisk? BRILLIANT!
Don't skimp on accessories!
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+1 to that,
also are you wanting to get long distance shots as the $$$ is in the lenses
Not to mention when you get a couple lenses the weight really starts to add up when ya walking around. After you walk 5 k with Camera, 2 lenses, spare battery, flash etc the suckers get heavy!
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I have been using a Nikon D70 for a WHILE and really like it but found I didn't want it for everything. On vacation type trips I use it for most of the shooting at an atractoin. Last summer we went to Williamsburg and I used it exclusively at Colonial Williamburg, but not at Busch gardens or just wandering around town. For that I use a point and shoot Nikon (I forget the model). I also take the PnS with me on travell when I don't have a specific destination in mind, like when I go to LA for work. I just throw it in my pocket and go. I have been known to carry both with the PnS a backup in case the batteries crap out or I fill a card. I usually carry the D70 in a Maxpedition VersaPack. It holds both lenses, extra batteries/cards, and flash (along with other "essential devices": flashlight, multi-tool, pocket gun/ammo where legal) and isn't instantly recognizable as a camera bag. The one drawback is it doesn't havet hepadding of a dedicated bag. I also have a backpack i got MANY years ago in Oz that the bottom is a camera bag with padding that hold other "stuff."
The oldest is getting pretty good with a camera and spends more time with my D70 than I do now. I'm looking into getting a D3100 for Christmas and I'll give her the D70. The advantage that the Nikons have is lens compatibility. I can use teh D70 lens on the oldest's E and F series 35mm bodies and vice versa. You may loose auto-focus doing that but it's better than not getting the shot at all. Firend at work just picked up a D3000 at Best Buy as a kit for around $1000 that included a 28-55, 55-200 lenses, bag, card, and the insurance plan. the D3100 has a better processor and pixel rating but is about $2-300 more for the same package.
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I have been using a Nikon D70 for a WHILE and really like it but found I didn't want it for everything. On vacation type trips I use it for most of the shooting at an atractoin. Last summer we went to Williamsburg and I used it exclusively at Colonial Williamburg, but not at Busch gardens or just wandering around town. For that I use a point and shoot Nikon (I forget the model). I also take the PnS with me on travell when I don't have a specific destination in mind, like when I go to LA for work. I just throw it in my pocket and go. I have been known to carry both with the PnS a backup in case the batteries crap out or I fill a card. I usually carry the D70 in a Maxpedition VersaPack. It holds both lenses, extra batteries/cards, and flash (along with other "essential devices": flashlight, multi-tool, pocket gun/ammo where legal) and isn't instantly recognizable as a camera bag. The one drawback is it doesn't havet hepadding of a dedicated bag. I also have a backpack i got MANY years ago in Oz that the bottom is a camera bag with padding that hold other "stuff."
The oldest is getting pretty good with a camera and spends more time with my D70 than I do now. I'm looking into getting a D3100 for Christmas and I'll give her the D70. The advantage that the Nikons have is lens compatibility. I can use teh D70 lens on the oldest's E and F series 35mm bodies and vice versa. You may loose auto-focus doing that but it's better than not getting the shot at all. Firend at work just picked up a D3000 at Best Buy as a kit for around $1000 that included a 28-55, 55-200 lenses, bag, card, and the insurance plan. the D3100 has a better processor and pixel rating but is about $2-300 more for the same package.
Not quite true about the Nikon bodies and lenses. You not only lose AF with the older lenses on (some) low end bodies, but exposure control. Many of the new bodies don't have the mechanical connection to the lens for aperture control. Additionally, the oldest Nikon lenses should NEVER be mounted on modern bodies, as they will damage the camera. Since many of the new lens designs are completely electronic in their communication with the camera, and lack an aperture ring, they cannot be used on older camera bodies.
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Thanks so much for the info Scott, BAC, Alf and everybody else. I knew this would be a good place to ask. Where else on the internet can you get such a wide diversity of useful knowledge?
Thanks especially to setting me straight on what's likely best for what I need with my skill set.
I really wish I had a good place to check out a variety of different cameras, especially some of the ones Scott suggested. On that note, I'm probably going to lean towards the Nikon P500 as it may be the only one I can get my hands on in person without driving 2ish hours. The price is really nice too. I'll probably go fondle it a few times and think about it for a few days before I fully commit.
Thanks again!
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Where is a good place to buy besides a camera shop?
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Where is a good place to buy besides a camera shop?
Best Buy can be a good place if you've done your homework. But don't expect to get the service or expertise you'd get at a camera shop. I've heard many Best Buy employees tell customers things that were flat out wrong just to get them to buy their (the employee's) favorite camera, which wasn't what was best for the customer.
In Michigan, if you're close to Traverse City, Muskegon, Grand Rapids, or Lansing, I'd highly recommend paying a visit to The Camera Shops or Marks Photo. I know all those guys very well, and they really value customer service.
P.S. If you decide to purchase at Best Buy, make sure you check their online price first. They often have a higher price in store, but they will honor the online price. Weird, but true.
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Thanks so much for the info Scott, BAC, Alf and everybody else. I knew this would be a good place to ask. Where else on the internet can you get such a wide diversity of useful knowledge?
Thanks especially to setting me straight on what's likely best for what I need with my skill set.
I really wish I had a good place to check out a variety of different cameras, especially some of the ones Scott suggested. On that note, I'm probably going to lean towards the Nikon P500 as it may be the only one I can get my hands on in person without driving 2ish hours. The price is really nice too. I'll probably go fondle it a few times and think about it for a few days before I fully commit.
Thanks again!
Good choice on the P500. Up until a year or so ago, I never would have recommended a Nikon compact camera. Quite frankly, they were crap. But they sold like hotcakes because of the Nikon name and Ashton Kutcher. Over the past year or two, though, they've really put out some impressive small cameras (like the S8100 and P500).
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Best Buy can be a good place if you've done your homework.
I be wary of Best Buy only because of their return/warranty policy.
There are a number of on-line retailer that you can find a sale, or package, price most any week. Even a pro-A/V place like B&H photo has good deals sometimes.
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I be wary of Best Buy only because of their return/warranty policy.
There are a number of on-line retailer that you can find a sale, or package, price most any week. Even a pro-A/V place like B&H photo has good deals sometimes.
Which is why I suggested doing your homework first. Everything Best Buy sells is warrantied by the manufacturer. B&H and Adorama can be great places to get good deals (or to just visit), but be wary of what you buy. Lots of what they sell does not have a manufacturer's warranty. Which leads me back to my point about (when possible) buying from a local camera shop. If we don't they will disappear.
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Which is why I suggested doing your homework first. Everything Best Buy sells is warrantied by the manufacturer. B&H and Adorama can be great places to get good deals (or to just visit), but be wary of what you buy. Lots of what they sell does not have a manufacturer's warranty. Which leads me back to my point about (when possible) buying from a local camera shop. If we don't they will disappear.
Amen!
No longer a camera guy, once upon a time I was.....
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Let me give an extra amen to this. One of the most embarrasing moments of my life was when I brought a friend to a local fly shop. I bought my rigs from them. It was a bit pricier than from a big box, but I was paying for the CS, the fishing advice, the free casting lessons, and the"here's the fly that's working on this river today" type info. Then there was the the atmosphere; a fly shop with a coffee pot going, a geriatric bird dog, a full time fly tier working in the back, and a lot of fishermen hanging out and telling lies,. It was more than a fair trade. My friend had bought his gear from Cabela's (same stuff they were selling) and saved about fifty bucks over the Austin Angler's prices. He needed it put toghther. They did it for $5. I was cringing the whole time. If everyone bought mail order, that shop would be gone. The expertise and CS would go out the window. It was a credit to those guys they didn't bum rush him out the door.
The thing is that if you buy local, the exra few bucks you pay (assuming a good shop) are money well spent. I learned that lesson from my Great Granddad and I still buy my suits and dress shoes from a local shop thats been there since 1919. (J.C. Harris on Clematis Street in WPB, Fl., and there is still a Mr. Harris behind the counter). Yeah, I could save money shopping at the mall, or online, but what do I lose by doing so? Dedicated specialty shops are a treasure, and you need to factor in the knowledge and help you get versus the money you "save" by ordering online or going with a big box store. Just my .02. :-\
FQ13
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So do you believe in everything you are told at the fishing shop? How about the local Mom and Pop gun shop?
Case in point. On another forum, a question was raised about whether .308 and 7.62x51 NATO are the same round, By the time I saw the thread, there were a few responses, including one from one of the mods. She went off about how there was a huge difference, higher pressures in the .308, and the .308 was 1/10" longer than the 7.62. Whaaaa? I responded that they were generally considered similar, and that what the mod described was true for .223 and 5.56, and then went on to quote from the Hogdon reloading site. Well, we went around with others chiming in, so I advised the guy to find a local reloader and get their help, and not to believe anything they read on the internet. I then quoted from the Barnes specs (and Wiki!!!!) as to what the case length spec for the .308 and 7.62 were, and how there was no more than 1/100" variance allowed.
To which the mod replied - OK, I don't reload but I work at a gun shop and this is what I was told. ::) ??? ::) ::)
Immortal words! ;D