The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Politics & RKBA => Topic started by: Marshal Halloway on March 14, 2008, 10:54:42 AM
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Freedom under fire
The conviction of a Wisconsin gun owner is stirring up gun advocates. CNN's Bill Tucker explains
VIDEO LINK (http://www.cnn.com/video/?/video/bestoftv/2008/03/13/ldt.tucker.govt.guns.cnn)
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This is sick. What is wrong with the government? and the judicial system? This is a clear miscarriage of justice.
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I had heard of this story several months ago (on that forum I sent to you Marshal) but there were conflicting reports at the time (some said it was an armory gun he loaned).
I am glad that all of the facts have come to light and that Lou Dobbs is pursuing it.
The BATFE is completely out of control and should be shut down NOW!
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I think I'm in lover with Lou! Don't watch much tv, this guy is great!
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I think I'm in lover with Lou! Don't watch much tv, this guy is great!
He's real tough on illegal immigration, too.
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I have been following this one for at least a year, same as I have Red's Trading Post, Cavalry Arms, and some others. Even up to the time that it went to trial, they were offering to Olofson's lawyer that if he would just sing a song on a bunch of his friends or people he may or may not know, they would drop the whole thing.
-Bidah
edit: Maybe they will talk about it tonight, but one of the things in the transcripts that was brought up. A Federal Agent for the ATF was asked if you had a double barrel shotgun, that malfunctions and shoots both barrels at the same time, is that a Machine Gun. The answer was "yes". Also, they were only able to get the rifle to do the double again, if they used soft primered commercial ammo, which we know is now what you use in a rifle with a floating firing pin.
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I have been following this one for at least a year, same as I have Red's Trading Post, Cavalry Arms, and some others. Even up to the time that it went to trial, they were offering to Olofson's lawyer that if he would just sing a song on a bunch of his friends or people he may or may not know, they would drop the whole thing.
-Bidah
Thats the same kind of tactics that led to the seige at Ruby Ridge.
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Thats the same kind of tactics that led to the seige at Ruby Ridge.
Ruby Ridge was mostly FBI. Waco was ATF, you know when they went in with stock trailers full of body armored auto weapon equipped troops to serve a knock and serve warrant. That's why they brought the assault ladders and tried to break in through upper story windows.
Oh yeah, the warrant? It was for drugs, which last time I checked is not within the ATF's jurisdiction.
edit: Oh yeah, the agent in charge just kinda disappeared, no idea where she ended up. She was the one joking as she opened up packages of VHS video tapes to record their "successful" assault - er, warrant serving. And just how successful was it? Well the ATF had its ass handed to it, ran out of ammo (killing caged dogs in part) and had to negotiate a safe departure as most of its people were pinned down. Left with their tail between their legs.
Maybe their ego was tweaked, and this may be the reason they are such assholes to the rest of us.
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You have got to be kidding me! Is DOJ and ATF so bored they have to create felonies to charge law-abiding gun owners with?
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You have got to be kidding me! Is DOJ and ATF so bored they have to create felonies to charge law-abiding gun owners with?
Not bored. Just actively and aggressively defending what? Our shores? Nope. Our liberties? Nope. Our freedoms? Nope.
They are defending something much more vital - their budgets and (to quote Mel Brooks) their phony baloney jobs.
The so-called justice system is not, it is a legal system, which is why so many are jumping into being lawyers. Everyone is out to help each other, and we, folks, are the bait, the meat for their grinders. Justice and propriety do not matter anymore, getting ahead in the legal system does matter, and we do not matter except as victims to be processed through the system.
I'm beginning to think a lot of the crap we hear about - equal rights for this absurd group or another, are simply distractions and smokescreens from the reality - the economic enslavement of the American people with the legal system being perverted to support it - LEOs included.
Like Bennie said, it is much better to be Imhotep's slave (and alive) than to be his victim, no?
This is what the greatest country in the world is being reduced to - willing slaves to economic powers.
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Is this a practice run to try and keep their jobs with the possible new bosses picked in November?
If so ... vote early vote often.
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Ruby Ridge was mostly FBI. Waco was ATF, you know when they went in with stock trailers full of body armored auto weapon equipped troops to serve a knock and serve warrant. That's why they brought the assault ladders and tried to break in through upper story windows.
Oh yeah, the warrant? It was for drugs, which last time I checked is not within the ATF's jurisdiction.
edit: Oh yeah, the agent in charge just kinda disappeared, no idea where she ended up. She was the one joking as she opened up packages of VHS video tapes to record their "successful" assault - er, warrant serving. And just how successful was it? Well the ATF had its ass handed to it, ran out of ammo (killing caged dogs in part) and had to negotiate a safe departure as most of its people were pinned down. Left with their tail between their legs.
Maybe their ego was tweaked, and this may be the reason they are such assholes to the rest of us.
The best part was that all but one of the ATF agents shot were hit with ATF proprietary ammo. Same thing at Ruby ridge, The US Marshal who was killed was shot in the back by his partner.
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This is so bad I dont have words. And how many years did he serve? Sometimes Im glad im gettin old , cause I could have clarity in a situation like this .
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So, what happens if my sear breaks when I'm at the range or hunting coyotes and a game warden is around? Where was the ATF when a car went off a bridge driven by an alcoholic Senator? Shoudn't his car collection be consfisicated under the same reasoning?
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So, what happens if my sear breaks when I'm at the range or hunting coyotes and a game warden is around? Where was the ATF when a car went off a bridge driven by an alcoholic Senator? Shoudn't his car collection be consfisicated under the same reasoning?
oh yeah... it should be... and if it was you or me.. it would have been... but since it is a man of the cloth (government) unfortunately... we all know the answer to that!~~~ ::)
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oh yeah... it should be... and if it was you or me.. it would have been... but since it is a man of the cloth (government) unfortunately... we all know the answer to that!~~~ ::)
Senatorial Privalege, The laws don't apply if your "special", same reason that disbarred lawyer (The one who's wife is running for president) does not have to register like the rest of the countries sex offenders.
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One day a florist goes to a barber for a haircut. After the cut he asked about his bill and the barber replies, 'I cannot accept money from you. I'm doing community service this week.' The florist was pleased and left the shop.
When the barber goes to open his shop the next morning there is a 'thank you' card and a dozen roses waiting for him at his door.
Later, a cop comes in for a haircut, and when he tries to pay his bill, the barber again replies, 'I cannot accept money from you. I'm doing community service this week.' The cop is happy and leaves the shop.
The next morning when the barber goes to open up there is a 'thank you' card and a dozen donuts waiting for him at his door.
Later that day, a college professor comes in for a haircut, and when he tries to pay his bill, the barber again replies, 'I cannot accept money from you. I'm doing community service this week.' The professor is very happy and leaves the shop.
The next morning when the barber opens his shop, there is a 'thank you' card and a dozen different books, such as 'How to Improve Your Business' and 'Becoming More Successful.
Then, a Congressman comes in for a haircut, and when he goes to pay his bill the barber again replies, 'I cannot accept money from you. I'm doing community service this week.' The Congressman is very happy and leaves the shop.
The next morning when the barber goes to open up, there are a dozen Congressmen lined up waiting for a free haircut.
And that, my friends, illustrates the fundamental difference between the citizens of our country and the members of our Congress.—
Vote carefully this year.
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I would like to identify my self on forums so if this kind of crap happened to me I would have a record of my posts , but more so my fellow members would know what happened, and be able to make a more informed opinion of what transpired. Unfortunately this cannot be so. I would like to think somehow we would know when our brothers and sisters are in trouble. Sucks big time, .
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He was posting on highroad.com
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Here is part 2 of Lou Dobbs coverage:
The right to bear arms 4:24
Some say a Wisconsin gun owner's conviction threatens their right to bear arms. CNN's Bill Tucker reports.
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/politics/2008/03/14/tucker.government.guns.part.2.cnn
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Marshal, Thanks for posting part two. Lou says he is going to pursue this with the NRA (where were they in this case) and The WI senators. Please keep us informed and if you can, continue to post the relevant CNN videos.
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There is something else here that bothers me besides the heavy handedness of the ATF. The report says this was a jury trial. Is it a simple majority that leads to a guilty verdict in cases like this? Surely they couldn't have found twelve people that dimwitted and easily swayed by the prosecution's apparently baseless case. P.T. Barnum was right and it looks like they manged to roundup a dozen of them for this jury.
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I'd like to know why the defense didn't explain how the MALFUNCTION occured and the known problems with Oly ARs? Even the PT Barnum crowd in the jury box should have understood even a mildly dumbed down explination.
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Wisconsin is 1 of 2 states, the other being Illinois that are very gun unfriendly states, in fact the right to carry can be denied. My guess is he is meant to be some kind of object lesson to gun-owners by the politician's there. It also makes it look like they're being tough on crime, since it's much easier to go after lawful gun-owner than the real bad-guys. My guess is this wouldn't have even gone to trial in my home state (Texas). A really good web-site for anyone interested in how different states view our 2nd amendment Rights is http://www.moccw.org/map.html
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I'd like to know why the defense didn't explain how the MALFUNCTION occured and the known problems with Oly ARs? Even the PT Barnum crowd in the jury box should have understood even a mildly dumbed down explination.
I thought it said in the 2nd report that an expert did bring that to light.
I think that the jury selection process was run in such a way that anyone with firearms knowledge was removed. NOTE: I do not know that for sure it is just my speculation based on the facts of the case. How could a reasonable person with firearms knowldge have convicted?
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Another comment:
This may not sit well with some but..The expert that the defense brought in (Lou Savage Historic Arms) has long hair and a beard. He is just one of those guys that will look 'mafia' or 'radical' even in a suit (my opinion). I will bet big money that the Fed was clean cut and 'normal' (or all American) looking.
I know that such things should not matter but they all too often do (look at the political races, the good looking one usually wins).
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When OJ got off (whether you agree or not) I tried to explain a basic fact to many: I have sat three times on a jury (one sexual abuse and two DUI's), and it is not as black and white in person as it appears. It is well choreographed by the attorneys, and the judge is full of all kinds of rules concerning what you and and can not consider. There are also items that take place, and the press lets us all know about, but the jury is not even in the room when these things are being discussed. And then there is the entire process that takes place in the jury room and the melding of everyone's view of what was presented. I don't care how much media you follow, or if you go to court and watch, you don't know what it is like till you get one of them box seats and get to go to the special room to make your decision.
Just like voting, this is a privilege to participate in. However, it is hardly a walk in the park or just a day off work.
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Thanks for posting that Marshall. I assume you will keep up with it from this point on and post it accordingly. Thought so! You Da Man.
Where's that beer I ordered? I waited all weekend for you and Michael to call. :(
I even worked out in preparation for your promise of an ass whuppin. Now I can hardly walk and hurt all over. Thanks a lot! :P
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Here are some more reference links:
http://blogsearch.google.com/blogsearch?hl=en&q=David+Olofson&btnG=Search+Blogs
http://www.google.com/search?q=H.R.1791&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a
http://blogsearch.google.com/blogsearch?hl=en&q=H.R.1791&btnG=Search+Blogs
I even worked out in preparation for your promise of an ass whuppin. Now I can hardly walk and hurt all over. Thanks a lot! :P
Well, Marshal'ette told me that I was so out of shape that I couldn't whip myself out of a wet paper bag, so I jumped in and worked out all weekend too.. and by the time I was ready to come and lay it on you.. I was so sore and tired I couldn't get in the truck.
So lets call a truce..
I'll just bring a cooler of beer, you bring the chips and salsa, we both bring our guns, ammo, targets.
I'll leave Marshal'ette at home and we'll just have a hell of a good time.
Sound good to you?
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I'd like to know why the defense didn't explain how the MALFUNCTION occured and the known problems with Oly ARs? Even the PT Barnum crowd in the jury box should have understood even a mildly dumbed down explination.
Actually, the way the laws are jerry-rigged these days, as someone once said, a good prosecutor can indict a ham sandwich. The reality is, that if a technical infraction of the law has occurred, it is pretty black and white, and an anti-gun judge can pretty much send the case where he/she wants it.
Besides, the American people have a tendency, much exploited these days by the various levels of gummint, to blindly obey the law, and believe the "law" protectors, that they will not apply any reasoning to the case, such as, "Should this case even have been brought to trial?".
Study up on the concept of jury nullification, and learn it!
It may come in handy some day. Judges hate anyone who knows of it, as it prevents them from controlling the process. There was even a study here in ND that "proved" there is no legal basis or right to nullification. No, no basis or right, only about 700 years of common law. But the legal (not justice) system does not want us amateurs meddling in their power base.
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I'll just bring a cooler of beer, you bring the chips and salsa, we both bring our guns, ammo, targets.
I'll leave Marshal'ette at home and we'll just have a hell of a good time.
Sound good to you?
(http://www.cascity.com/howard/animations/mad.gif)
That idea stinks!
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Actually, the way the laws are jerry-rigged these days, as someone once said, a good prosecutor can indict a ham sandwich. The reality is, that if a technical infraction of the law has occurred, it is pretty black and white, and an anti-gun judge can pretty much send the case where he/she wants it.
Besides, the American people have a tendency, much exploited these days by the various levels of gummint, to blindly obey the law, and believe the "law" protectors, that they will not apply any reasoning to the case, such as, "Should this case even have been brought to trial?".
Study up on the concept of jury nullification, and learn it!
It may come in handy some day. Judges hate anyone who knows of it, as it prevents them from controlling the process. There was even a study here in ND that "proved" there is no legal basis or right to nullification. No, no basis or right, only about 700 years of common law. But the legal (not justice) system does not want us amateurs meddling in their power base.
Here's a good link on what a jury can do.
http://www.fija.org/
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Well Marshall, now you went and dunnit! Ya got the misses pissed. Woa be unto you my man. No wrath like the scorn of a woman. Or something like that. ??? Especially if you live with her....DOOOOOOP! :-X
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(http://www.gangsterbb.net/emoticons/doh.gif)
I never learn.........