The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Tactical Rifle & Carbine => Topic started by: Badgersmilk on June 07, 2011, 10:20:19 AM
-
This is going to be kinda long once I get the pictures downloaded and what not. So here's the short of it.
Peg, DON'T BUY THE SCOPE!!!
Quaker, It's QUITE!!! Take any hard cover book you've got. Lift one end off a table 2-3" with your finger and let it fall. That's the noise this gun makes! :D There is NO "twiiinng" or "twaaang" noise like a normal spring gun makes AT ALL! Even if you were standing 5' from the shooter. You'd NEVER identify the noise as a gun of any kind. NO WAY! The 100 shot break in is no joke. It does make a little "twang" for about the first 80-120 shots. After that... AWSUME! :D
More to follow... I'm pi$$ed, but NOT surprised at what happened. >:( Need to get a beer and cool down. It's 94 deg out there!!!
-
Alright. Had time to cool off, and not as frustrated as much as wondering what to do next now. :-\
Took everything out to the range this morning for a little shake down.
(http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww40/BigCheeseStick/range2.jpg)
(http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww40/BigCheeseStick/range3.jpg)
Already it's a bad day. A hundred + acres next to where I hunt / shoot / camp is now being destroyed because of urban sprawl. >:( There are a dozen subdivisions already in this area that have literally hundreds of empty houses and lots sitting around unsold. YET, they're destroying woods and lakes to build MORE subdivisions right next to them! >:( >:( >:(
I fired the first 30 rounds into brush just to listen to the rifle, get a feel for it, and begin the break in process. All's fine, so I fired my first shot at the target I placed 36 yards away. About a FOOT low, real close left to right. I gave the turret two full turns toward up, and "DING" hit about 2" high, half inch left. NICE! ;) Good start.
So I proceed to dial things in a little at a time on the big target, them move to the middle one, and on to punch one into the small target. SWEET! This things doing fine. And I've yet to even really try!
(http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww40/BigCheeseStick/range4.jpg)
All is good. I'm at about 100 rounds through the gun. It just hit the small target bulls eye with little effort. Time to get serious!
The objective came set at 100 yards from the factory, so I adjust it for the first time down to just under the 50 yard mark. The clearity of the scope is absolutely amazing! Side by side it's far better than my Leupolds! The cross hairs are perfect thickness, mil-dots are well sized. NICE!!! :)
For the first time I get ready to take a serious shot. I nestle the rifle down into the sand bag. Adjust and memorize position of each hand on the rifle, cheek weld, adjust my breathing to slow my heart rate, focus my mind, and start taking up slack on the two stage trigger. The perfect moment comes, the trigger breaks, and... Bzzzzzzzzz. I HEAR THE PELLET ZIP THROUGH THE WEEDS!!! WTF??? :o :(
You may or may not know how disheartening that is. It doesn't happen. IT JUST DOESN'T!!! :-[
So I try again. Same drill. SUPER CAREFULL....... SAME RESULT!!!!! >:(
To make a long (VERY AGRIVATEING) story short. I spent the next 56 rounds finding out that the left / right adjustment on the scope does NOTHING. The up / down adjustment has absolutely random results that throw shots anywhere from three inches off one direction, to 8 inches the other way with a SINGLE CLICK! >:( Moving the adjustable objective will throw shots off in ANY direction as much as a FOOT at 36 yards!!!!
POS Chinese scope!!!
The rifle was excellent. Smooth, solid feel / operation. VERY, VERY QUITE! At about the 120 round on up it really settled in and now makes NO spring noise at all. Just a VERY faint little "thump". I LOVE THE RIFLE! The scope though...
ONLY flaw out of the rifle is after I got back and cleaned everything up really well I noticed a very small area where the matt black paint on the barrel shroud flaked off. It's obviously from the torque / stress in the metal of where the back end of the shroud screwed onto the barrel.
(http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww40/BigCheeseStick/P1020157.jpg?t=1307465248)
No biggy. I've got paint to touch it up with. ;)
The trigger isn't great, but acceptable. Lots of creep. Recoil is more than I expected. More than a rimfire .22, but nothing of ANY concern. Because the scope I didn't want to risk trashing the chrony, so it stayed in the car. Sorry, no fps reports as yet.
But now I gotta figure out what to do for some sights! The rifle shoots to well IMO to put the Eotech on it. And EVERYBODY will tell you it takes a goooood scope to live long on a springer gun... Sooo. ???
-
Thanks, BM.....
I was just wondering if this was a consistent problem with the brand of scope. I only know of two folks who have dealt with them and one loves his (it's on a .270 bolt action deer rifle) and the other had the exact same problem as you describe. He took his back to wally and they gave him another and he said it worked fine.....so it sounds like a 'crap-shoot' when you buy one.
I think I'll pass.
Thanks again and hey, nice rifle.
-
Thanks for the RR BM. I am darn jealous. The noise factor, or lack thereof sounds like just what I need. Sadly, my disposable income has done been disposed of with the new 'puter. ;D As far as accuracy, if you are hitting that small target at 50 yards, I think that Toonces is going to be having a hard time. As far as a scope, I have a Bushnell Sportview on my RWS and it works great. I bought the thing back in college so I doubt it was expensive and its been going for the better part of 20 years. I have a one piece RWS mount that looks a lot like the one that came with yours. I don't know what the equivalent model would be, but I'd take a look. I've also heard a couple of good things about Cabelas house brand scopes, but that's all second hand. Caveat Emptor there However, I did a little research on your gun, and you might be able to skate with a cheaper piece of glass. One of the reasons that traditional spring pistons need purpose built scopes is the nature of the recoil. Its backwards AND forwards and also there is some sideways action due to spring torque. Most scopes are just braced for backwards recoil and so the forward recoil is the problem. However the nitro piston is supposed to do away with a lot of this, which is what gives you lighter recoil and less racket. Take this with a a grain of salt, but I think you have more options scope wise on your gun than you would have had with a traditional model. Good luck!
FQ13
-
Thanks for the RR BM.
Cool rifle. 8)
-
Very Cool Badger. I might just have to give one a try. I was tempted to get a gas piston years ago, but opted a higher quality springer than I could have afforded in gas.
Too bad about the scope.
All Leupold's are springer rated, as are Bushnell 3200s, 4200s and Legends (can't speak for the rest of their line). Best places for advice are Straight Shooters and Pyramid Air.
And while people laugh at my 15x scope on my .22, it's great being able to choose between left ventricle or right on a mouse sized target at 20yds. (The tally this spring - since May first - is 20 brown rats and 4 Starlings.)
-
(The tally this spring - since May first - is 20 brown rats and 4 Starlings.)
None named Clarice, I hope. :P ;D ;D ;D
-
Been researching and thinking about what to do with this all day. :(
I KNOW I'm gonna catch flack for this from everybody on the planet. BUT, I've got a Burris, three Leupolds, three Bushnell's (one 3200 elite), and half a dozen other scopes on various rifles, shotguns, and pistols. Nobody's gonna believe this in a million years. But the more I think about it, hands down the best scope I own. And I mean in EVERY aspect except prettiness is... Are you ready?
A Simmons Aetec!
It's been mounted on my AR10 for a while now, suffered all kinds of bumps, thumps, playing with, no telling how many rounds of hot loaded .308 Win. recoil. And it's still the clearest, brightest, and has better field of view of all the scopes I've ever looked through. Turned down to 2.8 power things are in focus at ANY range. No matter how close, out to infinity.
Another Simmons I've got mounted on a Benelli 12ga. Magnum is just as good. It takes the recoil of that monster shooting 3.5" high velocity #5 shot MUCH better than I do! ;)
So either the Remington's getting an "Aetec", or a ".44 Mag" put on it. Just gotta make up my mind and put something on order. When I get it out to the range I'll let you guys know how it goes. "Remington NPSS Range Report Part 2"! ;)
Now I get to go sit in jury duty the rest of this week. ::)
-
Hey no need to apologize for the Simmons. Sometimes cheaper stuff just works well. Ask anyone who bought a Hyundai fifteen years ago when they were cheaper than dirt or anyone with a Bass Pro house brand rod. I looked at an Aetec for my .270 but went with the Bushnell (then B@L) elite. Still, it didn't suck. Sorry about jury duty. Hope you have the same "phone reserve system" we have here in Palm Beach County, as you don't have to actually go to the court house till they need you, just be available. You still miss work, but better hanging out on the couch than in the courthouse any day of the week. Keep us posted on that rifle. I am curious as to down range FPS and groupings. Plus purely fictitious field reports could be amusing. ;)
FQ13
-
Spring piston guns wreck rifle scopes. The mechanical forces are in the wrong directions for the design.
You need a dedicated "air gun" scope.
-
I forgot about my Simmons. It's on my Beeman R-7. They don't make this model anymore. The Pro-Air. Had to have a dealer special order it for me. The R-7 will do 1MOA out to 15yds with that scope. I bet their higher end is rated for airguns. I most cases all you have to do is drop the manufacturer an email.
-
Jury duty left out after 45 minutes! They did roll call, the judge walked in and said. "no cases today... See you tommarow." SWEET!
So after hours and hours and hours of research. With Tom's advice nagging at me in the back of my head. ;) I called Simmons Customers Service to start asking questions. Guess what. It's Bushnell.
They were GREAT! Actually DIDN'T steer me toward the most expensive thing they've got! And even recommended a competitors products as well! (HAWKE)
Durring the conversation I learned the 3200 series is now referred to as their "Tactical" series. And while they've got a list of "airgun rated products". For "beat it with a stick" durrability, he specifically recommended the 10x40 fixed power I happen to already have one of on my .308 bolt gun (I'd rate it a 7 out of 10 scope). And their model 734124M. He pointed out that the 734124M is particularly durrable with the way it's constructed.
Is anything ever easy though? :( As soon as I'm off the phone I go looking for the best deal I can get on the 734124M, and find THAT PUPPYS HARD TO COME BY! Opticsplanet (who I don't like, but usually has fair prices and product reviews) lists the thing as discontinued!
Having looked over the HAWKE brand products, I'm sorry, but WOW do they look cheaply made. :-\
Think I'm gonna keep digging around for a 734124M. :-\
-
OH, Quaker,
Learned that the "higher end" Cabella's scopes are actually manufactured by Bushnell as well. Low end stuff can be BSA, or about anybody.
And the Bushnell you've got actually is "airgun rated". But long out of production.
-
Jury duty left out after 45 minutes! They did roll call, the judge walked in and said. "no cases today... See you tommarow." SWEET!
So after hours and hours and hours of research. With Tom's advice nagging at me in the back of my head. ;) I called Simmons Customers Service to start asking questions. Guess what. It's Bushnell.
They were GREAT! Actually DIDN'T steer me toward the most expensive thing they've got! And even recommended a competitors products as well! (HAWKE)
Durring the conversation I learned the 3200 series is now referred to as their "Tactical" series. And while they've got a list of "airgun rated products". For "beat it with a stick" durrability, he specifically recommended the 10x40 fixed power I happen to already have one of on my .308 bolt gun (I'd rate it a 7 out of 10 scope). And their model 734124M. He pointed out that the 734124M is particularly durrable with the way it's constructed.
Is anything ever easy though? :( As soon as I'm off the phone I go looking for the best deal I can get on the 734124M, and find THAT PUPPYS HARD TO COME BY! Opticsplanet (who I don't like, but usually has fair prices and product reviews) lists the thing as discontinued!
Having looked over the HAWKE brand products, I'm sorry, but WOW do they look cheaply made. :-\
Think I'm gonna keep digging around for a 734124M. :-\
Try ebay. There was a guy who ran an E-store that hal a bunch of B@L Elites 3000 and 4000. These are the same as Bushnell 3200/4200. They are an amazing scope as far light gathering goes. Still, I think you really don't need to drop $300 plus on an airgun scope. Look at BSA, and RWS scopes go for a little over $100. Check them out at Airgun Depot.
FQ13
-
Spring piston guns wreck rifle scopes. The mechanical forces are in the wrong directions for the design.
You need a dedicated "air gun" scope.
+1 Call and ask the air gun manufacturer if you doubt this.
-
BM, here's a scope reccomendation from pyramid air. I was talking to a rep about a pistol and mentioned your needs. This was what he put forward, and it looks worth while. If its as good as mine, you are getting a good scope at a fair price. Its a Bushnell Trophy 4x12 for $169. As I said, my Bushnell and B@Ls have served me well. They ain't Zeiss, but I have had no cause for complaint. Even if the money fairy came, I wouldn't replace them because there is no reason to. FWIW.
FQ13
-
Good to hear what Pyramid told you Quaker. The Bushnell 734124M that the Bushnell's Service Department recommended is exactly what Pyramid recommended to! :)
(http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0PDoS7s0O9NfR0AWGSjzbkF/SIG=12vngcp5q/EXP=1307591020/**http%3a//images2.opticsplanet.com/640-640/opplanet-bushnell-trophy-734124.jpg)
As I understand it the 734124M is rated for Bi-directional spring rifle recoil and for "Military use". I like it because all that, but also it has a very short eye relief, is 100% waterproof (unlike some HAWKE models), I guess the crosshairs are etched onto a lens rather than being actual wires glued in place, and to be perfectly honest... It just looks pretty nice to! ;D
Found a site selling it for $133.00 and ordered it, but haven't got confirmation they've actually got it in stock yet... Fingers crossed!
Money I REALLY DIDN'T want to spend. >:( But should be better off for having done it.
-
Fail. The place I ordered from can't get it. ::) The search goes on...
-
Fail. The place I ordered from can't get it. ::) The search goes on...
Just get it from Pyramid, it comes with free flop up covers, and its a good time to order stuff like pel gun oil and cleaning pellets with the same shipping. I actually still have a window open from when I talked to them earlier.
FQ13
http://www.pyramydair.com/cgi-bin/search.pl?cx=002970863286801882398%3Ajlcminxfwdw&cof=FORID%3A11%3BNB%3A1&q=bn-5064&sa=Search&search_for=bn-5064&cmd_search=Search
-
WHAT A NIGHTMARE THIS TURNED OUT TO BE! :o
I was looking for the old model because the tech guy at Bushnell told me to look for that one. I called him back and he told me the NEW part number. Which is like I'd thought, the same scope Pyramid told you (Quaker) to buy. I also finally heard back from two UK airgun forums on what they recommended... SAME THING!!! About 10 people have all confirmed this thing IS made specifically to handle airguns, and will be the last scope I'll ever need to put on this rifle! WHOO HOO! THE SEARCH IS OVER!
Wanna wait till my bank clears the refund from the first place I ordered from, then I'm ordering the Bushnell 734120 first thing!
By the time I get this all ready "Toonces" may already have died from old age! If not I'M MAKING A SCOPE COVER OUT OF HIS FUZZY HYDE!!!
(http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A2KJke5aHPBNjnUAFpKjzbkF/SIG=13erftrrs/EXP=1307610330/**http%3a//images1.opticsplanet.com/640-640/opplanet-bushnell-734120-trophy-xlt-riflescope.jpg)
SOON, my furry little friend, SOON.
-
By the time I get this all ready "Toonces" may already have died from old age! If not I'M MAKING A SCOPE COVER OUT OF HIS FUZZY HYDE!!!
(http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A2KJke5aHPBNjnUAFpKjzbkF/SIG=13erftrrs/EXP=1307610330/**http%3a//images1.opticsplanet.com/640-640/opplanet-bushnell-734120-trophy-xlt-riflescope.jpg)
SOON, my furry little friend, SOON.
You really need to add a "Bwahahahaha!" to that BM, because what fun is a threat like that without the Evil Overlord manical laugh? Get your money's worth man! ;D ;D ;D
FQ13
-
;)
http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/457202934/New_Fashion_Cat_fur_vest.html (http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/457202934/New_Fashion_Cat_fur_vest.html)
Did you just hear a book drop?!? ;D
-
;)
http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/457202934/New_Fashion_Cat_fur_vest.html (http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/457202934/New_Fashion_Cat_fur_vest.html)
Did you just hear a book drop?!? ;D
I'l come out with an iguana hide collar and we'll be richer than Jeb Clampett!
FQ13
-
;)
http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/457202934/New_Fashion_Cat_fur_vest.html (http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/457202934/New_Fashion_Cat_fur_vest.html)
Did you just hear a book drop?!? ;D
It's about time someone finally found a good use for cats. ;D
-
Found a $30 dollar rebate for anyone else interested! ;D ;D ;D
http://media.midwayusa.com/pdf/Coupons/busnell-trophy-xlt.pdf (http://media.midwayusa.com/pdf/Coupons/busnell-trophy-xlt.pdf)
Also, the lowest price I can find, with free shipping. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/662378-REG/Bushnell_734120_Trophy_XLT_4_12x40_Riflescope.html (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/662378-REG/Bushnell_734120_Trophy_XLT_4_12x40_Riflescope.html)
Saving $40 bucks on this is equivlent to THOUSANDS of rounds of ammo! ;)
-
Found a $30 dollar rebate for anyone else interested! ;D ;D ;D
http://media.midwayusa.com/pdf/Coupons/busnell-trophy-xlt.pdf (http://media.midwayusa.com/pdf/Coupons/busnell-trophy-xlt.pdf)
Also, the lowest price I can find, with free shipping. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/662378-REG/Bushnell_734120_Trophy_XLT_4_12x40_Riflescope.html (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/662378-REG/Bushnell_734120_Trophy_XLT_4_12x40_Riflescope.html)
Saving $40 bucks on this is equivlent to THOUSANDS of rounds of ammo! ;)
You're only saving $10 over pyramid and losing the Butler Creek flip scope covers. Is it worth it?
FQ13
-
The covers actually get put in the box by Bushnell, not everybody advertises it. But their useless on this model anyway. Adjustable objective.
I've got those covers on a few scopes. I've found that especially if you ever carry the gun in the woods, I like "Scope coats" more. I leave it on if its raining or dew is dripping outta trees or anything until it's actually time to shoot. Pulling it off is just a fraction quicker than fumbeling with the caps for me. Feels much less "trinkety", and does a better job by protecting the whole scope IMO to.
The flip up caps do LOOK cooler on any gun, and are more fun to play with. But...
Matter of preferance I guess. :-\ I've dropped a Scope Coat in the mud while shooting before to. :(
Always a comprimise. ;)
-
Got it on order. $118 after I get back the rebate. Happy! ;D
-
Why order from B&H? Free shipping and awsume prices aside. The scope shipped this morning at 8:16 this morning!
I ordered my computer from them and got it three days after ordering it! Used their free shipping that time to. :)
-
RE: B and H Photo: We order a lot of pro A/V equipment from them. When they are on their game, they're awesome. I got four UPS units to replacing some ailing ones. These are 1,500VA units and weight about 20 pounds apiece, EIGHTY pounds total. Free shipping! No sales tax and they arrived the NEXT day. I was curious how that could be and discovered the manufacturer had them staged at various hubs around the country, Atlanta being one, as part of the free shipping promotion. So it really only shipped across town. BnH is to A/V equipment what MidwayUSA is to shooting.
-
RE: B and H Photo: We order a lot of pro A/V equipment from them. When they are on their game, they're awesome. I got four UPS units to replacing some ailing ones. These are 1,500VA units and weight about 20 pounds apiece, EIGHTY pounds total. Free shipping! No sales tax and they arrived the NEXT day. I was curious how that could be and discovered the manufacturer had them staged at various hubs around the country, Atlanta being one, as part of the free shipping promotion. So it really only shipped across town. BnH is to A/V equipment what MidwayUSA is to shooting.
Have you ever been in their store in Manhattan? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
-
B&H came through on the shipping again. :) Got it quick, and it came in a HUGE box full of peanuts just like the computer did. Nice, because they clearly know how some packages get beat on in delivery.
I've gotta say, the fist thing that grabbed me when I took this scope outta the box is. "Is the ENTIRE thing plastic??? Feels cheap. :(
I'm still not 100% sure the whole thing isn't plastic :-\ . And the adjustments (objective, and magnification) feel SUPER "plasticy" and cheap. :-\ Their smooth, not gritty, and turn with a fairly even amount of resistance... Just feel really lame. :-\
Made in Korea. Have to say it's the fist time I've seen that on a scope.
The tech. guy at Bushnell told me their manufacturing of the Trophy and Elite line moved, and the new manufacture uses better lens coatings they proudly mention in their add's. That's when they got rid of the "Elite 3200" line and renamed it "Elite Tactical" to.
With all the "it's a sure thing" recommendations I got on this scope I was feeling brave, used red thread locker this time. Not that any of the screws were loose last time, but, why not. Noticed when I took the CenterPoint lemon off that the "felt like" material in the rings has turned to a "glue like" material! Scope actually had to be PULLED off. NICE! The stuff all stayed in the rings, so should be fine for a second mounting.
(http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww40/BigCheeseStick/P1020161.jpg)
(http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww40/BigCheeseStick/P1020163.jpg)
Came with the flip up caps already on it.
Time to get her out to the old bombing range for some shooting / sighting in again. We'll see if "plasticy feeling" gets the job done... :-\ I like the deer skull on there though! ;)
-
ONE reason flip up caps are a FAIL. :(
(http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww40/BigCheeseStick/P1020178.jpg)
-
Is it time for part two yet? ;)
-
As of about half hour ago it is! ;D FINALLY got in new front tires and wheels for the car so it's fit to drive again! ;D Ever seen how cool it is when cars lift the front wheels off the ground on a drag strip? A lesson learned recently is that when the front end comes back down it often bends the skinny aluminum wheels! >:( :(
In an effort to further quite, and disguise the outline of the rifle I wrapped it with McNett rubberized camo tape. Should make a difference. Stuff's pretty thick and dense. We'll see. (It only sticks to itsself so no mess)
(http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww40/BigCheeseStick/P1020183.jpg)
Can't wrap the "break open" part of the barrel, or the objective (has numbers I need to see). One thing I can say already is that unlike the CenterPoint scope, the Bushnell adjustable objective acts as a range estimator. In that if you don't have it dialed into EXACTLY the correct range, everything’s VERY blurry. You've only got a few feet of give or take.
-
You did leave the tape on the scope loose enough so you didn't tweak the scope, right ?