The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Politics & RKBA => Topic started by: ratcatcher55 on June 08, 2011, 10:40:32 AM
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By way of TAM at Veiw From The Porch
STOCKTON, CA - Kenneth Wright does not have a criminal record and he had no reason to believe a S.W.A.T team would be breaking down his door at 6 a.m. on Tuesday.
"I look out of my window and I see 15 police officers," Wright said.
Wright came downstairs in his boxer shorts as a S.W.A.T team barged through his front door. Wright said an officer grabbed him by the neck and led him outside on his front lawn.
"He had his knee on my back and I had no idea why they were there," Wright said.
According to Wright, officers also woke his three young children ages 3, 7, and 11 and put them in a Stockton police patrol car with him. Officers then searched his house.
As it turned out, the person law enforcement was looking for was not there - Wright's estranged wife.
"They put me in handcuffs in that hot patrol car for six hours, traumatizing my kids," Wright said.
Wright said he later went to the mayor and Stockton Police Department, but the City of Stockton had nothing to do with Wright's search warrant.
The U.S. Department of Education issued the search and called in the S.W.A.T for his wife's defaulted student loans.
"They busted down my door for this," Wright said. "It wasn't even me."
According to the Department of Education's Office of the Inspector General, the case can't be discussed publicly until it is closed, but a spokesperson did confirm that the department did issue the search warrant at Wright's home.
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How does the Department of Education #1. Gain the power to obtain search warrants, and #2. Gain the power to call in a SWAT team for a raid?
I know this is California, but the way Case Law works this opens the door for this stuff to happen anywhere in the nation until someone puts a stop to it.
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I'm calling BS on this. While I would like to think that the Department of Education doesn't have a SWAT team, every other federal agency does, so why not? The idea that they are sending goon squads to collect bad student debt? For heaven's sake they'd need an army of them. Mostly they just threaten to sue or garnish wages, or withhold licences, no MP5s required. ::)
FQ13
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I'm calling BS on this. While I would like to think that the Department of Education doesn't have a SWAT team, every other federal agency does, so why not? The idea that they are sending goon squads to collect bad student debt? For heaven's sake they'd need an army of them. Mostly they just threaten to sue or garnish wages, or withhold licences, no MP5s required. ::)
FQ13
Oh my simple little friend, what is the point of having a SWAT/CERT/EMS unit if your not going to use them? How do you justify the cost? How do justify forming them in the first place? You need to have them so you get a bigger budget for FY2012.
So you send them out to serve warrants so you can show you really need them and will take money from those pesky US Marshals.
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One question. When did being in debt become a criminal offense? Unless there is fraud (like cheating on your taxes) its a civil matter. The government can and will screw you on fees and interest etc, but we don't have debtors prisons (lord knows every current and former Congress critter and POTUS would be the first ones arrested). The government may take your car and garnish your paycheck, but they ain't kicking in your door over a defaulted Stafford Loan.
FQ13
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One question. When did being in debt become a criminal offense? Unless there is fraud (like cheating on your taxes) its a civil matter. The government can and will screw you on fees and interest etc, but we don't have debtors prisons (lord knows every current and former Congress critter and POTUS would be the first ones arrested). The government may take your car and garnish your paycheck, but they ain't kicking in your door over a defaulted Stafford Loan.
FQ13
I'll assume they consider it fraud not being a lawyer myself. I do not understand the need for a SWAT team for HUD but they have one too.
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I decided long ago, anyone breaks down my door on a no knock warrant, they better be prepared to die, because I will be. >:(
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I do not understand the need for a SWAT team for HUD but they have one too.
Actually, that one makes sense. HUD housing is rifle country (read my sig).
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When I was out of work I was offered a position for good money as a Housing Facilitator...I would visit public housing, inspect defects and schedule maintenance or repair, then inspect the work when complete. I turned it down because I would not be permitted to be armed when at work. That's like walking into a grizzly cage with a fly swatter...its only a matter of time.
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This is a video from a TV station.
http://www.realecontv.com/videos/government-corruption/debt-collection-swat-style-.html
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This is a video from a TV station.
http://www.realecontv.com/videos/government-corruption/debt-collection-swat-style-.html
Great link. ;D
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Damn.
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"ALL governmental laws, rules and regulations are enforced at the point of a gun"
Regardless of how you think they SHOULD be enforced, this is what it comes down to. Many liberals will either deny it or look at you in bewilderment if you tell them this. But folks, that's how it is.
I think this guy should play the race card. I think he should hire a flamboyant lawyer and start holding press conferences. Talk about how they would have never deployed a SWAT team if he were white or if lived in a up-scale neighborhood.
Alf < who will check with the library to make sure I don't have any overdue books.
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This entire story is outrageous. That any government agency would break down the door of a private residence and assault a man for a monetary debt is beyond the pale.
This guy NEEDS to find a hotshot shylock and sue 'em until they bleed!
The rest of us need to think about restoring honorable, limited, responsive government.
Tar, feathers, rails and good quality hemp rope should see a rapid rise in demand.
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This entire story is outrageous. That any government agency would break down the door of a private residence and assault a man for a monetary debt is beyond the pale.
This guy NEEDS to find a hotshot shylock and sue 'em until they bleed!
The rest of us need to think about restoring honorable, limited, responsive government.
Tar, feathers, rails and good quality hemp rope should see a rapid rise in demand.
"Should", is the active word here.
This won't happen because the American people have become a nation of gullible sheep who see nothing wrong with black clad thugs, wearing ski masks, and carrying automatic weapons, kicking down citizens doors in the middle of the night.
As long as it's "for the children".
Rome devolved into a "bunch of WOP's" who can't seem to finish a war on the same side they started on.
The British Empire became a bunch of "welfare state Limeys".
And the America that produced "the greatest generation", has sunk to the level of tolerating anything in the name of "safety".
The sheeple deserve what they get.
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The "greatest" generation was the greatest FAIL when it came to parenting or handing down values. They gave their full measure, but left nothing for their own families :-[
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This is the reason some in government don't want us armed, and the reason we must be armed >:(
Not to sound paranoid, but in a "smash and grab" situation how am I to tell the good guys from the bad?
We have a meth cooker in our neighborhood, and we have had a murder and a couple of questionable suicides as well. I would hope that my association with the local law enforcement would buy me the benefit of the doubt, but what if a group made the same error with me that they made here?
Sorry folks, but I have done nothing wrong, and as much as I would hate to be dead, I am not going to double check your credentials against the bad guys if you kick down my door!
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The "greatest" generation was the greatest FAIL when it came to parenting or handing down values. They gave their full measure, but left nothing for their own families :-[
I agree that that era was where things began to 'turn' sour. I don't know if it was so much that they failed to pass it on as much as it was that many of the "boomers" failed to learn. Many (not all, because it only takes 'just enough') decided in the 60's that they had to do it their way......and the problem has done nothing but cascade exponentially with each successive generation.
*(Present company of "boomers" on the forum is excluded, of course) ;D
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Sorry folks, but I have done nothing wrong, and as much as I would hate to be dead, I am not going to double check your credentials against the bad guys if you kick down my door!
Exactly right.
In home invasions the robbers smash in the door while yelling "POLICE!". Thefts of uniforms have gone on for years.
Steenkin' badges? I have two real ones....neither say police but you can't tell from 10' away.
How the hell are you supposed to know?
My family doesn't engage in illegal activity, we even pay our student loans.::) If someone smashes in my front door it will be because THEY screwed up and got the wrong house.
The really, really wrong house.
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Sorry folks, but I have done nothing wrong, and as much as I would hate to be dead, I am not going to double check your credentials against the bad guys if you kick down my door!
We need to form our own HOA in a gated community. I know I would feel much safer with you guys around instead of halfway across the country in every direction. The BG's would have a seriously hard time boosting anything in our neighborhood, that's for sure. ;D
FQ has to stay in the gatehouse with his Sportical! <cough - cannon fodder - cough>. ;)
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We need to form our own HOA in a gated community. I know I would feel much safer with you guys around instead of halfway across the country in every direction. The BG's would have a seriously hard time boosting anything in our neighborhood, that's for sure. ;D
FQ has to stay in the gatehouse with his Sportical! <cough - cannon fodder - cough>. ;)
+1
The DRTV Estates Compound ;D
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We need to form our own HOA in a gated community. I know I would feel much safer with you guys around instead of halfway across the country in every direction. The BG's would have a seriously hard time boosting anything in our neighborhood, that's for sure. ;D
FQ has to stay in the gatehouse with his Sportical! <cough - cannon fodder - cough>. ;)
Gates? We don't need no steenkin' gates!!!
(http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e330/m58/TableShot.jpg)
Minimum residence requirements:
Two handguns per occupant and at least one must be a 1911 suitable for shower wear;
One shotgun per occupant with at least one being a 12 ga;
One politically incorrect rifle per occupant with at least one being a .30 caliber
Knives, flashlights and canes as wished;
Outdoor channel in every cable package;
Autographed photo of Pincus and Janich on every refrigerator;
The Best Defense and The Best Defense: Survival DVD collection in every home theater;
Roof top landing lights for the blond chick on her broom and flight of flying monkeys;
And one gas powered Hazaritta blender next to the hot tub and fire pit.
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Can I have Jesse Abata fridge magnets instead?
FQ13 who will man the gate house, provided its three bedroom and free.
FQ13
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Gates? We don't need no steenkin' gates!!!
Of course we do, silly. That's FQ's post. ;) ;) ;)
Minimum residence requirements:
Two handguns per occupant and at least one must be a 1911 suitable for shower wear; Check!
One shotgun per occupant with at least one being a 12 ga; Check!
One politically incorrect rifle per occupant with at least one being a .30 caliber Check!
Knives, flashlights and canes as wished; Check!
Outdoor channel in every cable package; Check!
Autographed photo of Pincus and Janich on every refrigerator; I don't think so - waaaaay too gay!!!!!!
The Best Defense and The Best Defense: Survival DVD collection in every home theater; Check!
Roof top landing lights for the blond chick on her broom and flight of flying monkeys; On the To Do list!
And one gas powered Hazaritta blender next to the hot tub and fire pit. Ditto!
I'm in!!!!! ;D
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I'm in I just want there to be an indoor range in the coutyard.
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I'm in I just want there to be an indoor range in the coutyard.
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Indoor range? Were you not paying attention to who lives here? Just open the back door and blaze away. All yards will be 100 yards and come with a very tastefully landscaped berm at the end.
FQ13
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Indoor range? Were you not paying attention to who lives here? Just open the back door and blaze away. All yards will be 100 yards and come with a very tastefully landscaped berm at the end.
Dibs on the corner lot if it goes to 200. ;D
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Dibs on the corner lot if it goes to 200. ;D
That one's avalible, but it backs up to Billt and you have to sign a liability waiver. ;)
FQ13
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That one's avalible, but it backs up to Billt and you have to sign a liability waiver. ;)
FQ13
Yeah, Bill needs a heavy duty berm......... ;D ;D ;D ;D
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I'll have to work out a deal - no 50s before 8am. :D
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I'll have to work out a deal - no 50s before 8am. :D
The JMB alarm clock. :D
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I'll have to work out a deal - no 50s before 8am. :D
You are so failing your meeting in front of the committee. .50s can start whenever--wear your hearing protection at all times when on the property. Sheesh...
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Indoor range? Were you not paying attention to who lives here? Just open the back door and blaze away. All yards will be 100 1000yards and come with a very tastefully landscaped berm at the end.
FQ13
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You are so failing your meeting in front of the committee. .50s can start whenever--wear your hearing protection at all times when on the property. Sheesh...
No, just that cans are required during "quiet" hours...
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Large range for each lot isn't an efficient use of the land.
We need to have the development be one long street, a cul-de-sac with the large club house at the end of it. At this location will be the micro-brewery and pit smoker facilities, supporting any other cooking facilities desired.
Along one side of the street, behind the houses, there will be a mile deep open area bordered by a butte or other very high geographic feature. Any ranges can be set up on this side of the street, including any requiring special landscaping like sporting clays, along with traditional long range rifle ranges. This area will also accommodate any "special" weapons which can be safely be fired on a 1 mile range.
On the other side of the street, behind the houses will be a very large wilderness area supporting all kinds of hunting and fishing.
Spaced between the houses will be workshops for reloading and gunsmithing including machine shops. Indoor ranges can be bulit here also.
Expansion will only be along the road away from the club house. Early Birds get a location close to the club house.
That's a start. Any improvements?
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In the Indiana case, Barnes v. State of Indiana, the State Supreme Court ruled that police can enter a resident's private property at any time - without a warrant, without suspicion, without reason - and without knocking and announcing their presence!
"The common law right to resist a police officer illegally entering a home no longer exists," said Justice Steven David about the Court's inane ruling.
In the U.S. Supreme Court's decision on Kentucky v. King, the Justices also ruled to give police the authority to enter your home without obtaining a search warrant, in expanded circumstances...but the police have to knock, first.
The Fourth Amendment violation in Kentucky v. King occurred when police officers invaded the wrong home during a search for a suspect. After busting through the wrong door, police found illegal drugs in the home, which they discovered by error, and without first obtaining a search warrant from a judge.
What this means for you, and your law-abiding friends and family members, is that the U.S. Supreme Court's decision has effectively stripped every citizen of their Fourth Amendment protections!
Right now, SWAT teams can invade innocent citizens' homes without probable cause! And, if you dare to protect your home and your family from an intruder, not knowing that the "intruder" is law enforcement, then you could be shot and killed if you are armed.
This is what happened to Jose Guereña, a young Marine and Iraq War veteran, who was killed by a SWAT team that invaded his home and fired 71 bullets -- 22 penetrating Guereña's body -- all because his brother, who did not live with him, was suspected of drug trafficking. Jose Guereña had a clean record, and police never found anything suspicious in his home. Now his young wife is left to raise their child as a single parent. If this is what the police can do with a warrant, what will happen to you and your family when police enter your home without one?
This is an excerpt from an Ameripac Bulletin
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The country needs to learn that the War On Drugs, that has produced little if any good and actually increases drug related crime by keeping the price of addition high, is one greatest destroyer of citizens rights going. The War on Terror is right up there with it.
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The country needs to learn that the War On Drugs, that has produced little if any good
I saw a show last week that had an interesting stat: Before the "war" was declared, pot use among students was 50%.
After putting 100s of millions into the war on drugs, DARE programs, etc., the student rate of pot use is 48%.
Great return on the money spent. ::)
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I know I'm late to this thread, but some time ago somewhere on the forum or the DRTV is was stated the Dept of Education had an appropriation for a bunch of short barreled shotguns.
Here is some information, or just google "Department of Education" + shotgun
http://usgovinfo.about.com/b/2010/03/18/why-the-dept-of-education-needs-shotguns.htm
Additionally it sounds like the cornor has now become the neighborhood.
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I found an update to this story;
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/06/09/unpaid-student-loan-raid-claim-refuted-as-feds-target-california-couple-in/
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Even if the guy is guilty, these Rambo wannabe's basically staged a commando raid on the guys house over lying on financial aid forms .
Gee, I can't understand why so many people think cops are assholes.
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Gee, I can't understand why so many people think cops are assholes.
In 54 years, I've found little in life to dispute the previous statement.
I don't hate cops, I just despise incompetent people!
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Even if the guy is guilty, these Rambo wannabe's basically staged a commando raid on the guys house over lying on financial aid forms .
You do understand that most federal crimes basically boils down to lying on federal forms? Firearms are a good example. Most charges boil down to either lying on the 4473 (is this purchase for you own personal use?) or dealing without getting the proper license. (sort of an absence of paperwork)
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You do understand that most federal crimes basically boils down to lying on federal forms? Firearms are a good example. Most charges boil down to either lying on the 4473 (is this purchase for you own personal use?) or dealing without getting the proper license. (sort of an absence of paperwork)
Are you saying you think this ridiculous over reaction is proper ?
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No, Tom, from what is known of this case the force was totally excessive.
Just saying that many federal crimes now involve paperwork fraud, or lack thereof. As an example, if you execute a straw purchase, what they persecute you for is lying on the federal form 4473.
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No, Tom, from what is known of this case the force was totally excessive.
Just saying that many federal crimes now involve paperwork fraud, or lack thereof. As an example, if you execute a straw purchase, what they persecute you for is lying on the federal form 4473.
Much of that is so they have an easier time getting a conviction. The form is it's own proof.
But they might have a hard time proving in court that when you bought that nice Glock 23 for your brother's birthday present you had any intention of illegal dealings since your brother is not restricted from possessing firearms and even has a CCW.
But they gotcha for sure on that form.
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I found an update to this story;
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/06/09/unpaid-student-loan-raid-claim-refuted-as-feds-target-california-couple-in/
And the damage control CYA begins.
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The more I see this thead pop up the more I think
Mall Ninja
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But they might have a hard time proving in court that when you bought that nice Glock 23 for your brother's birthday present you had any intention of illegal dealings since your brother is not restricted from possessing firearms and even has a CCW.
But they gotcha for sure on that form.
Uh, no. Buying a gun for a "present" is permissible. That is consider a "personal use". HOWEVER, if you are compensated or paid back for the gun then it's not a present.
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Tricky area....and differs from state to state, I expect.
It is one thing to take money and go into a gun store expressly to purchase a gun for someone who can not legally purchase one for themselves but another thing to purchase a gun for personal use and then later sell it to someone that, to the best of your knowledge, would not be legally forbidden from owning a firearm. I would think that 'gifting' a gun would reasonably fall into the same general category as the latter scenario......but again, each state is different.