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Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: Badgersmilk on June 10, 2011, 01:02:03 PM

Title: HBO mini-series (war movies)
Post by: Badgersmilk on June 10, 2011, 01:02:03 PM
http://www.hbo.com/#/the-pacific (http://www.hbo.com/#/the-pacific)

I'd picked up "Band of Brothers" on blueray as soon as it came out and it was AWSUME!!!  Great stuff!

I keep walking past "The Pacific" at the local Sams club, thinking about getting it each time, but has anybody seen it?  Worth the money?

Only thing keeping me from it is how soooooo many WWII movies are sugar coated and slanted toward making the US look infallible.  ::)  Showing the story Americans "want" to see.  Nothing about the truth.  I've spent a good deal of time talking to vets and researching.  Our movies / history books are pretty disgustingly biased.   >:(   ::)

"Band of Brothers" stayed away from all that, and was REALLY GOOD!

Nobody talks about "The Pacific" to much.  :-\

Or even "Generation Kill"???
http://www.hbo.com/#/generation-kill (http://www.hbo.com/#/generation-kill)
Title: Re: HBO mini-series (war movies)
Post by: twyacht on June 10, 2011, 04:06:51 PM
Both the Pacific, and Generation Kill, are worth watching, owning is up to you. But there are some great scenes, including the very effective combat 12g in the Pacific.





get'em.
Title: Re: HBO mini-series (war movies)
Post by: tombogan03884 on June 10, 2011, 06:11:35 PM
Get "The Pacific" ! You will NOT be sorry !
It follows several well known Marines, MOH recipient John Basilone, Richard Tregaskis (Helmet for my Pillow ) EB Sledge ( With the "Old Breed" ) from Guadalcanal through the end of the war.
I only caught one technical error, at Guadalcanal the Marines were still using the flat "Tommy" style helmets, but in the series they have regular "pot's".  Weapons are accurate, although you don't see any more Water cooled machine guns after the Guadalcanal episodes.
Title: Re: HBO mini-series (war movies)
Post by: DGF on June 10, 2011, 08:36:36 PM
I liked "A band of Brothers" a lot. Excellent. I liked "The Pacific" as well. I got the feeling though that the marines in 'The Pacific" didn't like each other very much. They bordered on being  mean to each other. I had an uncle ( now deceased) that went ashore on Tarawa and his telling of it was more like the camaraderie you see in Band of Brothers. Of the two I felt Brothers was the better series.
Title: Re: HBO mini-series (war movies)
Post by: fightingquaker13 on June 10, 2011, 09:56:29 PM
Not real sure about group dynamics in WWII. Liking each other is a lot less important than disliking the Japs more. What matters is trusting someone on your six and that's a function of trusting their training (generally a yes for Marines even if he's an FNG) and then trusting their character, which you can't hide for long in the field. There are some interesting studies about Vietnam where racial and political tensions were high. They seem to show that in field units, even with high personal animosity, the units still functioned effectively as there wasn't a lot of choice in the matter. I would be curious to see some side by side comparisons on the small unit level as there wasn't the extreme social division in 1943 as there was in 1968.
FQ13 who will turn off his inner history/poli sci geek now :-[
Title: Re: HBO mini-series (war movies)
Post by: Badgersmilk on June 10, 2011, 10:59:33 PM
What DGF's saying sounds about right from what I've heard to.  The WWII vets I've spoke with who were enlisted all had packs of friends.  Usually 4 or 5 guys that were pretty tight.  Officers usually had one, maybe two guys they were tight with if any at all.  And that's exactly how things were portrayed in "Band of Brothers".  To tell the truth, its how things were before and durring my time in Iraq.  :-\  Soooo, not much has changed in 60+ years in that perspective I guess.

And oh yeah, nearly all Vietnam vets I've spoke with sooner or later get around to how the different races each did their own thing and stayed away from each other as much as possible durring that erra.

I'd also say "Full Metal Jacket" was amazingly accurate in the "group dynamics" thing.  In fact, in about every part of military life as I recall it.  We didn't have a guy shoot himself in basic, but one night one did go into the shower and ram his head into the wall as hard as he could till he split his skull...  That proved...  Memorable.

As far as what vets think about the enemy...  I believe every opinion I ever heard.  And my own for that matter.  Was "They're the reason I'm here."  Minute, and political details of that, and group dynamics aside, the one shining fact in your mind was.  "Their the reason I'm here and not home right now.  If they're not here, I don't have to be."   Guess how we fix that problem?

It's not about hating the enemy, as much as it's about hating the situation your in.  And being willing to kill to get out of it.  It really just doesn't matter who's on the other end of the weapon if he's the one between you and getting out of that situation.


Hmmm, why does it feel so wrong talking about that stuff???  It's what we were trained.  It works.


Weren't we talking about movies a minute ago?   ;D



Title: Re: HBO mini-series (war movies)
Post by: tombogan03884 on June 11, 2011, 12:32:20 AM
FQ, most of those studies are probably bullshit. As an example, if 2 guys had a fist fight, it generally got blown off as no big deal, unless one was black, then it was a "racial incident" and every one from the platoon Sgt. up to the base CG got his nose in it and the white guy generally got Brig time.
Title: Re: HBO mini-series (war movies)
Post by: fightingquaker13 on June 11, 2011, 12:45:10 AM
FQ, most of those studies are probably bullshit. As an example, if 2 guys had a fist fight, it generally got blown off as no big deal, unless one was black, then it was a "racial incident" and every one from the platoon Sgt. up to the base CG got his nose in it and the white guy generally got Brig time.
I'm not so sure. Take you, me, and Path. We aren't  always exactly tight. Yet, in a SHTF scenario, we'd trust each other because we'd be better than the alternative. That bond would be stronger between you and any other Marine on the planet, because even if you never met the guy, or hated his politics, you could rely on his training and the code of never leaving a fellow Marine behind. I'll give you James Carville and Montel Williams as exhibits A and B. I'd bet my bottom dollar they'd take a bullet for you and you'd do the same.Training matters, as does culture as it creates trust among strangers and that's what holds nations together.
FQ13
Title: Re: HBO mini-series (war movies)
Post by: tombogan03884 on June 11, 2011, 01:17:15 AM
First off, Montel Williams was Navy,
Seriously, the simple fact of both being Marines, or sailors etc is far less relevant than previous shared experience.
It doesn't matter that 2 people were in the same service, what matters is, "I went through PI with that guy" or  "I was on mess duty with that guy", "He's in my Company".
The chain of connection expands upward from your 2 or 3 closest buddies,  your fire team, these are the people you work, eat, sleep,and shit with. These people are with you  24/7/ 365,  the connection gets less intense as it expands, from squad level up through Platoon level, there might be people at the Company level you don't even know by name.
Beyond that it pretty much ends, you will show more loyalty to some one you dislike from your own Company than to a stranger who may be a nice guy.
Title: Re: HBO mini-series (war movies)
Post by: Badgersmilk on June 13, 2011, 03:34:58 PM
Well, I found out I can order the entire series of "The Pacific", and "Generation Kill" DVD's from Netflix.  So I signed up and their on the way for free!  :)

In the meantime I decided to watch "WWII in HD" by the "History" Channel.  BIG mistake!  The ONLY voices you'll hear in the entire production are those of jewish people...  So do you think "history" has got just a LITTLE slant on it here?!?!  WHAT TOTAL BS!  The people who put this together can smoke a giant t#rd in #ell for what they did.   ::)  Some "history".  ::) ::) ::)

Yes, Gary Sinise is a Catholic.  NOW.  He converted because his wife.  Guess what he grew up as?   ::)

I've got NOTHING against jews if they'd just let the world know the truth about what Germany was like BEFORE Hitler!  And why they were persecuted!!!  

If nothing else the Jews should certainly be proud of their unmatched ability to deceive the western world for more than 70 years!  

Doesn't hurt having the "History" Channel in you pocket I guess.   ::)

Do you suppose Time magazine voted Hitler "Man of the Year" for no reason?

Do you hear the Pollocks crying / lying to the world?  Whats worse is that THEY got the short end of the stick without asking for it.  They just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.  And got it WORSE than the jews!!!   :(
Title: Re: HBO mini-series (war movies)
Post by: tombogan03884 on June 13, 2011, 03:52:08 PM
That comment about the Poles "And got it WORSE than the jews!!!" is pure bullshit.
Why do you think all the "death" camps were in the East ?  The Polish "Home Army" used to turn Jew's in to the Nazi's.
Many of the Jews in Germany had fled there from Poland.
The Poles got what they deserved, they were in a perfect position to play off Germany and Russia against each other so they would both have reason to guarantee Poland's borders, instead, with obsolete forces of insufficient strength, and with no allies in a position to help them, they pissed off both countries.
Title: Re: HBO mini-series (war movies)
Post by: Badgersmilk on June 13, 2011, 05:42:23 PM
I'll give you the Poll's weren't the sharpest tools in the shed (no secret  ;) )  But more Poll's died in camps than Jew's.  Nazi's AND the Russians were after the Poll's.  The total killed completely eclipsed the numbers of jews killed.  By "wrong place at the wrong time", I meant that the Poll's were helplessly sitting on a natural resources gold mine.  So when both Russia, and Hitler had enough of buying from them at ever raising prices...  Well, they "were in the wrong place at the wrong time".  Stinks being the resources rich kid on the block when your hungry neighbors are bigger than you.   ;)

Granted, the Pollocks were dumb for not choosing an alliance AND building a military (their people were to under educated to know which end of the rifle to hold.  And its no like the Italians were any better), but at least the Poll's aren't STILL crying about it expecting the world to have a pitty party SEVENTY years later.   ::)  So I'll give them points if only because the took their whoopin like a man.  AND, the Jew's asked for what they got by driving their countries into a depression with they BS business practices.

We Americans aren't the worlds sweethearts like we pretend to be either.   ::)  Before the "death camps" were started Hitler put the jews on boats (CRUISE SHIPS NO LESS!) and sent them here.  Guess what.  We turned them away for the same reason Hitler was trying to get rid of them in the first place.
Title: Re: HBO mini-series (war movies)
Post by: Badgersmilk on June 13, 2011, 06:15:10 PM
Side note:  For those who like End of the World stuff, "Jericho" is on Netflix to!   ;D  I thought it was a great show first time around.  Plan on watching it again tonight.  :)
Title: Re: HBO mini-series (war movies)
Post by: Pathfinder on June 13, 2011, 06:51:47 PM
Badger and Tom, both of you chill out!!!! You are both hugely wrong.

The Poles broke the German Enigma code - BY HAND!!! Before the British. In fact, the British Enigma work was started by the Poles who then made it to England. Not smart? BS!! Like most in Europe, they had no clue what was coming at them from both sides.

The Poles had alliances - Like Finland, their "allies" did nothing to help them when attacked to avoid pissing off Stalin.

On the one hand you want us to believe that the Poles aren't smart, but OTOH you want us to believe they were able to piss off both the Nazi's and the Commies?

In fact, both the Nazis and the Commies both wanted Poland - the Nazis for slave labor and lebensraum, and the Commies for total subjugation in the NWO after WW2. When the Polish Home Army and partisans rose up in revolt in early 1945, Stalin ordered his nearby Red forces to sit still and do nothing to help, letting the Germans destroy what would otherwise become a thorn in Stalin's side - and wear themselves out in the process. Not to mention the earlier Katyn forest massacre where over 4000 Polish officers were executed by the NKVD. Nor the Warsaw uprising by Badger's disliked Jews who held the krauts off for a month - all without training, reinforcements, supplies (other than what could be stolen) or "allied help".

For the record, Badger, the WW2 in HD is a series - what you saw was one episode. I have watched it myself and do not see the Jewish influence over the whole series. Especially all of the episodes with the Japanese.

Both of you need to lay off the whole "they had it coming" or "got what it deserved" crap. In these 2 cases it is totally wrong.
Title: Re: HBO mini-series (war movies)
Post by: tombogan03884 on June 13, 2011, 08:44:27 PM
Finland was in no position to help any one, they had all they could do to survive against the Russians. Poland suffered the "encirclement" that Kaiser Wilhelm had feared . Yes, they were allied to France, but that was meaningless. There was no way France, or any other country could get supplies or reinforcements into Poland.
And I never said the Polish people weren't smart or brave, just anti Semite bastards.
In fact, Before Hitler, Germany had the best reputation in Europe for how Jews were treated.
Where the Polish Government blew it was in their land demands after WWI, prior to that Poland did not exist as an independent nation.  The demands for lands, such as the previously German, East Prussia , left everyone predicting another war.
Title: Re: HBO mini-series (war movies)
Post by: Badgersmilk on June 14, 2011, 10:05:22 AM
I'm not getting pissed or anything at the discussion.  And enjoy especially your and Tom's input because you've done some research beyond the total BS our school system and press would lead you to believe. 

Absolutely right both Russia and Germany wanted Poland.  Because of their natural resources.  That's what I meant by saying the pol's were in the wrong place at the wrong time.  They were sitting on top something both of the bigger countries wanted.  :(

No great surprise for anyone France was no help.   :(

What I was trying to say (thought it was more clear) was the the pol's were more or less innocent victims.  And suffered far greater losses during the war than the jews.  The jews (Do the research on why Germans economy was in the crapper prior to the war) asked for what they got.  Their business practices were along the lines of the Italian mafia, but better managed.  Hitler made FAR more friendly "PC" attempts to deal with his countries issues the jews had created.  Problem is, they knew they were successfully raping the German economy for every cent they could.  Why change when asked?  Or leave???  When forced to leave NOBODY would take them.  Yes, the "great melting pot" turned them away to!

We (america) and everybody refused to take them.  They wouldn't stop their corrupt, thieving practices.  Hitler, being "a bit of an extremist" did what he felt was the only remaining answer to save his country.  Where'd he get the idea???  Stalin makes what Hitler did look like a tip tow through the daisies!  We never say a WORD about Stalin activities!   :o ::)  American are just so stupid we eat up whatever lies their fed like its a novel about teenage vampires in love.   ::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: HBO mini-series (war movies)
Post by: tombogan03884 on June 14, 2011, 10:51:08 AM
While I agree with your statement that this isn't an argument, it is a debate that goes beyond the trite oversimplification of modern "education".
But I have to take issue with you blaming the Jews for Germany's problems post WWI. It's BS.
Germany's 2 biggest problems were they lost the war, #1, while the Army may have still been holding the allies the country had been bled white. With US entry into the war, even with the troops released from the Eastern front by the collapse of Russia, it was only a matter of time before the numerical superiority of the US simply overwhelmed them.  While many like to cling to the "stab in the back" excuse, the simple fact is that the German people were starving, troops at the front were eating better than civilians at home.
#2 is the fact of the political upheaval that started with the abdication of Kaiser Wilhelm. Between punitive reparations demanded by the Allies, incompetent fiscal management by the inexperienced "democracy" of the Wiemar Republic, and  the continuation of the allied blockade of Germany the nation had limited ability to resist the revolutionary warfare instigated by communist subversives. The war may have ended in 1918, but fighting in Germany lasted well into the 20's.
In short, Germany's problems had nothing to do with the Jews.
If you want to read a novelized version of this period that will give you an accurate perspective, read "Winter" by Len Deighton.  It follows the fortunes of a Berlin family from 1-1-1900 through the end of the war.
Title: Re: HBO mini-series (war movies)
Post by: Badgersmilk on June 14, 2011, 12:32:58 PM
Both valid points for their period.  But looking at the period closer to the beginning of WWII Germany's economy was being hurt primarily by the fact that unless you were jewish you paid a premium for everything you bought.  A HUGE premium.  And the origin of the premium was simply the jewish business community controlling prices.  How did Hitler spin the economy in a 180, put people back to work, make food affordable, housing, even luxuries?  He shut down the jewish businesses.  Yes, it was comprable to a witch hunt in that if somebody accused you of jewish favoratism...  You were LUCKY if all they did was shut your stores doors and label you as unfit to buy from.  This tactic WORKED.  Worked fast.  I'm not sure, but believe it was only 6 months Hitler was in office before he'd successfully turned things in the right direction, and was recieving world wide recognition for it. 

Time magazine:
(http://www.scrapbookpages.com/DachauMemorial/TimeCover.jpg)

If you ask most americans, and I did ask a few of my kids friends who just got out of world history a few weeks back.  They'll tell you. "WWII started because Hitler was killing all the jews and the rest of the world wasn't going to let him."...  Ohhhh, boy.  :(  :(

Tom, appreciate your commentary!  But UPS just came with my scope!  LATER!   ;)
Title: Re: HBO mini-series (war movies)
Post by: Pathfinder on June 14, 2011, 12:48:29 PM
My reference to Finland was not as a Polish ally, but rather the Finns found themselves in a similar position when attacked by the Commies in 1940 - they appealed for help from England and France and got absolutely nothing. Oh, Churchill used the idea of helping Finland to help sell his idea to invade Norway at Narvik, but that was as far as any "help" the Finns got.

The Poles got no help from these same 2 "allies" either. That was my point.

As for the post-WWI era, Tom about covered it all, except he missed that in addition to crushing reparations, the Germans also lost the Alsace industrial region to the French, a region that provided considerable wealth to the Germans before WWI.

The German people were starving as the war dragged on. There is a story told about a tram horse dropping dead in the street, and within an hour there was nothing left - the citizens butchered it where it fell and carried off everything for the stew pot.

Whatever the failings of the Jews in Europe - and there were undoubtedly many - it in no way constitutes a "they deserved it" mindset. The Jews have been a European whipping boy since the Medieval Age, and were officially thrown out of most of the countries in Europe at one time or another.

Example: Very few people know that the very day that Columbus left port to explore to the west, August 3, 1492, was also the last official day you could remain in Spain and not be a Catholic. In the 2-300 years prior to this, the Jews were expelled from the various baronies and dukedoms that comprised France and Germany, Austrian, as well as from England.

Hitler had lots of options, but truth is, he simply used them as a continuing scapegoat for all of the problems that came from the abusive punishment of the allies, the incompetence of the Weimar gummint, the subversive meddling of the Commies, and all of the other problems that faced post-war Germany.
Title: Re: HBO mini-series (war movies)
Post by: tombogan03884 on June 14, 2011, 01:51:33 PM
Finland was the country that really took the shaft.
In their heroic defiance of the Soviets  circumstances forced them into alliance with Nazi Germany, while the Finns did not agree with Nazi policy they wound up getting slandered by the association. Americans who volunteered to serve with the Finnish armed forces, such as pilots, received far harsher punishment than those who served with the communists in Spain.
Title: Re: HBO mini-series (war movies)
Post by: fightingquaker13 on June 15, 2011, 12:03:48 AM
Both valid points for their period.  But looking at the period closer to the beginning of WWII Germany's economy was being hurt primarily by the fact that unless you were Jewish you paid a premium for everything you bought.  A HUGE premium.  And the origin of the premium was simply the jewish business community controlling prices.  How did Hitler spin the economy in a 180, put people back to work, make food affordable, housing, even luxuries?  He shut down the jewish businesses.  Yes, it was comprable to a witch hunt in that if somebody accused you of jewish favoratism...  You were LUCKY if all they did was shut your stores doors and label you as unfit to buy from.  This tactic WORKED.  Worked fast.  I'm not sure, but believe it was only 6 months Hitler was in office before he'd successfully turned things in the right direction, and was recieving world wide recognition for it.  

Time magazine:
(http://www.scrapbookpages.com/DachauMemorial/TimeCover.jpg)

If you ask most americans, and I did ask a few of my kids friends who just got out of world history a few weeks back.  They'll tell you. "WWII started because Hitler was killing all the jews and the rest of the world wasn't going to let him."...  Ohhhh, boy.  :(  :(

Tom, appreciate your commentary!  But UPS just came with my scope!  LATER!   ;)

Badger:
Oh boy, .................I like you so I'm not going to just unload. I will be calm about this and ask one simple, polite question. WHAT THE f..k ARE YOU THINKING? The German economy was in the crapper because of the reparations required after WWI (no Jews in the room). Anti-semitism (substitute anti anythingism) as a way to say "hey guys, look over  there" and keep your eye off the ball is a time honored political tactic going back to when Nero blamed the Christians for the burning of Rome. The Jews "had it coming" about as much as the Roman Christians, the Cherokees in Georgia or any other minority that got in the way of other people's plans for power. To say otherwise isn't just wrong, it's ignorant, as history is full of examples. Hitler was an opportunist who used cultural prejudice to his advantage. The Jews did nothing to be exterminated as a race. They just were a good excuse for a group of elites to take power. Badger, try reading a bit. Honestly, "The Jews brought about the depression"? How many mandated reparations, drafted Smoot-Hawley, or  sat on The Dow? C'mon man, let's not forget what our grandfathers died fighting against.  :'(
FQ13
Title: Re: HBO mini-series (war movies)
Post by: tombogan03884 on June 15, 2011, 10:51:40 AM
Badger:
Oh boy, .................I like you so I'm not going to just unload. I will be calm about this and ask one simple, polite question. WHAT THE f..k ARE YOU THINKING? The German economy was in the crapper because of the reparations required after WWI (no Jews in the room). Anti-semitism (substitute anti anythingism) as a way to say "hey guys, look over  there" and keep your eye off the ball is a time honored political tactic going back to when Nero blamed the Christians for the burning of Rome. The Jews "had it coming" about as much as the Roman Christians, the Cherokees in Georgia or any other minority that got in the way of other people's plans for power. To say otherwise isn't just wrong, it's ignorant, as history is full of examples. Hitler was an opportunist who used cultural prejudice to his advantage. The Jews did nothing to be exterminated as a race. They just were a good excuse for a group of elites to take power. Badger, try reading a bit. Honestly, "The Jews brought about the depression"? How many mandated reparations, drafted Smoot-Hawley, or  sat on The Dow? C'mon man, let's not forget what our grandfathers died fighting against.  :'(
FQ13

Mark this on the calendar, I actually agree with what FQ posted .
As for AH being on the cover of TIME, that's not exactly a recommendation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_Person_of_the_Year


Year    Choice    Lifetime    Notes
1927    Charles Lindbergh     USA    1902–1974    
1928    Walter Chrysler     USA    1875–1940    
1929    Owen D. Young     USA    1874–1962    
1930    Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi     British Raj    1869–1948    
1931    Pierre Laval     France    1883–1945    
1932    Franklin D. Roosevelt     USA    1882–1945    
1933    Hugh Samuel Johnson     USA    1882–1942    
1934    Franklin D. Roosevelt     USA    1882–1945    
1935    Emperor Haile Selassie I     Ethiopia    1892–1975    
1936    Wallis Simpson     USA    1896–1986    
1937    Chiang Kai-shek     Republic of China    1887–1975    
Soong May-ling     Republic of China    1898–2003    
1938    Adolf Hitler     Germany    1889–1945    
1939    Joseph Stalin     USSR    1878–1953    
1940    Winston Churchill     UK    1874–1965    
1941    Franklin D. Roosevelt     USA    1882–1945    
1942    Joseph Stalin     USSR    1878–1953    
1943    George Marshall     USA    1880–1959    
1944    Dwight D. Eisenhower     USA    1890–1969    
1945    Harry S. Truman     USA    1884–1972    
1946    James F. Byrnes     USA    1879–1972    
1947    George Marshall     USA    1880–1959    
1948    Harry S. Truman     USA    1884–1972    
1949    Winston Churchill     UK    1874–1965    Man of the half-century
1950    The American fighting-man     USA       Representing Korean War troops
1951    Mohammed Mossadegh     Iran    1882–1967    
1952    Queen Elizabeth II    [n 1]    1926–    
1953    Konrad Adenauer     West Germany    1876–1967    
1954    John Foster Dulles     USA    1888–1959    
1955    Harlow Curtice     USA    1893–1962    
1956    The Hungarian freedom fighter     Hungary       
1957    Nikita Khrushchev     USSR    1894–1971    
1958    Charles de Gaulle     France    1890–1970    
1959    Dwight D. Eisenhower     USA    1890–1969    
1960    American scientists     USA       Represented by George Beadle, Charles Draper, John Enders, Donald A. Glaser, Joshua Lederberg, Willard Libby, Linus Pauling, Edward Purcell, Isidor Rabi, Emilio Segrè, William Shockley, Edward Teller, Charles Townes, James Van Allen, and Robert Woodward
1961    John F. Kennedy     USA    1917–1963    
1962    Pope John XXIII     Holy See/ Italy    1881–1963    
1963    Martin Luther King, Jr.     USA    1929–1968    
1964    Lyndon B. Johnson     USA    1908–1973    
1965    William Westmoreland     USA    1914–2005    
1966    Baby boomers          
1967    Lyndon B. Johnson     USA    1908–1973    
1968    The Apollo 8 astronauts     USA       William Anders, Frank Borman, and Jim Lovell
1969    The middle Americans     USA       Also referred to as the Silent Majority[8]
1970    Willy Brandt     West Germany    1913–1992    
1971    Richard Nixon     USA    1913–1994    
1972    Richard Nixon     USA    1913–1994    
Henry Kissinger     USA    1923–    
1973    John Sirica     USA    1904–1992    
1974    King Faisal     Saudi Arabia    1906–1975    
1975    American women     USA       Represented by Susan Brownmiller, Kathleen Byerly, Alison Cheek, Jill Conway, Betty Ford, Ella Grasso, Carla Hills, Barbara Jordan, Billie Jean King, Carol Sutton, Susie Sharp, and Addie Wyatt
1976    Jimmy Carter     USA    1924–    
1977    Anwar Sadat     Egypt    1918–1981    
1978    Deng Xiaoping     People's Republic of China    1904–1997    
1979    Ayatollah Khomeini     Iran    1902–1989    
1980    Ronald Reagan     USA    1911–2004    
1981    Lech Wałęsa     Poland    1943–    
1982    The Computer          Machine of the Year
1983    Ronald Reagan     USA    1911–2004    
Yuri Andropov     USSR    1914–1984    
1984    Peter Ueberroth     USA    1937–    
1985    Deng Xiaoping     People's Republic of China    1904–1997    
1986    Corazon C. Aquino     Philippines    1933–2009    
1987    Mikhail Gorbachev     USSR    1931–    
1988    The endangered Earth          Planet of the Year
1989    Mikhail Gorbachev     USSR    1931–    Man of the Decade
1990    George H. W. Bush     USA    1924–    
1991    Ted Turner     USA    1938–    
1992    Bill Clinton     USA    1946–    
1993    The Peacemakers     Palestine
 South Africa

 Israel       Represented by Yasser Arafat, F.W. de Klerk, Nelson Mandela, and Yitzhak Rabin
1994    Pope John Paul II     Holy See/ Poland    1920–2005    
1995    Newt Gingrich     USA    1943–    
1996    David Ho     Republic of China/ USA    1952–    
1997    Andy Grove     Hungary/ USA    1936–    
1998    Bill Clinton     USA    1946–    
Kenneth Starr     USA    1946–    
1999    Jeffrey P. Bezos     USA    1964–    See also: Person of the Century
2000    George W. Bush     USA    1946–    
2001    Rudolph Giuliani     USA    1944–    
2002    The Whistleblowers     USA       Represented by Cynthia Cooper (WorldCom), Coleen Rowley (FBI) and Sherron Watkins (Enron)
2003    The American soldier     USA       
2004    George W. Bush     USA    1946–    
2005    The Good Samaritans     Ireland
 USA       Represented by Bono, Bill Gates, and Melinda Gates
2006    You[9]          Represented by the individual content creator on the World Wide Web
2007    Vladimir Putin[10]     Russia    1952–    
2008    Barack Obama[11]     USA    1961–    
2009    Ben Bernanke[12]     USA    1953–    
2010    Mark Zuckerberg[13]     USA    1984–    

Real bunch of winners there.
Title: Re: HBO mini-series (war movies)
Post by: Badgersmilk on June 15, 2011, 12:05:49 PM
"No Simple Victory"  Good book.  Written from a European perspective.  NOT light, quick reading.  Good though.  There's a great deal of other documentation on how the jewish business community was impacting the German economy durring those years as well.  But the book is a good start.

IF I'm "ant-Semitic", it's ONLY because I'm sick to death of the whining.  Enough already.  My point is, and will remain.  You don't see anybody else (Fins, Pol's, whoever) still crying like the world owes them.  We're talking from WWII, not the civil war here.  That's a whole other story, and people are just as sick of their "Poor little me.  I heard somebody in my family suffered generations ago.."  BS to  :'( :'( :'(

Don't really care what race you are, religion, or anything else.  If something happened to a relative OVER 70 YEARS ago...  QUIT USING IT AS AN EXCUSE TO DEMAND PITY AND SPECIAL TREATMENT!!!   ::)  And then have the nuts to wonder why people continue to hate you!   :o

Bit of a paradox, but if only for the incessant whining the world has had to endure following the holocaust, I have no pity for the jewish victims.  The Pol's?  Yes, what they had to endur was unjust and awful.  I'm sorry such a thing ever had to befall them.  Do I have anything against the jewish religion in particular?  No, believe what you want!   ;)

But again, Stalin makes Hitler look like Mary Poppins!  Nobody says a WORD about Stalin.  Why?
Title: Re: HBO mini-series (war movies)
Post by: tombogan03884 on June 15, 2011, 08:11:40 PM
"No Simple Victory"  Good book.  Written from a European perspective.  NOT light, quick reading.  Good though.  There's a great deal of other documentation on how the jewish business community was impacting the German economy durring those years as well.  But the book is a good start.

IF I'm "ant-Semitic", it's ONLY because I'm sick to death of the whining.  Enough already.  My point is, and will remain.  You don't see anybody else (Fins, Pol's, whoever) still crying like the world owes them.  We're talking from WWII, not the civil war here.  That's a whole other story, and people are just as sick of their "Poor little me.  I heard somebody in my family suffered generations ago.."  BS to  :'( :'( :'(

Don't really care what race you are, religion, or anything else.  If something happened to a relative OVER 70 YEARS ago...  QUIT USING IT AS AN EXCUSE TO DEMAND PITY AND SPECIAL TREATMENT!!!   ::)  And then have the nuts to wonder why people continue to hate you!   :o

Bit of a paradox, but if only for the incessant whining the world has had to endure following the holocaust, I have no pity for the jewish victims.  The Pol's?  Yes, what they had to endur was unjust and awful.  I'm sorry such a thing ever had to befall them.  Do I have anything against the jewish religion in particular?  No, believe what you want!   ;)

But again, Stalin makes Hitler look like Mary Poppins!  Nobody says a WORD about Stalin.  Why?

He made TIME  Man of the Year twice.
Title: Re: HBO mini-series (war movies)
Post by: Timothy on June 15, 2011, 08:28:27 PM
He made TIME  Man of the Year twice.

And....we give a f..k what Time magazine says why?

Time doesn't pass for good toilet paper!
Title: Re: HBO mini-series (war movies)
Post by: tombogan03884 on June 15, 2011, 11:56:47 PM
And....we give a f..k what Time magazine says why?

Time doesn't pass for good toilet paper!

You haven't been paying attention , have you ?
BM, was basically saying Hitler couldn't have been that bad, Time named him man of the century, I posted the whole list to illustrate that Time generally picks dictators, crooks and other scum bags as their man of the year, They pick Uncle Joe twice.
Title: Re: HBO mini-series (war movies)
Post by: Timothy on June 16, 2011, 04:08:08 AM
You haven't been paying attention , have you ?
BM, was basically saying Hitler couldn't have been that bad, Time named him man of the century, I posted the whole list to illustrate that Time generally picks dictators, crooks and other scum bags as their man of the year, They pick Uncle Joe twice.

I was tired.  Worked 12 hours yesterday.....0-Dark:30 came way too early...

Carry on!

 :D
Title: Re: HBO mini-series (war movies)
Post by: Badgersmilk on June 24, 2011, 11:04:08 AM
Watching disc 3 of "The Pacific"...  It's GOOD.  But falls way off the mark of "Band of Brothers".  Took me a while to figure out why.  

1. EVERY weapon in the movie is cleaner than the ones in my gun cabinet right now!  SPOTLESS!  Even the tanks.  All having supposedly been in combat on a desert island for weeks.  Or being carried out of a muddy disaster of a beach landing.   :-\

2. Nobody sweats.  Weeks of heavy, hard core, combat.  Other than a little dust, maybe a few drips on their brow, they just don't look much the worse for wear.   :-\

3. And worst of all.  They rushed the first episode.  Didn't develop the characters like they should have.  You just don't feel anything for them.  If it's the main characters or the enemies getting killed it's no different.   :-\

Just started episode 6.  Look at those guns shine!   :(  This one is MUCH more believable than the first 5 though.

No matter what the conditions are, the lighting always looks the same.  White flourecent.   :(

Isn't that ALL producer stuff?  Spielburg and Hanks!  What happened?   ???

WELL WORTH WATCHING!  Not spending $ to buy though IMO.  Thank you netflix!  

Generation Kill may be better.

HBO needs to hire on Guy Ritchy for a war movie.  THAT would be epic! 

Movies don't get any better than his work.  "Snatch" is a favorite of everybody I know that's seen it.


Title: Re: HBO mini-series (war movies)
Post by: tombogan03884 on June 24, 2011, 03:06:20 PM
Actually BM, it was filmed on Pelilua  ( spell check is no help on the island name  ;D  )
Title: Re: HBO mini-series (war movies)
Post by: pioneer on June 28, 2011, 11:58:08 AM
Get "The Pacific" ! You will NOT be sorry !
I only caught one technical error, at Guadalcanal the Marines were still using the flat "Tommy" style helmets, but in the series they have regular "pot's".  Weapons are accurate, although you don't see any more Water cooled machine guns after the Guadalcanal episodes.

I bought The Pacific last weekend and just finished part 4.  Great investment.  It is something I'm going to watch several times, because there is so much going on, it's easy to miss something.  So far, only one other technical error that I've seen.  During a battle scene, a Marine called for a "medic."  Medics are in the Army.  The US Marine Corps has Navy Hospital Corpsmen.  (Which our current Commander-In-Chief calls "corpse-men.)
Title: Re: HBO mini-series (war movies)
Post by: tombogan03884 on June 28, 2011, 12:35:50 PM
Good catch, the name dates back to the 1st WW.
Title: Re: HBO mini-series (war movies)
Post by: Badgersmilk on June 30, 2011, 06:55:39 PM
If your interested in accurate documentary I'd say forget The HBO productions completely.  There's just to much actual footage available at FAARR lower prices.  I picked this up, and started watching a little of it today.

http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww40/BigCheeseStick/P1020230.jpg (http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww40/BigCheeseStick/P1020230.jpg)

Something I notice more and more watching the old black and white, actual war footage is that (unlike in the movies) you don't see more than two soldiers equipped the same hardly EVER.  Doesn't matter what country their with either.  Something else I'd heard a LOT about from WWII veterans I've spoke with, and am seeing in this footage.  Is the use of the old WWI trench knives.

When coming out of combat in the actual footage you see enemy rifles slung over the shoulders of at least half the troops (duh, why not!).

I finished watching episode 8 of "The Pacific" yesterday.  Almost completely a story about a couple in love...  Loosing interest in the whole production fast.   :(  

As far as "WWII", almost best to turn off the audio and just watch the footage.  The first disc was all U.S. propoganda material filled with childish insults against ALL Germans.  To be expected for the time period.  Good little history lesson on the beginning of Prussian government and Bismark in there though!
Title: Re: HBO mini-series (war movies)
Post by: tombogan03884 on June 30, 2011, 10:42:12 PM
I will grant you that the episode about Basilone and the cook Sgt he married was  not very interesting.
Wait till you get to the next 2 though.